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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:15 AM   #901
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I wonder if we'll be influent enough to include A4 under the EU subsidy, but I doubt.
I think competent politicians would be able to get a new west-east corridor (combining A3 and A4) on the EU-map. Only the cities Iasi, Bacau and Chisinau together already have about 1.2 million inhabitants. And the new political situation in the Rep. Moldova (a EU-friendly government)) could be a serious help. As the Romanian taxpayer is already punished for building the A3, it seems justified that the EU would offer a generous financial pack for the A4. But no, probably the Romanian politicians keep the population quiet with nice promises (as they always made) while they are focusing on the projects where they can easily put money in their own wallets right now.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:15 PM   #902
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What's the completion date of A1 around Sibiu?

Also, Gmaps already shows A3 between Turda and Targu Mures.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:22 PM   #903
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I think competent politicians would be able to get a new west-east corridor (combining A3 and A4) on the EU-map. Only the cities Iasi, Bacau and Chisinau together already have about 1.2 million inhabitants. And the new political situation in the Rep. Moldova (a EU-friendly government)) could be a serious help. As the Romanian taxpayer is already punished for building the A3, it seems justified that the EU would offer a generous financial pack for the A4. But no, probably the Romanian politicians keep the population quiet with nice promises (as they always made) while they are focusing on the projects where they can easily put money in their own wallets right now.
A3 opportunity discussions are useless already. It's good it is being built, yet it should have been built later on.

The problem with A4 and the connection between Transilvania and Moldova is that A4 has no logic without Autostrada Transilvania. And there lies the huge utility of Autostrada Transilvania.

Now comes the issue about EU financing. EU did not agree with Transilvania motorway and hence does not fund Transilvania motorway (which is funded entirely by governmental funds - about 0.5 BEUR/year). A4 is nowhere in the EU TEN-T corridors, yet. So the question is why would the EU fund it, when the EU WILL have to fund A5 and A7, part of Corridors IX and IV, in the coming EU budget cycle (2013-2020).

Most probably A4 will be a concession, the same as Comarnic-Brasov to be signed this month.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 01:23 PM   #904
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What's the completion date of A1 around Sibiu?

Also, Gmaps already shows A3 between Turda and Targu Mures.
A1 around Sibiu will be completed most probably this summer.

As for A3, the only portion U/C between Turda and Targu Mures is Turda-Campia Turzii section of around 10km. As for the other parts till Targu Mures, we are not sure even if construction will start this year.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:54 PM   #905
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A3 opportunity discussions are useless already. It's good it is being built, yet it should have been built later on.

The problem with A4 and the connection between Transilvania and Moldova is that A4 has no logic without Autostrada Transilvania. And there lies the huge utility of Autostrada Transilvania.

Now comes the issue about EU financing. EU did not agree with Transilvania motorway and hence does not fund Transilvania motorway (which is funded entirely by governmental funds - about 0.5 BEUR/year). A4 is nowhere in the EU TEN-T corridors, yet. So the question is why would the EU fund it, when the EU WILL have to fund A5 and A7, part of Corridors IX and IV, in the coming EU budget cycle (2013-2020).

Most probably A4 will be a concession, the same as Comarnic-Brasov to be signed this month.
It's how I'm hearing minister Berceanu himself speaking
If you want to get something done in Brussels as a bigger budget you have to fight for it with a good smart story and involve your neighbours.
The neverending delays with the so needed A1, for which the EU has plenty of money on the shelves, show that the real problem is not in Brussels but in Romania.

An A4 made with private money seems extremely unlikely to me because the mountains in the area require a very huge investment and there are not so many wealthy vacation house owners like in the Prahova valley.

Last edited by knakker; January 12th, 2010 at 03:11 PM. Reason: completing
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:04 PM   #906
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For the EU money Romania needs to have its own share, which it never has enough of.

