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Old July 20th, 2015, 07:57 PM   #8341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seszele View Post
I am aware there's a lot of jokes about Moldovians in Romania, but indeed sooo many fools out there?



Seriously thou, in my opinion as a traveller to Romania - Sibiu-Pitesti must be finished asap same with Bors-Cluj, so the Germonies may pour freely into Romania's economy with a great benefit to the country hopefully.
Sibiu-Pitesti is priority 0 for the coming years, and will probably be built by 2020. This was mentioned a few times here.

Quote:
Connecting Moldova is important as well, also due to country of Moldova possible merge with Romania and EU. But from my experience express way all along would be sufficient there.
Only wondering why to build Tg. Neamt-Iasi as a full motorway, if they're both connected thru expressway to Bucarest and rest of the country anyway?
Unless there are any plans for connecting Tg. Neamt with Cluj or Tg. Mures
That's the point, isn't it? To connect NE NUTS2 region with the European markets. That is why that motorway section in in TEN-T core - because it is not a joke. It is important to connect it to Bucharest, and also to western European markets. An expressway would not be much cheaper than a motorway.

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Old July 20th, 2015, 11:23 PM   #8342
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Thanks , now it all makes sense to me finally
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Old July 20th, 2015, 11:50 PM   #8343
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Originally Posted by pasadia View Post
There are plans to conect Tg Neamt with Tg. Mures (and beyond that towards Cluj and Oradea - Bors - Hungary) with a highway - A8 named.

But they intend to build first the section from Iasi towards west (up until Pacani or Tagu Neamt), since that road is quite congested.

Targu Mures - Targu Neamt is planned beyond 2020 (2022), and I will be glad is it will be half-profile first. Full highway I don't think will be needed before 2040.

But, as I said before: a connection through western Ukraine towards Lvov and Krakow will do exactly the same thing and probably there will be a time when Roumania and Poland will start developing that.
Taking into account the dates you just mentioned, we may assume it would be alternative worth considering at least, especially it is renewing once vivid route that used to be also a shortest one at times Poland and Romania shared a border ( Zaleszczyki road was the one Polish government and part of our troops were evacuated in September 1939).

But having in mind actual politics and economics in Ukraine it will take next 20 years from now, if situation will start improving tomorrow. But so in case of Moldavian-Romanian Reunion, perspective for both might be quite in tact and paralel.


Anyway being from Krakow, having family in Lwów and travelling to Romania several times before and soon again I may only dream to use such a superb direct option
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Old July 21st, 2015, 12:04 AM   #8344
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Originally Posted by seszele View Post
Anyway being from Krakow, having family in Lwów and travelling to Romania several times before and soon again I may only dream to use such a superb direct option
In the Ukrainian road forum at least an improvement of the Lwów-Ivano Frankivsk (Stanislav) section was posted. No clue what are the plans from there further south...
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Old July 21st, 2015, 12:57 AM   #8345
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[RO] Romania | road infrastructure • autostrăzi şi drumuri

I don't think Pitesti-Sibiu is a good idea. I agree that Bucharest needs a motorway connection to Western Europe, so for that I would build A6 via Slatina, DTS, Lugoj, with expressway connections to Pitesti, Craiova and Calafat. This route would also be the beginning of a better connection to Belgrade.
A3 is also needed, as the mountain section between Sinaia and Predeal is overcrowded, and can draw a lot more tourists than any section between Pitesti and Sibiu, and also to create a good connection between Bucharest and Ploiesti, Brasov, Targu Mures, Cluj and then finally to Oradea and eventually Hungary.
Once reached Sibiu the A1 should then go towards Fagaras and connect to the A3.
The A3 would also be useful as a starting point for improved connections to the northern and eastern parts of Romania.
I really hope the Romanian governments plans of building Comarnic-Brasov will be at the expense of Pitesti-Sibiu.
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Last edited by Samply; July 21st, 2015 at 01:03 AM.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 07:21 AM   #8346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seszele View Post
Taking into account the dates you just mentioned, we may assume it would be alternative worth considering at least, especially it is renewing once vivid route that used to be also a shortest one at times Poland and Romania shared a border ( Zaleszczyki road was the one Polish government and part of our troops were evacuated in September 1939).

But having in mind actual politics and economics in Ukraine it will take next 20 years from now, if situation will start improving tomorrow. But so in case of Moldavian-Romanian Reunion, perspective for both might be quite in tact and paralel.


Anyway being from Krakow, having family in Lwów and travelling to Romania several times before and soon again I may only dream to use such a superb direct option
Iasi is second city in Romania in terms of population after Bucharest. It is also a very strong university city. It needs connection to the European network of motorways, and the shortest is through Tg Mures, which connects Iasi both to A1 and A3.

