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Old July 21st, 2015, 11:31 AM   #8361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seszele View Post


any clue for Craiova -Bulgarian border part of A6?
For now, an upgrade to Eurotrans road is planned.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 11:31 AM   #8362
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@Le Clerk, I think it's cheaper to build a road today than in 2030. Prices will increase, maybe standards will increase,......
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
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Old July 21st, 2015, 11:37 AM   #8363
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No, it will not cost over 6 B. Lugoj-Craiova expressway is estimated at ~ EUR 2 B in masterplan. But nowhere you have an estimate of Craiova-Calafat or Drobeta-Calafat motorway? connection, and how much that will cost. I agree though that EUR 4 B may in the end come down to EUR 3 B, or even less, even if it will be a full profile motorway probably.
It's in the masterplan. 2.4B euro for Lugoj - Craiova and 400mln euro for Craiova - Calafat.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 01:00 PM   #8364
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I didn't spot Craiova-Calafat în the masterplan. But it still takes us to EUR 3 B over all, which is much more than the entire EU allocation for România for motorways in this financiar cycle. It'd probably conflict with financing for Sibiu-Pitești at that amount.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 01:45 PM   #8365
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Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
@Le Clerk, I think it's cheaper to build a road today than in 2030. Prices will increase, maybe standards will increase,......
Maybe. But A6 is phased after 2020 . Together with Tg Mures-Tg Neamt from A8.
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Old July 21st, 2015, 01:57 PM   #8366
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I quote all relevant posts to show what I think

Quote:
Originally Posted by adymartianul View Post
Yeah, right. Tomorrow it will cost over EUR 6B. And so on. Do you recognize a pattern?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
Exactly. That's why Romania should stop discussing and start building.

It's much better to have one or two motorways/decent transit routs through the mountains by 2025 than status quo
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
No, it will not cost over 6 B. Lugoj-Craiova expressway is estimated at ~ EUR 2 B in masterplan. But nowhere you have an estimate of Craiova-Calafat or Drobeta-Calafat motorway? connection, and how much that will cost. I agree though that EUR 4 B may in the end come down to EUR 3 B, or even less, even if it will be a full profile motorway probably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
@Le Clerk, I think it's cheaper to build a road today than in 2030. Prices will increase, maybe standards will increase,......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Maybe. But A6 is phased after 2020 . Together with Tg Mures-Tg Neamt from A8.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 11:00 AM   #8367
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Pitesti-Sibiu might be EU financed but the Romanian government has to come up with the money first, and the EU pays back to Romania only when the motorway is completed, correct?
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 12:01 PM   #8368
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That's the case with all EU funded projects. Pitesti-Sibiu is half the price and less than half the lenght of A6.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 12:17 PM   #8369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Let's not get into this again. This discussion is at least 2 years old in Romania, and we got passed it. Comarnic-Brasov will not get built at the expense of Sibiu-Pitesti, which benefits from EU funds and is required by the EU. Pitesti-Sibiu will get built by 2020, and most probably we'll see the sections at both ends in works next year - same as Comarnic-Brasov at its extreme ends. Ideally, both Comarnic-Brasov and Sibiu-Pitesti will be completed by 2020, but I would say Sibiu-Pitesti has better chances, because it has the financing available, even though it is double the lenght of Comarnic-Brasov.

Comarnic-Brasov is exclusively an internal use motorway and a connection between Bucharest and Brasov and further to Cluj. It will make the backbone of the most developed cities in Romania: Bucharest-Brasov-Cluj.

Sibiu-Pitesti is a mixed internal and international use motorway. It is also the most truck crowded section of road in Romania.

I'm a bit puzzled by your reply, because in reading it you seem to be making my point, except you seem to think that whatever the EU thinks, your country should blindly follow.
Firstly, how does the EU require that Pitesti-Sibiu be built, is Romania under any obligation to build it? If it doesn't what would the penalty be?

As you seem to agree, Pitesti-Sibiu would be good for the many lorries that cover this section, which basically means that unless you build it 2x3, it will end up being quite unpleasant for anyone else, and probably even dangerous.

You are wrong in stating that Comarnic-Brasov is an exclusively internal use motorway, as this section has the added value for tourism, whilst Pitesti-Sibiu is just a drag. Bucharest already has a motorway taking traffic to the seaside, now she needs a motorway taking her to the mountains.
I believe you also recognize the importance of the A3, although you seem to forget that it is also an international route as it would reach the Hungarian border after Oradea.

The A6 is the obvious choice for providing Bucharest with the fastest road connection to Western Europe, besides its obvious international importance, it would also allow Romania to show off and bring Western European tourists a lot closer to a beauty spot like portile de fier.

A3 and A6 together can be the backbone for an actual motorway/expressway network in Romania, they both have national, international, commercial and tourist value.

Building Pitesti-Sibiu will drain the state budget for a good 5 years just to build an unattractive stretch of lorries overtaking each other, it will have some commercial international value, but that's it.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 12:31 PM   #8370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
Firstly, how does the EU require that Pitesti-Sibiu be built, is Romania under any obligation to build it? If it doesn't what would the penalty be?
Maybe because someone else is financing it??
I doubt anyone from EU rich countries would oppose if Romania build its own motorway with their own money wherever they want.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 01:02 PM   #8371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
Firstly, how does the EU require that Pitesti-Sibiu be built, is Romania under any obligation to build it?
Romania made a proposal (project list with priorities), EU accepted it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
You are wrong in stating that Comarnic-Brasov is an exclusively internal use motorway
? LeClerk always claims Comarnic-Brasov is the most needed road in RO.

