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Old February 24th, 2014, 09:27 PM   #7421
bogdymol
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Don't read Wikipedia anymore. At least not the part about Romanian infrastructure.

If you can read Dutch I recommend you wegenwiki.nl, which is quite up to date.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:19 PM   #7422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicu' de garda View Post
Le Clerk, that link you provided states absolutely nothing Nadlac-Arad lot 2, for which the contract was CANCELLED. It doesn't state much at all, actually... It doesn't even make sense!? Why would a court require this contract to be freezed indefinitely for such a procedure, especially when it isn't even in the company's responsbility anymore?? None of the other users with more know-how on the matter (and a lot more credibility) have stated such a thing, you are the only one to come up with this idea? Why is that?

I've read roumours about CNADNR waiting a bit for Astaldi to set up it's base for lot 1 in the area, so that it can secure an easy win with a lower price for the other lot, using the same concrete and asfalt facilities for both. It doesn't sound fair, and it's not very legal, but knowing our goverment, this is an idea that might just be real.
Let's start our civil arguments this way: you are a BS and your arguments are BS accross the line. Then lay down some rumours and hear-say. Would that work fine for you?!

I told you how the law goes. Take it or leave it. I don't have other info, let alone rumours.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:42 PM   #7423
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There's a difference between stating some rumours which one has read over the forums, and aknowledging them as mere rumours, as opposed to engaging into a debate over "breaching the law for reasons of efficiencies" because of some half-understood legal paperwork and a document presented as proof that stated absolutely nothing about the topic in question! On that sole shred of (poor) info you created an entire theory that you then present to the international forum and engage users that don't buy it? Especially when none of the users with a far better understanding of the legal system ever hinted the idea. Bogdymol even proved you were talking about a different company than the one in question.


For a user with such a big history and experience on this forum, one would expect some caution in writing crazy unverified ideas. And the ability to admit to being proven wrong when such is the case... Especially with such a poor record of presenting incorect an unreliable info on the forum.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:44 PM   #7424
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@bogdymol
If there is more detailed info on the actual route, I would add them. At the moment I'm still busy with the article on the A1 in the German Wikipadia (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Padmichi/A1)
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:48 PM   #7425
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You can find detailed up-to-date information regarding Romanian motorways development in Motorways - Index and Statistics thread. There you can check information about every motorway section that's opened, under construction or planned. Posts in that thread are updated constantly with the newest info.
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:54 PM   #7426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
That article is about the insolvency procedure of SC Alpine SA, the Romanian branch of Alpine Bau GmbH (Alpine Austria). The contract for construction of Nadlac-Arad, lot 2, motorway, was signed with Alpine Bau GmbH (directly with Alpine Austria). Alpine Romania basically worked as a subcontractor for Alpine Austria, so they don't have anything to do directly with the construction contract.

I don't see anywhere in that article stated anything about Nadlac-Arad, lot 2 motorway. Where's that "after insolvency procedures will end, they can re tender the construction" that you stated before?

More, in Serbia they already re tendered a motorway section that was initally awarded to Alpine. So they didn't have to wait until insolvency procedures were completed. See here.
WTF!? Of course, the insolvency procedures for the Romanian-registered Alpine firm is run under the Romanian law, while the insolvency of the Austrian-Alpine firm is run under the Austrian law!

PS: I do not know the insolvency law in Serbia. Do you?
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:55 PM   #7427
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Thank you, this info I've gathered me of the CNADNR website. Example in this Google Drive Table (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mc&usp=sharing).
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Old February 24th, 2014, 10:56 PM   #7428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medicu' de garda View Post
There's a difference between stating some rumours which one has read over the forums, and aknowledging them as mere rumours, as opposed to engaging into a debate over "breaching the law for reasons of efficiencies" because of some half-understood legal paperwork and a document presented as proof that stated absolutely nothing about the topic in question! On that sole shred of (poor) info you created an entire theory that you then present to the international forum and engage users that don't buy it? Especially when none of the users with a far better understanding of the legal system ever hinted the idea. Bogdymol even proved you were talking about a different company than the one in question.


For a user with such a big history and experience on this forum, one would expect some caution in writing crazy unverified ideas. And the ability to admit to being proven wrong when such is the case... Especially with such a poor record of presenting incorect an unreliable info on the forum.
Do you have any better arguments than repeating BS rumours and innuendos?!
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Old February 24th, 2014, 11:09 PM   #7429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
You can find detailed up-to-date information regarding Romanian motorways development in Motorways - Index and Statistics thread. There you can check information about every motorway section that's opened, under construction or planned. Posts in that thread are updated constantly with the newest info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padmichi View Post
Thank you, this info I've gathered me of the CNADNR website. Example in this Google Drive Table (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...mc&usp=sharing).
What's the latest and most likely accurate info for completion of Orăștie - Sibiu lot 3 (Cunta – Saliste): September 2014, October 2014 or Late 2014?
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Old February 24th, 2014, 11:17 PM   #7430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
WTF!? Of course, the insolvency procedures for the Romanian-registered Alpine firm is run under the Romanian law, while the insolvency of the Austrian-Alpine firm is run under the Austrian law!

