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Old April 11th, 2017, 12:31 PM   #9361
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Are you even reading what I write?! I didnt say there is no need for more bridges on the Danube. Heck, I even cheered the news for the construction of the new bridge on the Danube at Brăila. BTW: the bridge is in the EU TEN-T so it will have full financial backing. And that's good news! See below.




PS: that bridge will imply even more interconnection investments with the existent motorway network in Romania. That means a new motorway linking the bridge with Braila and Galati and further to Bucharest !
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Old April 11th, 2017, 12:53 PM   #9362
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Originally Posted by roaddor View Post
If you are saying Romania has no need of new bridges with Bulgaria, thus handling a considerable amount of traffic from Turkey, Greece, Hungary and Central Europe, Ukraine, Russia as well as our mutual one, you are a complete joke. Instead you are even begging EU to give you money for a local bridge connecting 4 cities/towns, namely Braila, Galac, Macin and Tulca. If you want that bridge, fine do it yourselves.
By the way, pay attention next time when you enter Bulgaria heading towards Greece. You could experience a very good vacation if don't obey the speed limits.
Btw: you and these little threats sound funny. It's not like Romania needs bulgaria tourists but viceversa. So go ahead.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 02:29 PM   #9363
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This is the so called comprehensive network, which comes in priority after the major 9 EU corridors and the rest of the core network. By the way, there are much more important bridges of international importance, waiting in the queue list. I don't know what you imagine by full financial backing regarding this exclusively Romanian bridge at Braila. The EU contribution if any won't be more than 15-20%. In this regard, it will be a total waste of EU time and money having in mind that there are two more bridges a bit upstream (at Hursovo and Fetesti/Cerna voda). So once again if you want it, why don't you build it on your own?

I was not referring to your tourists. Everybody is free to come when one wants. The last several years, however, we had incidents with your compatriots rushing towards Greece. There were fatalities so driving more carefully is a must if you want first to reach your destination safe and secondly not spoil your entire holidays.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 03:09 PM   #9364
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This is the so called comprehensive network, which comes in priority after the major 9 EU corridors and the rest of the core network. The EU contribution if any won't be more than 15-20%. In this regard, it will be a total waste of EU time and money having in mind that there are two more bridges a bit upstream (at Hursovo and Fetesti/Cerna voda). So once again if you want it, why don't you build it on your own?
You are answering yourself. Because there is EU money for that, obviously, even if in a smaller percentage - it will surely be matched by other EU programs than TEN -T, e.g Danube Strategy or Regional Development. And because the region needs rapid infrastructure investments, and EU money is available for that. I mostly welcome this investment into the bridge and I surely hope that the investment will be followed by the other motorway/expressway connection from Braila and Galati to Bucharest, on one hand, and Constanta, on the other. This will surely boost development in this poor corner of the country and in a NUTS2 region which is not doing very good economically.

PS: I do not drive to Greece or Bulgaria. I take the plane usually. But I had friends though who had incidents indeed, but with stolen cars or road canals left without lids, conveniently near car repair shops.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 04:43 PM   #9365
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Have you already finished A1 & A6 that you hope for new motorways from/to that bridge, presumably with EU funds ? "Regional Development" covers the improvement of the existing secondary road infrastructure which has nothing to do with the TEN-T network, let alone a new bridge over Danube. You mean Romanian Danube Strategy because I don't see any real strategy from European perspective to make a thrid bridge there. This bridge is just a local commutter link for a couple of plants nearby, nothing else. I am not sure "Danube Strategy" is strongly related to new bridges, it is oriented more towards navigation or using the river itself for transport of different goods, also eco matters caused by this navigation. The more realistic case is that the bridge at Braila will be financed by loan which will be paid afterwards by Romanian state and toll-taxes.

Bad luck for your friends, sometimes shit happens. A friend of mine was recently robbed in Bavaria (his house) and if we are too liberal this is the result. As for the lids, you are exaggerating.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 04:48 PM   #9366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
Btw: you and these little threats sound funny. It's not like Romania needs bulgaria tourists but viceversa. So go ahead.
Romanians will come to Balchik even if they have to swim there
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Old April 11th, 2017, 05:22 PM   #9367
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Originally Posted by roaddor View Post

Have you already finished A1 & A6 that you hope for new motorways from/to that bridge, presumably with EU funds ? "Regional Development" covers the improvement of the existing secondary road infrastructure which has nothing to do with the TEN-T network, let alone a new bridge over Danube. You mean Romanian Danube Strategy because I don't see any real strategy from European perspective to make a thrid bridge there. This bridge is just a local commutter link for a couple of plants nearby, nothing else. I am not sure "Danube Strategy" is strongly related to new bridges, it is oriented more towards navigation or using the river itself for transport of different goods, also eco matters caused by this navigation. The more realistic case is that the bridge at Braila will be financed by loan which will be paid afterwards by Romanian state and toll-taxes.

