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Old January 17th, 2010, 08:28 PM   #941
nenea_hartia
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3. Exit to Industrial Area East:




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Old January 17th, 2010, 08:30 PM   #942
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4. Bridges over an industrial railway and one small water course:










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Old January 17th, 2010, 08:33 PM   #943
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5. The motorway is passing over Calea Guşteritei road and Cibin river:












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Old January 17th, 2010, 08:34 PM   #944
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6. Junction with National Route 14 Sibiu-Mediaş:



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Old January 17th, 2010, 11:34 PM   #945
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Thank you for the pictures nenea_hartia!

As far you could see, do you think the contractor will deliver the by-pass this year?
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Old January 18th, 2010, 12:39 PM   #946
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Romanian Motorways Construction Milestones

Hello guys

Just a quick opinion on the construction calendar in Romania.

When I try to project what is the calendar of the future openings of the Romanian motorways infrastructure I use to think in milestones terms and not take it year by year.
Based on this, here is my milestone calendar for Romania:

2011 - the opening of the Cernavoda - Constanta A2 section and the completion of the A2 together with the so needed Constanta ring. This is actually the first finished motorway after 1989 and the junction between A2 and the ring will become the biggest junction in Romania (two motorways).

2013 - Lugoj and Cluj should become linked with the rest of the Europe via motorways (together with Schengen) as A1 (Nadlac - Lugoj) and A3 (Oradea - Cluj) will be opened.

2014 - Bucharest should have the first motorway ring and this will solve a lot of problems. The junctions of this ring with A1, A2 and A3, the toll stations and everything will transform this in one of the most spectacular looking projects in Romania.

2016 - first motorway over the mountains as A3 Bucharest-Brasov should be opened. Sibiu will be linked with the rest of the Europe (A1) and so Targu Mures (A3)

2018 - the completion of A1 and A3. Finally Bucharest is linked with the rest of the Europe. A5 should be completed from Ploiesti to Albita. A4 and A7 should be under construction.

Until 2018 we should have 1700 km of completed motorways (+1370) and another 500 km under construction.

I believe after 2015 will will pass the critical point in motorways coverage in Romania and the focus should move somewhere on the national and the local roads that will be left in oblivion until then.

That is of course if we manage to dodge the end of the world (2012)

Last edited by Skynick; January 18th, 2010 at 01:06 PM.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 12:49 PM   #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skynick View Post
Hello guys

Just a quick opinion on the construction calendar in Romania.

When I try to project what is the calendar of the future openings of the Romanian motorways infrastructure I use to think in milestones terms and not take year by year.
Based on this, here is my milestone calendar for Romania:

2011 - the opening of the Cernavoda - Constanta A2 section and the completion of the A2 together with the so needed Constanta ring. This is actually the first finished motorway after 1989 and the junction between A2 and the ring will become the biggest junction in Romania (two motorways).

2013 - Lugoj and Cluj should become linked with the rest of the Europe via motorways (together with Schengen) as A1 (Nadlac - Lugoj) and A3 (Oradea - Cluj) will be opened.

2014 - Bucharest should have the first motorway ring and this will solve a lot of problems. The junctions of this ring with A1, A2 and A3, the toll stations and everything will transform this in one of the most spectacular looking projects in Romania.

2016 - first motorway over the mountains as A3 Bucharest-Brasov should be opened. Sibiu will be linked with the rest of the Europe (A1) and so Targu Mures (A3)

2018 - the completion of A1 and A3. A5 should be completed from Ploiesti to Albita. A4 and A7 should be under construction.

Until 2018 we should have 1700 km of completed motorways (+1370) and another 500 km under construction.

I believe after 2015 will will pass the critical point in motorways coverage in Romania and the focus should move somewhere on the national and the local roads that will be left in oblivion until then.

That is of course if we manage to dodge the end of the world (2012)
Pure science-fiction...
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Old January 18th, 2010, 12:56 PM   #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scurt/2 View Post
Pure science-fiction...
Nah, if you compare what Poland had U/C in 2000 (nuthin') and what they have now... (1000 km) Romania could make the same progress in the coming years. Don't base your thoughts about the past, but look at what is possible in the future. Who in Poland thought in 1995 that they would have so many new motorways under construction now?
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Old January 18th, 2010, 01:05 PM   #949
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Chris,

Poland is a lot more flat (flatter? - sorry, my english lets me down here) and less corrupt. Plus we are only at the beggining of the crisis right now... No money, no nothing! (well, except for the schmiergeld, of course)
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Old January 18th, 2010, 01:10 PM   #950
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I "like" the spirit! I frankly hope we (generally) are not endowed with the same spirit of NOTHING IS POSSIBLE when at work, at home etc. I for one do not think that way, sorry.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 01:33 PM   #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Nah, if you compare what Poland had U/C in 2000 (nuthin') and what they have now... (1000 km)
you are wrong.
we had 18 km of motorways (A1 built in eighties) !!!

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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
...Who in Poland thought in 1995 that they would have so many new motorways under construction now?
you are wrong.
I am afraid almost whole nation was sure we would have tonns of motorways soon (at least that is what we were promised). of course we did not know it was so complex (and complicated) task.


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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
... Romania could make the same progress in the coming years. Don't base your thoughts about the past, but look at what is possible in the future.
you are right.
it depends only on Romanians.
I do not agree with the approach "we cannot do it", "no way with our nation", etc. I do not mean you should not base your opinion on the past and experience. a negative attitude will never be helping
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Old January 18th, 2010, 01:42 PM   #952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
you are right.
it depends only on Romanians.
I do not agree with the approach "we cannot do it", "no way with our nation", etc. I do not mean you should not base your opinion on the past and experience. a negative attitude will never be helping
I agree. But I disagree that the past may be an indicator, and on this one I on the same line as Chris.