On the other hand, Romania is Moldova's gate to Europe, including economically, and in terms of EU integration. Moldova's trade with Europe is made through Romania. Taking into account that lately, for various reasons, most of the trade is made with the EU, and Romania especially (in 2014 Romania alone was the biggest trade partner, for Moldova, bigger than all CIS countries together, Russia included), then a motorway connecting Chisinau, and Iasi makes even a bigger sense. There is actually a lobby for this motorway in Moldova, because it is pretty clear for them that their economic and political welfare lies in the EU and in Romania. If they will get in the EU alone (never) or through accession to Romania as DDR entered the EU through FRG without the accession process (most probably, as they are already internalizing EU standards and legislation by copy-pasting Romanian laws and institutions), it is another matter. But in both cases, a motorway Iasi-Tg Mures is needed. Romania is already building energy infrastructure connecting Moldova to the EU, so a motorway is only logical.
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Last edited by Le Clerk; July 21st, 2015 at 07:45 AM.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 07:27 AM   #8347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
I don't think Pitesti-Sibiu is a good idea. I agree that Bucharest needs a motorway connection to Western Europe, so for that I would build A6 via Slatina, DTS, Lugoj, with expressway connections to Pitesti, Craiova and Calafat. This route would also be the beginning of a better connection to Belgrade.
A3 is also needed, as the mountain section between Sinaia and Predeal is overcrowded, and can draw a lot more tourists than any section between Pitesti and Sibiu, and also to create a good connection between Bucharest and Ploiesti, Brasov, Targu Mures, Cluj and then finally to Oradea and eventually Hungary.
Once reached Sibiu the A1 should then go towards Fagaras and connect to the A3.
The A3 would also be useful as a starting point for improved connections to the northern and eastern parts of Romania.
I really hope the Romanian governments plans of building Comarnic-Brasov will be at the expense of Pitesti-Sibiu.

Let's not get into this again. This discussion is at least 2 years old in Romania, and we got passed it. Comarnic-Brasov will not get built at the expense of Sibiu-Pitesti, which benefits from EU funds and is required by the EU. Pitesti-Sibiu will get built by 2020, and most probably we'll see the sections at both ends in works next year - same as Comarnic-Brasov at its extreme ends. Ideally, both Comarnic-Brasov and Sibiu-Pitesti will be completed by 2020, but I would say Sibiu-Pitesti has better chances, because it has the financing available, even though it is double the lenght of Comarnic-Brasov.

Comarnic-Brasov is exclusively an internal use motorway and a connection between Bucharest and Brasov and further to Cluj. It will make the backbone of the most developed cities in Romania: Bucharest-Brasov-Cluj.

Sibiu-Pitesti is a mixed internal and international use motorway. It is also the most truck crowded section of road in Romania.

A6 is important but not as important as Sibiu-Pitesti or Comarnic-Brasov or even Ungheni-Iasi-Tg Neamt, and that is why it has been downgraded in the masterplan and will probably be built after 2020. This is also because A6 competes with A1 for traffic, and because there's not enough money to take up all these new routes.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 08:21 AM   #8348
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Isn't A6 Lugoj - Calafat also on EU corridor and 85% financed from EU?
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Old July 21st, 2015, 08:46 AM   #8349
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Yes it is. Both A6 and A8 are. But A6 has been downgraded well below A8 in the masterplan as a secondary priority. Mostly because it doubles A1. And because Craiova-Pitesti is planned by 2020, which is also TENT.






Lugoj-Drobeta-Craiova appear as expressways but they have a low ranking.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 09:31 AM   #8350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theijs View Post
In the Ukrainian road forum at least an improvement of the Lwów-Ivano Frankivsk (Stanislav) section was posted. No clue what are the plans from there further south...

I took this route once already and besides tourism there is no reason to choose this option now. Custom clearance consumes far to much time and you need to take it twice. Combined 5 hours in my case. Plus the roads are quite slow down from Lwów and Stanisławów ( IFRankowsk). Also Cherniovce- Suceava takes ages.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 09:36 AM   #8351
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[RO] Romania | road infrastructure • autostrăzi şi drumuri

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Iasi is second city in Romania in terms of population after Bucharest. It is also a very strong university city. It needs connection to the European network of motorways, and the shortest is through Tg Mures, which connects Iasi both to A1 and A3.

On the other hand, Romania is Moldova's gate to Europe, including economically, and in terms of EU integration. Moldova's trade with Europe is made through Romania. Taking into account that lately, for various reasons, most of the trade is made with the EU, and Romania especially (in 2014 Romania alone was the biggest trade partner, for Moldova, bigger than all CIS countries together, Russia included), then a motorway connecting Chisinau, and Iasi makes even a bigger sense. There is actually a lobby for this motorway in Moldova, because it is pretty clear for them that their economic and political welfare lies in the EU and in Romania. If they will get in the EU alone (never) or through accession to Romania as DDR entered the EU through FRG without the accession process (most probably, as they are already internalizing EU standards and legislation by copy-pasting Romanian laws and institutions), it is another matter. But in both cases, a motorway Iasi-Tg Mures is needed. Romania is already building energy infrastructure connecting Moldova to the EU, so a motorway is only logical.