As for A4, the negotiations for EU financing might only start in 2012, which leaves us hoping that the gov won't wait until 2013 to start working on it, but sign a concession for it (or a section thereof) next year hopefully.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 10:27 AM   #907
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In order to get a complete highway connection Nadlac-Bucharest as soon as possible, I would immediately start to project a connection Sibiu-Faragas (only about 80km, not hard to make) and give priority to the construction of the A3-section Fagaras-Brasov. If in addition the A3 section Brasov-Bucharest would have a 2x3 configuration entirely, there is an excellent efficient connection (low road taxes possible) what makes an expensive second highway through the Karpat mountains (Sibiu-Pitesti) unnecessary to be made for many years. But oh no, unfortunately: thinking well, negotiating well and serving the public interest are qualities what Romanian politicians absolutely don't have.

Last edited by knakker; January 14th, 2010 at 10:36 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 10:35 AM   #908
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In order to get a complete highway connection Nadlac-Bucharest as soon as possible, I would immediately start to project a connection Sibiu-Faragas (only about 80km, not hard to make) and give priority to the construction of the A3-section Fagaras-Brasov. If in addition the A3 section Brasov-Bucharest would have a 2x3 configuration entirely, there is an excellent efficient connection (low road taxes possible) what makes an expensive second highway through the Karpat mountains (Sibiu-Pitesti) unnecessary to be made for many years (those EU-funds can be used for other projects). But oh no, unfortunately: thinking well, negotiating well and serving the public interest are qualities what Romanian politicians absolutely don't have.
You are exagerrating! The current route of A1 has been agreed with the EU and it's the shortest there can be to Bucharest from Timisoara. And it cannot be changed. And, BTW, this is a good plan, not a bad one as you might think it is. The route through Pitesti-Sibiu is necessary for the freight transport on Corridor IV while the route through Brasov-Bucharest is necessary for personal transportation, which is the most demanding on that route in Romania.


Besides, there is NO MONEY for those sections you mention: Fagaras-Brasov and Fagaras-Sibiu!
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Last edited by Le Clerk; January 14th, 2010 at 10:55 AM.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 03:20 PM   #909
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...But oh no, unfortunately: thinking well, negotiating well and serving the public interest are qualities what Romanian politicians absolutely don't have.
I bet you meant Polish politicans :
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Old January 14th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #910
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You are exagerrating! The current route of A1 has been agreed with the EU and it's the shortest there can be to Bucharest from Timisoara. And it cannot be changed. And, BTW, this is a good plan, not a bad one as you might think it is. The route through Pitesti-Sibiu is necessary for the freight transport on Corridor IV while the route through Brasov-Bucharest is necessary for personal transportation, which is the most demanding on that route in Romania.


Besides, there is NO MONEY for those sections you mention: Fagaras-Brasov and Fagaras-Sibiu!
Yes, and we must also take into consideration the fact that is better to have 2 motorway entrances in the city instead of one. How you propose to distribute traffic in the city if all traffic will come via A3? If we add the cost of that 3rd lane through the mountains, it results a very bad solution, without economic efficiency.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 05:21 PM   #911
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I bet you meant Polish politicans :
You should not complain. Poland has allotted for motorway construction this year about 3 times more funds than Romania.

Well, it also affords much more than Romania.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 07:30 PM   #912
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You should not complain. Poland has allotted for motorway construction this year about 3 times more funds than Romania.

Well, it also affords much more than Romania.
OK, I understand. I do not know precise figures.

anyway, for 20 years I was oveloaded with information what kind of motorways we would have in Poland. 20 years have gone and we are "left" with around 800 km of real motorways. so as previously stated "public interest" is completely out of Polish politicans scope.

and the worst thing is that once we reach all goals for the 2012 football championship (around 2014) we have no other plan for future (2015-2020). otherwords we would go back to the past - what was 20 years ago - only promises, no activities.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 01:48 PM   #913
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Quote:
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You are exagerrating! The current route of A1 has been agreed with the EU and it's the shortest there can be to Bucharest from Timisoara. And it cannot be changed. And, BTW, this is a good plan, not a bad one as you might think it is. The route through Pitesti-Sibiu is necessary for the freight transport on Corridor IV while the route through Brasov-Bucharest is necessary for personal transportation, which is the most demanding on that route in Romania.