Bad luck for your friends, sometimes shit happens. A friend of mine was recently robbed in Bavaria (his house) and if we are too liberal this is the result. As for the lids, you are exaggerating.
I do not understand your point. You either say that there is no EU funds or say there is too little and then say that there should be build without EU funds. Can you make up your mind?! And then why bother about the infrastructure that is built somewhere where you obviously do not mind, but it is in the interest of other EU citizens who contribute to the EU budget?!
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Old April 11th, 2017, 05:48 PM   #9368
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BTW: there is another project approved by the EU under the TEN-T network, and financed 80% of the cost under the Connecting Europe Facility: Galati Multimodal Platform.

Quote:
After evaluating the application form, the project was declared eligible and was proposed to receive financial assistance from the European Union, the total cost, recommended by the Commission, being 25,619,783 euros and the amount recommended to be funded by CEF is 21,776,814 euros for “Galati Multimodal Platform - Stage I – Upgrade of the waterside infrastructure” in Port bazinul Nou area.

The port of Galati infrastructure upgrade will contribute to enhance the connections between different countries such as Ukraine, Moldova and Romania allowing an increase of freight transport along the lower section of the Danube and the overall Rhine-Danube core network corridor.



This will obviously create a need for more regional connecting infrastructure, including a motorway connection and the proposed bridge in nearby Braila. It is already in the EU interest to create that infrastructure, and I am happy to see it going there.
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Old April 11th, 2017, 09:54 PM   #9369
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Of course you can build whatever bridge you want there on home ground in the corner of Danube, but without EU funds. I have already explained the reasons very clearly.
Galati is on the left bank of Danube, the Ukrainians have Odessa which is also used by the Moldovians and on the other hand they also have Giurgiulesti on Danube. So I don't see any direct motive for them with respect to the bridge at Braila or any big connectivity demands whatsoever. As a matter of fact, a new bridge Orlovka-Isaccea makes much more sense for the Ukrainians from their M-15. Hungary is already connected to Constanta through your A1, A2 highways. And the EU interest which you are talking about is evaporating.
Globally, the Black Sea is more or less locked. The most important ports from the Suez Canal are Piraeus/ Athens and Thessaloniki. Why do you think the Hungarians are building a new fast railway line Budapest-Belgrade together with the Serbs?
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Old April 11th, 2017, 10:36 PM   #9370
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I really don't understand the butthurt in this discussion. It's our project, it is in our MasterPlan, that the EU approved, as part of TEN-T comprehensive road network, along with 2 other bridges that are elligible for EU financing: one at Ungheni (part of the future A8 to Rep of Moldova, TEN-T core) and one at Sighetu Marmatiei (towards Ukraine, kinda useless I think, but hey, they agreed ).
No other bridge connecting to Bulgaria was even proposed in any meaningfull document (political promises don't count, sorry). I don't recall seeing any such bridge mentioned in your list of projects, either, so what exactly are you complaining about?

The Braila-Smardan bridge was proposed to create a new link for the largest urban conglomerate outside of Bucharest (~500000 people), in serious demographic decline in recents years due to being stuck at the edge of the map, with not much space for expansion on the left bank of the Danube, far from the port of Constanta and other large cities by road. It also helps the city of Tulcea grow out of poverty and isolation. Sure, it isn't a priority compared to other large project, but it's a necessity for the region. Besides, bulgarians, out of all people, should know best how you can divert funds for a lesser project, for demographic reasons. Like, say, building the second Danube bridge at Vidin, "to bring it out of isolation" as opposed to the actually useful and direct route via Bechet-Oryahovo or Lom. Sound familliar?
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Old April 12th, 2017, 07:58 AM   #9371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roaddor View Post
Of course you can build whatever bridge you want there on home ground in the corner of Danube, but without EU funds. I have already explained the reasons very clearly.
You don't have any reasons, and we already are building projects there on TEN-T with EU funds. Well, what can you do about that and how do you reconcile that with your big reasons ?!


Quote:
Galati is on the left bank of Danube, the Ukrainians have Odessa which is also used by the Moldovians and on the other hand they also have Giurgiulesti on Danube. So I don't see any direct motive for them with respect to the bridge at Braila or any big connectivity demands whatsoever.
Have you even bothered to read the reasoning for the big intermodal platform in Galati, part of TEN-T?! It's going to channel freight traffic from and to Moldova and Ukraine , and that has been approved by the EU !! Without asking your opinion, go figure !

Quote:
And the EU interest which you are talking about is evaporating.
like how exactly?