PS: I do not know the insolvency law in Serbia. Do you?
Let's make it clear:
  1. Romanian Government signed a contract with Alpine Austria for building a motorway
  2. Alpine Austria built 85% of it and got the money for this 85% (Alpine Romania worked as a sub-contractor on that construction site).
  3. Alpine Austria went into insolvency, and the Romanian Government canceled the motorway construction contract; The construction site is now under administration of the Romanian Government (they even hired a private security company for that motorway section).
  4. Alpine Austria went completely bankrupt (insolvency is over, now they are bankrupt).
  5. Alpine Romania, which has nothing to do with the motorway construction contract, went into insolvency
  6. Romanian Government wants to completed that motorway section (from 85% to 100%), so it will re-tender that motorway section soon.

I guess everyone agrees with what I wrote above.

Now, LeClerk, please state a source for what are you saying:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
before any retendering procedure can be started, the insolvency procedures need to be completed according to the law.
You are the only person I ever heard to say this. Since Alpine insolvency I read all the news in the Romanian media regarding this subject and I've never seen anyone declaring anything like that. Even the Romanian CNADNR (National Road Company) says that they are preparing the re-tender of that motorway section, without mentioning anything about Alpine insolvency procedures (check here, answer to question 4).
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Old February 24th, 2014, 11:19 PM   #7431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
What's the latest and most likely accurate info for completion of Orăștie - Sibiu lot 3 (Cunta – Saliste): September 2014, October 2014 or Late 2014?
Politicians stated all of the dates you mentioned. I think it's safe to say it will be opened by the end of the year (maybe September, maybe December, I don't know).
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Old February 24th, 2014, 11:28 PM   #7432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Let's make it clear:
  1. Romanian Government signed a contract with Alpine Austria for building a motorway
  2. Alpine Austria built 85% of it and got the money for this 85% (Alpine Romania worked as a sub-contractor on that construction site).
  3. Alpine Austria went into insolvency, and the Romanian Government canceled the motorway construction contract; The construction site is now under administration of the Romanian Government (they even hired a private security company for that motorway section).
  4. Alpine Austria went completely bankrupt (insolvency is over, now they are bankrupt).
  5. Alpine Romania, which has nothing to do with the motorway construction contract, went into insolvency
  6. Romanian Government wants to completed that motorway section (from 85% to 100%), so it will re-tender that motorway section soon.

I guess everyone agrees with what I wrote above.

Now, LeClerk, please state a source for what are you saying:



You are the only person I ever heard to say this. Since Alpine insolvency I read all the news in the Romanian media regarding this subject and I've never seen anyone declaring anything like that. Even the Romanian CNADNR (National Road Company) says that they are preparing the re-tender of that motorway section, without mentioning anything about Alpine insolvency procedures (check here, answer to question 4).

Why does everyone assume that what happens in Austria as a legal procedure, or in Romania for the Austrian subsidiary, would be completely foreign to Romanian authorities?! In the end, both Romania and Austria are in the EU, and they would normally be subject to joint procedures under the EU law, or would they?! Why Serbia then have to be similar since they are not a EU member yet?!

The fact that one authority does not mention the reasons for not tendering Arad-Nadlac lot 2, while they have retendered Arad-Nadlac lot 1 (accidently not in an insolvency procedure, especially under procedings in 2 different EU members), does it ring any bells?!

End of here. \
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Old February 24th, 2014, 11:33 PM   #7433
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You are just stating suppositions, not facts. I asked for a source for your so-called-facts for the last 3 days, but you couldn't provide one. Excuse me for not believing your statements.

I'll stop this debate here because I see we can't reach an agreement. If you provide a reliable source for "no re-tender until insolvency is over" I'll assume my mistake. If not, please assume that you were wrong on this one.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 01:00 AM   #7434
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According to the wiki the Alpina contract has been "terminated". Just saying!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_moto....E2.80.93_Arad
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Old February 25th, 2014, 01:10 AM   #7435
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medicu' de garda, bogdymol

both of you are wrong :-)

if I am not mistaken Le Clerk is an attorney (this is what his profile says), so no, it is impossible he is not familiar with the law, otherwise the law must be adjusted immediately to be in compliance with Le Clerk findings.
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Old February 25th, 2014, 02:23 PM   #7436
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Le Clerk, before trying to further "explain" your theory (and continuing to bring no proof whatsoever), please explain the following: lot 1 of Brasov ringroad is being retendered as we speak (the winner supposed to be announced this month), after it was cancelled almost 1 year ago. Guess who was the original contractor for that one? Yup, Alpine Bau, the same builder on Nadlac-Arad lot 2. Both contracts were terminated at the same time for the same reason: bankruptcy.

So one project was quickly reevaluated and retendered with no problems, while the other is still on hold for, as you claim, some bogus, unheard of common EU law (??) insolvency procedures for a company that went BANKRUPT . Besides the logic fail, could you please explain why is one contract more special than the other? I'd love to know
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Old February 25th, 2014, 02:27 PM   #7437
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I forgot about Brasov bypass contract. Thanks medicu' de garda!
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Old February 26th, 2014, 02:47 PM   #7438
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Short news article: General Transport Master Plan, completed by April
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:26 PM   #7439
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What are the current plans for A3 west of Cluj-Napoca? If I'm correct there is currently no construction going on, right?
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Old February 27th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #7440
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The contract for the 9km section was signed but works have not yet started, see here.
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