Besides, there is NO MONEY for those sections you mention: Fagaras-Brasov and Fagaras-Sibiu!
I didn't say at all that Pitesti-Sibiu is a bad plan, the problem is that the A3- contract from Bechtel is limiting doing other projects considerably and therefore should force the government to look for alternatives.
Anyway we don't have influence, so let's see what will happen/not happen this year. I love to be positively surprised

Last edited by knakker; January 15th, 2010 at 02:40 PM.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 10:02 PM   #914
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OK, I understand. I do not know precise figures.

anyway, for 20 years I was oveloaded with information what kind of motorways we would have in Poland. 20 years have gone and we are "left" with around 800 km of real motorways. so as previously stated "public interest" is completely out of Polish politicans scope.

and the worst thing is that once we reach all goals for the 2012 football championship (around 2014) we have no other plan for future (2015-2020). otherwords we would go back to the past - what was 20 years ago - only promises, no activities.
Poland invests this year about 7 BEUR in roads and motorways, while Romania invests only about 2 BEUR. A business journal from Romania made the comparison and asked the press officer from the Polish Ministry of Infrastructure about the investments. Next year, he said Poland will invest 10 BEUR in roads. That's an awful lot of money, compared to Romania and what Romania affords!
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Old January 15th, 2010, 10:07 PM   #915
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The concession contract for Comarnic-Brasov stretch of A3 has been signed today!


The section in blue is the section signed today!
The sections in red are/will be U/C this year.

Finally! The minister negotiated the concession contract for almost half a year with Vinci!

That's a 50 km stretch of motorway which cuts right through the mountains and will cost about 1.5 BEUR! Can't wait to see it finished!

Construction works will probably start late this year or early next year.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 11:10 PM   #916
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Poland invests this year about 7 BEUR in roads and motorways, while Romania invests only about 2 BEUR. A business journal from Romania made the comparison and asked the press officer from the Polish Ministry of Infrastructure about the investments. Next year, he said Poland will invest 10 BEUR in roads. That's an awful lot of money, compared to Romania and what Romania affords!
1. Poland is slightly bigger and joined EU earlier.
2. do not forget next EU budget commisioner would be from Poland

but another question, why we (PL & RO) needed to join EU to start constructing motorways. look at Croatia, they are doing fine.

was any strict plan for motorways in Romania before joining EU ?
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Old January 15th, 2010, 11:18 PM   #917
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January pics with works on Transylvania Motorway. Most are from near the Hungarian border:

















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Old January 15th, 2010, 11:23 PM   #918
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1. Poland is slightly bigger and joined EU earlier.
2. do not forget next EU budget commisioner would be from Poland

but another question, why we (PL & RO) needed to join EU to start constructing motorways. look at Croatia, they are doing fine.

was any strict plan for motorways in Romania before joining EU ?
Well, the first programme for motorways here was set up around 2002 (5 years before EU accession) and the first contract was in 2004 for Transylvania Motorway. But the main problem was always the money. Romania was (and is) always short on infrastructure money.

It's good that Poland got the infrastructure commissioner! Any plans on what he's going to do?
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Old January 15th, 2010, 11:46 PM   #919
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Well, the first programme for motorways here was set up around 2002 (5 years before EU accession) and the first contract was in 2004 for Transylvania Motorway. But the main problem was always the money. Romania was (and is) always short on infrastructure money.
how many kms of Transylvania Mwy were there built so far ?

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It's good that Poland got the infrastructure commissioner! Any plans on what he's going to do?
plans...
to follow EU strategy. he is a professionalist. definately he will not be bringing to front Polish needs. I mentioned that just for fun
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Old January 16th, 2010, 12:32 AM   #920
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how many kms of Transylvania Mwy were there built so far ?
Delivered? 42 km
U/C? About 100 km

But you need to know that the contract was suspended for about 2 years.

Quote:
plans...
to follow EU strategy. he is a professionalist. definately he will not be bringing to front Polish needs. I mentioned that just for fun

OK. That's what he is supposed to do.
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