Quote:
Globally, the Black Sea is more or less locked. The most important ports from the Suez Canal are Piraeus/ Athens and Thessaloniki. Why do you think the Hungarians are building a new fast railway line Budapest-Belgrade together with the Serbs?
And Constanta is the most important port in the region for EU. And the EU is pushing Galati to grow into a high ranking maritime port of the Black Sea to serve both Moldova and western part of Ukraine, a population the size of Bulgaria for example. How ignorant is the EU to develop ă strategic part of its territory and linking it with neighboring countries with which it has AAs and development projects !
Stop being so selfish. EU is about development of its poorest parts.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 08:03 AM   #9372
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Originally Posted by medicu' de garda View Post
I really don't understand the butthurt in this discussion. It's our project, it is in our MasterPlan, that the EU approved, as part of TEN-T comprehensive road network, along with 2 other bridges that are elligible for EU financing: one at Ungheni (part of the future A8 to Rep of Moldova, TEN-T core) and one at Sighetu Marmatiei (towards Ukraine, kinda useless I think, but hey, they agreed ).
No other bridge connecting to Bulgaria was even proposed in any meaningfull document (political promises don't count, sorry). I don't recall seeing any such bridge mentioned in your list of projects, either, so what exactly are you complaining about?

The Braila-Smardan bridge was proposed to create a new link for the largest urban conglomerate outside of Bucharest (~500000 people), in serious demographic decline in recents years due to being stuck at the edge of the map, with not much space for expansion on the left bank of the Danube, far from the port of Constanta and other large cities by road. It also helps the city of Tulcea grow out of poverty and isolation. Sure, it isn't a priority compared to other large project, but it's a necessity for the region. Besides, bulgarians, out of all people, should know best how you can divert funds for a lessof er project, for demographic reasons. Like, say, building the second Danube bridge at Vidin, "to bring it out of isolation" as opposed to the actually useful and direct route via Bechet-Oryahovo or Lom. Sound familliar?
Some people don't get the simple fact that any region part of the EU will benefit from EU funds and are at least as important as the connection routes between members states. That's why we have TEN-T core routes connecting regions in Romania which are bordering the EU, as much as there are other core routes in Greece or Bulgaria bordering Turkey for example.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 11:00 AM   #9373
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The same old story, Romanians are trying to match European connectivity with an obviously local internal problem. Galati would have served Ukraine, you can say that again . It doesn't matter that the sea ships have to pass through the Danube delta or the huge detour (more than 100km) using the bridge at Braila when going from Constanta to Odessa or vice versa. Open up your eyes and don't try to evade the serious questions with respect to connectivity across the lower Danube. By the way, I didn't start these comments. Somebody asked about the bridges between Romania and Bulgaria and the typical answers are you do care only when going to Greece on holidays. The selfishness and hypocricy actually comes from your side.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 11:45 AM   #9374
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Dude, come on, I think you took that comment some few pages back too much to the heart. Not sure if pasadia was even serious when making that comment, but is this a reason to now hate Romania? Because of a random comment on an internet forum? Get over it, please.

As for the bridge, it's so obvious that EU's paying, don't really see the point of this quarrel.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 11:53 AM   #9375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roaddor View Post
The same old story, Romanians are trying to match European connectivity with an obviously local internal problem. Galati would have served Ukraine, you can say that again . It doesn't matter that the sea ships have to pass through the Danube delta or the huge detour (more than 100km) using the bridge at Braila when going from Constanta to Odessa or vice versa. Open up your eyes and don't try to evade the serious questions with respect to connectivity across the lower Danube. By the way, I didn't start these comments. Somebody asked about the bridges between Romania and Bulgaria and the typical answers are you do care only when going to Greece on holidays. The selfishness and hypocricy actually comes from your side.
Dude, get over it! The EU wants it and pays for it. And actually the Germans too. They are probably much smarter than tou are.

The project is overseen and managed with Duisburg city. The aim is to route German trade with Russia through this port. And it's ok to be jealous. Just don't show that too obviously.


Quote:
Upgrading the Romanian port area is a first step towards a better national economy, as well as offering better trade routes. As the first building stage of the project is set to commence, authorities remind us the total value, with rail and road connections, at around 80,79 million Euros (362,05 million RON). Around 56,15 million Euros (251,63 million RON) will be supported by the Center of Excellence in Finance. Even more, following the next ten years after work is completed, the Port should be able to provide the area with around 50.000 jobs, according to the General Director of APDM (the Administration for the Danube Maritime Ports) Galați, Luigi Ciubrei. As a bonus, the Director adds, many other economic-related activities will be able to develop near the multimodal port terminal.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 12:41 PM   #9376
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Wow, what an unnecessary exchange of accusations :-)

As a more or less neutral observer, I do think there are several aspects to this discussion

- On the one hand, a potentially general unhappiness with the Romanian progress of building the core network - which primarily still mostly serves the local population, as these are going to be the main users of it, but which also has a broader international utility for transit, either persons or freight. And this unhappiness is somewhat justified, but it doesn't justify these accusations and prejudices made here...