The fact is that until very few years ago, Romania did not afford to build motorways, literally. And Romania was not a EU member so that transportation to become such a critical issue, especialy starting with 2007 when because of the very strong economic growth the number of cars just exploded, as well as the freight traffic. I am sure that the motorway construction rythm will be stronger in the coming years, and we'll notice that on the ground.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 02:50 PM   #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skynick View Post
Until 2018 we should have 1700 km of completed motorways (+1370) and another 500 km under construction.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 03:37 PM   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
I agree. But I disagree that the past may be an indicator, and on this one I on the same line as Chris.
maybe I was not clear enough. I did not mean the past tells you exactly what you are capable of, but in any project you are about to launch,
you must understand the environment you are in, the resource' capabilities & abilities and the present experience. if you do really know those, it is easier to manage any project (potential risk evaluation & management, etc).
otherwise you have to do assumptions based on astrology, which probably will not help a lot. do not even argue with it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Clerk View Post
The fact is that until very few years ago, Romania did not afford to build motorways, literally. And Romania was not a EU member so that transportation to become such a critical issue, especialy starting with 2007 when because of the very strong economic growth the number of cars just exploded, as well as the freight traffic. I am sure that the motorway construction rythm will be stronger in the coming years, and we'll notice that on the ground.
this is slightly different than Poland I suppose. as far as I remember there was no car explision, once Poland joined EU.

second thing: I am not going to say Poland is rich (everybody knows it is at the very end of the EU richest countries' list), but money was not the main factor. environmental issues, no clear concept, land owners & NIMBY these are the factors which caused the delay. just imagine, Democracy !
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Old January 18th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by and802 View Post
you are wrong.
we had 18 km of motorways (A1 built in eighties) !!!
And A6 and one lane of A4/A18.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 07:24 PM   #956
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First PPP for motorways signed in Romania!!!


Quote:
Romanian Transport Minister Radu Berceanu, French construction group Vinci and Greek construction company Aktor signed Monday a 30-year concession contract to build the Comarnic-Brasov highway.

Construction on the Comarnic-Brasov highway is to be finished by January 2014 and will cost Romania EUR4.8 billion.

Romanian Prime Minister Emil Boc, also present at the event, said the concession contract signed with the two construction companies is the biggest contract involving a partnership between the private and the public sectors Romania ever signed, and urged the Transport Ministry and local authorities to also resort to this type of partnership in other infrastructure projects such as the Bucharest belt-road.

Boc said partnerships between the public and the private sectors can also be used for projects in the health, environment or agriculture sectors.

Berceanu said the toll to use the Comarnic-Brasov highway will be EUR1 for each automobile, in the first year.

"We can't say how much the toll will be 26 years after the highway is ready for use," Berceanu said.
Source
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Old January 18th, 2010, 07:31 PM   #957
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€ 4.8 billion? That's quite steep, how long is this section, 60 kilometers?

Quote:
The average price for one km of highway in Romania is between EUR3.5 million and EUR8.5 million, depending on the project’s complexity, according to a Transports Ministry document signed by Minister Radu Berceanu and acquired by MEDIAFAX.
4.8 billion for 60 km would translate to € 80 million per kilometer, almost 10 times the upper limit of the average motorway km.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 07:31 PM   #958
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Thank you for the pictures nenea_hartia!

As far you could see, do you think the contractor will deliver the by-pass this year?
Sorry for the delayed response. I don't know, they might. But I see two problems there:
- some works carried out by the initial contractor, Todini, are already in different states of degradation and Max Bögl & Geiger needs to find solutions to solve that issue;
- that stupid second section of the bypass (in green on the map) which hasn't been yet started because some bureaucrats gave the contract to another company, Vectra Service ! 2,4 km is not much and they won't build any bridges but still...

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Old January 18th, 2010, 07:35 PM   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
€ 4.8 billion? That's quite steep, how long is this section, 60 kilometers?



4.8 billion for 60 km would translate to € 80 million per kilometer, almost 10 times the upper limit of the average motorway km.
Yep, about 55 km, but the construction cost per se is 1.2 billion for a section that's mostly double tunnels and viaducts. The rest of the money means financing (interest for the money brough by the investor for a period of 30 years, which means more than doubling the amount from interest alone), maintenance, servicing, security, tolling for the same period etc. So basically the investor will take care on its own costs of the section for the entire period of 30 years.

And of course the amount will be split throughout the period of 30 years.

And, BTW, that was the cheapest offer, AFAIK !!
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Last edited by Le Clerk; January 18th, 2010 at 07:49 PM.
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Old January 18th, 2010, 07:55 PM   #960
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So, 4% interest (which is very low, at bank rates !! and not even at bank) x 30 years, means 120% the interest alone, which means that on top of 1.2 BEUR actual investment, another 1.4 BEUR for the interest => 2.6 billion the financing cost alone.

The rest of 2.2 BEUR means maintenance costs for 30 years, which results in about 70 million EUR/year in maintenance costs. When you consider the number and lenght of tunnels involved and security and maintenance thereof (electricity, other systems, people employed etc), leaving aside all other maintenance costs, I think it's not a huge amount.

Ah, you also have to add some profit for the same period.
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Last edited by Le Clerk; January 18th, 2010 at 08:12 PM.
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