No doubt here. Moldova ( both Romanian and the state) must be connected to EU with most direct access in order to prosper and stick to Western world. Only 2030-35 as a deadline for completion seems so far from now unfortunately
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Old July 21st, 2015, 10:12 AM   #8352
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Tg Mures-Iasi will be completed by 2025 most probably. It's phased over 2 EU budgetary cycles: Ungheni-Iasi-Tg Neamt by 2020, and Tg Neamt-Tg Mures 2020-2027.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 10:27 AM   #8353
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Tg Mures-Iasi will be completed by 2025 most probably. It's phased over 2 EU budgetary cycles: Ungheni-Iasi-Tg Neamt by 2020, and Tg Neamt-Tg Mures 2020-2027.
keep my fingers crossed for that

BTW for the map you posted above; how about corridors to Bulgaria from Craiova and from Constanca respectively. Any plans for those?
Seems like Craiova southbound shall be a nice bypass of problematic route thru Serbia and Macedonia and I think EU pressures for'em, don't they?
It could generate a nice portion of extra income for Romanian authorities because of large amount of cargo traffic heading down to Turkey.
Also routing thru Bucarest will pump a lot of unnecessary transit traffic thru its ringroads (even when upgraded to A or Express in the future).

Last edited by seszele; July 21st, 2015 at 11:02 AM. Reason: ehh
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Old July 21st, 2015, 10:35 AM   #8354
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That's the discussion about A6, which is scheduled for the 2020-2027 EU cycle. It's a very expensive route (over EUR 4 B) and it also crosses mountains.

Once Craiova-Pitesti will be ready (hopefully by 2020), a lot of traffic coming from the Balkans and Asia will take that route, by-passing Bucharest. This is also how A1 becomes a functional alternative to A6.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 10:50 AM   #8355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seszele View Post
keep my fingers crossed for that

BTW for the map you posted above; how about corridors to Bulgaria from Craiova and from Constanca respectively. Any plans for those?
Seems like Craiova southbound shall be a nice overpass of problematic route thru Serbia and Macedonia and I think EU pressures for'em, don't they?
It could generate a nice portion of extra income for Romanian authorities because of large amount of cargo traffic heading down to Turkey.
Also routing thru Bucarest will pump a lot of unnecessary transit traffic thru its ringroads (even when upgraded to A or Express in the future).
why problematic?
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Old July 21st, 2015, 11:00 AM   #8356
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'cause of border crossings only, still outside EU.
Route itself is very smooth thou

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That's the discussion about A6, which is scheduled for the 2020-2027 EU cycle. It's a very expensive route (over EUR 4 B) and it also crosses mountains.

Once Craiova-Pitesti will be ready (hopefully by 2020), a lot of traffic coming from the Balkans and Asia will take that route, by-passing Bucharest. This is also how A1 becomes a functional alternative to A6.
any clue for Craiova -Bulgarian border part of A6?

Last edited by seszele; July 21st, 2015 at 11:06 AM.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 11:12 AM   #8357
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Quote:
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That's the discussion about A6, which is scheduled for the 2020-2027 EU cycle. It's a very expensive route (over EUR 4 B) and it also crosses mountains.

Once Craiova-Pitesti will be ready (hopefully by 2020), a lot of traffic coming from the Balkans and Asia will take that route, by-passing Bucharest. This is also how A1 becomes a functional alternative to A6.

Yeah, right. Tomorrow it will cost over EUR 6B. And so on. Do you recognize a pattern?
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Old July 21st, 2015, 11:23 AM   #8358
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'cause of border crossings only, still outside EU.
Route itself is very smooth thou
you have border crossing between BG an RO and Ro and H
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Old July 21st, 2015, 11:26 AM   #8359
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Yeah, right. Tomorrow it will cost over EUR 6B. And so on. Do you recognize a pattern?
Exactly. That's why Romania should stop discussing and start building.

It's much better to have one or two motorways/decent transit routs through the mountains by 2025 than status quo.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 11:29 AM   #8360
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Yeah, right. Tomorrow it will cost over EUR 6B. And so on. Do you recognize a pattern?
No, it will not cost over 6 B. Lugoj-Craiova expressway is estimated at ~ EUR 2 B in masterplan. But nowhere you have an estimate of Craiova-Calafat or Drobeta-Calafat motorway? connection, and how much that will cost. I agree though that EUR 4 B may in the end come down to EUR 3 B, or even less, even if it will be a full profile motorway probably.
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