- A few comments that do not reveal whether they are sarcastic or not, but that hinted that EU money towards building other bridges is a waste, e.g. in "Nope. We care about those only during summer, when we want to reach Greece seaside faster", and "It was about time EU money goes that way". No smileys whatsoever, hard to detect the intention...

- But then also a persistent ignorance of accepting that some types of EU funds are definitely there for regional development; true, mostly not at such a high funding rate as the TEN-T core network currently is funded with (though that also depends on the receiving country, because if there was a TEN-T core section to be built in Austria, we also wouldn't get 85% funding for that...), but that doesn't mean that the funding is not justified, or a waste of money, or a waste of money that would otherwise go to TEN-T core building, because they might come from a different "pot" anyway (e.g. regional development, ERDF).

Thus, I think it is futile to complain about the bridge in Galati being built, partially supported by EU funds. This is a very justitiable investment.


The bridge in Vidin indeed ist not placed logically to connect these two countries. If you look at the map, it is rather on a (virtual) connection of southern Romania to southern Serbia
if you wanted to connect Bulgaria (and with that, mostly Sofia) towards the west via the Romanian road network, indeed Lom would be the much more logical location for a bridge.
However, according to sources, also Romania was seemingly not happy with that location, but pushed for something equally unjustified (Turnu Magurele, which means a detour to the east from Sofia, and moreover, doesn't offer much alternative to the existing bridge in Russe/Giurgiu ...), and as they further didn't contribute to the bridge itself (just the infrastructure on their shore), there isn't much of an argument for Romania to be unhappy with or blaming others for the bridge being where it is..
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Old April 12th, 2017, 12:44 PM   #9377
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Originally Posted by Alpin View Post

Not sure if pasadia was even serious when making that comment, but is this a reason to now hate Romania?
Common, you know I was serious about that.

1. I really don't see the need for a new bridge between RO and BG:

- The curent two bridges are some how(50-70%) full only when in reapair or during summer holidays.
- southern Romania and northern Bulgaria are EMPTYYYY as hell, with very few people, low investments and frankly few chances to develop other than in agricultural aspects. So by far is more important a decent flow of water on Danube, ensurring that fluvial transport goes easy west or east. No bridge, but dragging and other stuff for Danube transport is needed!
- road traffic over Danube is, once again, low and there are really small chances to develop. From Greece or Turkey towards western Europe natural way is through Serbia. Already traffic is higher on that route, in my estimation in 10 years no one will go through RO on this route. So a new bridge over Danube to link Bulgaria with what? Rusia?? Common...

2. Yes, I really think that roumanian public and authorities don't give a **** about those two bridges. We all know the situation previous to decided the Vidin - Calafat location, we all know how late roumanian side decided to repair their part of Giurgiu - Ruse bridge. So of course that my affirmation was correct, I have no reason to be apologetic about it.

3. About Braila - Macin bridge I really don't think that his opinion is to be taking into consideration. Don't think he knows all the situation, so...
(ps: let's just say that I expect Harsova bridges to be put out of operations in... 10-20 years).
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Old April 12th, 2017, 01:22 PM   #9378
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Common, you know I was serious about that.
I wasn't referring to your remarks on the necessity of bridges connecting us to our southern neighbor, I was referring to the "**** Bulgaria" attitude.
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Old April 12th, 2017, 04:14 PM   #9379
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Hatred?!? No, you make bare trials to escape from your responsibility and face the truth regarding the so called European connectivity. If someone has to believe in the total nonsense of this guy pasadia, then there is even less need to make a bridge at Braila. What a weird logic, the bridges between RO & BG will not be made because of Southern Romania (empty with Bucharest, Craiova, Ploesti, Pitesti) and Northern Bulgaria (empty with Varna, Dobrich, Silistra, Ruse, Pleven, Veliko Turnovo, Shumen, Vratsa). The importance is much bigger and not a single bridge is made because of the vicinity on both sides of the river. It is so naive to claim that there is no considerable traffic from countries like Turkey, Greece, Hungary, Ukraine, Russia through Romania and Bulgaria. But there is suddenly a huge traffic when it comes down to the ports of Constanta and eventually Galati.
As for the urgent German demand to trade with Russia through the IMT of Galati, you really make the day of the Poles and Ukrainians .
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Old April 12th, 2017, 04:31 PM   #9380
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This bridge will not be paid for from Ten T funds even if on the Ten T (non core) network. Trust Le Clerk not to explain as much.

Galati probably will be paid for from Ten T funds.
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