I think he called it internal, because it's not TEN Core network that means less EU funding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
The A6 is the obvious choice for providing Bucharest with the fastest road connection to Western Europe, besides its obvious international importance, it would also allow Romania to show off and bring Western European tourists a lot closer to a beauty spot like portile de fier.
A3 and A6 together can be the backbone for an actual motorway/expressway network in Romania, they both have national, international, commercial and tourist value.
I like the word "show off". That's what happened in RO. That's what you be stopped now!

There were a lot of discussion about priorities. I'm glad RO finally got a "masterplan" and they should implement it now. Building roads is much better than just discussing, changing masterplans, new FS, negotiation with EU about funding, discuss again, change again, FS,...

EU funding is available. RO should has to focus on building roads now! It's required for economy growth and road safety. It's much better to have one or two important route(s) completed instead of discussing which important route is more important than another route - especially the discussion about routes through the mountains. A6+A3 would be a good first step. Yes. A1+A8 would be a good first step. Yes. A6+A13 would be a good first step. Yes. But there is NO adequate road through the mountains at the moment......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
Building Pitesti-Sibiu will drain the state budget for a good 5 years just to build an unattractive stretch of lorries overtaking each other, it will have some commercial international value, but that's it.
A6 costs more than A1.
__________________

Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 01:14 PM   #8372
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Quote:
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Maybe because someone else is financing it??
I doubt anyone from EU rich countries would oppose if Romania build its own motorway with their own money wherever they want.

That's my point, just because the EU would finance it doesn't mean Romania has to build it.
Although it is of course a very strong incentive as Romania has limited funds to build the network it would need.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 01:42 PM   #8373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post

A6 costs more than A1.

Fine, I understand that, and I expect that will be the reason why Pitesti-Sibiu will be built rather than Comarnic-Brasov. At least you'll have an almost complete motorway connection between the port of Constanta and Western Europe (pending A0).

I agree that Comarnic-Brasov is of the highest priority in Romania, but I find it very hard to believe that it can be built at the same time as Pitesti-Sibiu.
There's no doubt that rather than talk it's time to continue building and at least complete the A1.

Regarding the showing off, all I mean is that I believe Romania still has a lot of unexpressed potential when it comes to tourism that a better road network could help in increasing.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 01:57 PM   #8374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
Fine, I understand that, and I expect that will be the reason why Pitesti-Sibiu will be built rather than Comarnic-Brasov. At least you'll have an almost complete motorway connection between the port of Constanta and Western Europe (pending A0).

I agree that Comarnic-Brasov is of the highest priority in Romania, but I find it very hard to believe that it can be built at the same time as Pitesti-Sibiu.
There's no doubt that rather than talk it's time to continue building and at least complete the A1.

Regarding the showing off, all I mean is that I believe Romania still has a lot of unexpressed potential when it comes to tourism that a better road network could help in increasing.
I think you are confusing A6 with A3.

A3 is being built in parallel with A1. Sibiu-Pitesti will be built in parallel with Comarnic-Brasov.

As for A6, it will be built after 2020. It is too expensive, and runs in parallel with A1. Craiova-Pitesti will also solve the need for A6 (for a while) and will delay probably A0 (after 2018-2020).
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 01:59 PM   #8375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post
Regarding the showing off, all I mean is that I believe Romania still has a lot of unexpressed potential when it comes to tourism that a better road network could help in increasing.
I talked to a colleague about 6 weeks ago. He had a week off and planned a trip from Stuttgart to Budapest (~900km). He was thinking about driving back through Hungaria and Slovenia but was not sure what to visit there. I told him, that Hungary is mostly flat and Slovenia has high tolls. I recommened that he could drive to Romania, it's not so far away but there are mountains and diversified landscape.....

He already drove to southern Italy, southern Spain, USA East-West,... with his Chinese wife, so Romania is not so far away........
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 02:41 PM   #8376
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and Slovenia has high tolls.
15€ for a week is high toll? It is high only if you drive throu. If you visit some places (Ljubljana, Bled etc) then is not so expensive. For example in Austria, if you go from Graz to Linz you will pay 13€ just for tunnels...
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 02:48 PM   #8377
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There are two corridors where tourists find themselves an overpriced trip through Slovenia, from Italy to Croatia via Koper and from Austria to Zagreb via Maribor.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:24 PM   #8378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samply View Post

Building Pitesti-Sibiu will drain the state budget for a good 5 years just to build an unattractive stretch of lorries overtaking each other, it will have some commercial international value, but that's it.
There's one more important thing to Sibiu-Pitesti, besides catering to the international and (important) national traffic. The industrial role of Sibiu-Pitesti, allowing Dacia (and Ford) to export to western European markets. This is no little matter and should not be discarded, because Dacia alone puts 2,200 trucks on roads weekly !! Ford puts less than that, but also adds up.
In addition, building Pitesti-Sibiu will give a boost to the automotive industry in SW Romania, by bringing even more automotive producers there.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:31 PM   #8379
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Dacia is no.1 and FORD no.3 of Romanian exporters, source.
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Which new motorways are currently under construction?
Which new motorways will be opened next?

See 'New motorway projects' thread

** Please help completing and updating of the list **

Been/driven: A, AND, B, CDN, CH, CZ, D, DK, E, EST, F, FIN, FL, GB, H, I, L, LV, LT, N, NL, P, PL, RO, S, SLO, USA (My cumulative travel mapping)

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:42 PM   #8380
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Yes. And there are a lot of automotive companies there.



http://www.capital.ro/top-50-cei-mai...-romaniei.html
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