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Old September 4th, 2010, 10:11 PM   #1681
Qtya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I believe it is U/C as we speak, but via slight more northerly course, so you don't see much of it from DN1.
The construction site from Cluj is totally abandoned... I checked it. I stopped for this very reason. The whole site is green... Nature is taking back the place...
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Old September 4th, 2010, 10:19 PM   #1682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtya View Post
The construction site from Cluj is totally abandoned... I checked it. I stopped for this very reason. The whole site is green... Nature is taking back the place...
No, it's not completely, they are working 500m away, building a bridge over Someș/Szamos river. But you are right, they are not working anywhere else in that area.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 10:38 PM   #1683
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Of course M35 on the Hungarian side should be finished ASAP, cas's Main road 47 from Debrecen towards Berettyóújfalu and than Main road 4 until Ártánd is crap as well..
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Old September 4th, 2010, 10:45 PM   #1684
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^ I'm afraid M35 can wait for now, cause we definitely won't have the money and the determination to finish Cluj (Gilău) - Borș stretch very soon.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 10:51 PM   #1685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtya View Post
Of course M35 on the Hungarian side should be finished ASAP, cas's Main road 47 from Debrecen towards Berettyóújfalu and than Main road 4 until Ártánd is crap as well..
the road from Berettyoujfalu to Artand is nr 42 and it is in excellent quality including the ringroad around Biharkeresztes

at the most, what is needed is:
M4 2x2+1 until Torokszentmiklos
M4 half profile from Torokszentmiklos to Kisujszallas
M4 half profile from Puspokladany to RO
M35 half profile from Debrecen to Berettyoujfalu

all these roads (42, 47 and 4 from Torokszentmiklos to Puspokladany) have an AADT ranging from 9000 to 13000

all these half profiles would have a sub-10000 aadt

there is no need for a full profile motorway beyond Torokszentmiklos
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Old September 4th, 2010, 11:03 PM   #1686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
the road from Berettyoujfalu to Artand is nr 42 and it is in excellent quality including the ringroad around Biharkeresztes

at the most, what is needed is:
M4 2x2+1 until Torokszentmiklos
M4 half profile from Torokszentmiklos to Kisujszallas
M4 half profile from Puspokladany to RO
M35 half profile from Debrecen to Berettyoujfalu

all these roads (42, 47 and 4 from Torokszentmiklos to Puspokladany) have an AADT ranging from 9000 to 13000

all these half profiles would have a sub-10000 aadt

there is no need for a full profile motorway beyond Torokszentmiklos
Main road 42 is packed with cars and trucks. Overtaking, overtaking, overtaking, it sux... Same as the road between Berettyóújfalu and Ártánd...

I have no idea where these AADT data are coming from, but they are obviously wrong. (fake or highly outdated)
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Old September 4th, 2010, 11:03 PM   #1687
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^ I agree with gramercy. For now, a fully profile motorway would be probably money spent meaningless. Maybe in 10 years, when Romanian A3 will finally get to Ártánd...
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Old September 4th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #1688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nenea_hartia View Post
^ I agree with gramercy. For now, a fully profile motorway would be probably money spent meaningless. Maybe in 10 years, when A3 will finally get to Ártánd...
Don't agree, high traffic volume, and real danger in towns and road.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #1689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtya View Post
Main road 42 is packed with cars and trucks. Overtaking, overtaking, overtaking, it sux... Same as the road between Berettyóújfalu and Ártánd...
the road between Berettyoujfalu and Artand IS nr 42

as far as overtaking goes, it couldnt be more perfect:
flat and level
long straights
high radius curves
smooth asphalt

as far as nr 47 goes, they COMPLETELY resurfaced it either last year or the year before that from Debrecen to the roundabout on 42 in Berettyoujfalu


Quote:
I have no idea where these AADT data are coming from, but it's obviously wrong, or highly outdated.
it comes from utadat.hu
now, if you know a better source, please, dont hesitate


half profile would suffice

the better question is: why isnt even that being prepared....
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Old September 4th, 2010, 11:21 PM   #1690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtya View Post
Don't agree, high traffic volume, and real danger in towns and road.
I know the road, last time I've been there in July. Yes, it has a high traffic volume, but not that high like the Romanian DN1 towards Borș. And - you witnessed yourself - we are doing nothing.
Now seriously speaking, I hope someday I will drive on motorway from my home town to Budapest. But I'm sure I won't see it happening anytime soon, unless I will change my residence from here to somewhere in Oradea or Arad.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 11:34 PM   #1691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramercy View Post
as far as overtaking goes, it couldnt be more perfect:
flat and level
long straights
high radius curves
smooth asphalt.
170 HP, 350 Nm and good brakes help a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nenea_hartia View Post
I know the road, last time I've been there in July. Yes, it has a high traffic volume, but not that high like the Romanian DN1 towards Borș. And - you witnessed yourself - we are doing nothing.
That's true.

Still that you are not building your motorway connection, shouldn't be an excuse for us.
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Old September 4th, 2010, 11:50 PM   #1692
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Quote:
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Still that you are not building your motorway connection, shouldn't be an excuse for us.
I completely agree.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 11:01 AM   #1693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nenea_hartia View Post
I know the road, last time I've been there in July. Yes, it has a high traffic volume, but not that high like the Romanian DN1 towards Borș. And - you witnessed yourself - we are doing nothing.
Now seriously speaking, I hope someday I will drive on motorway from my home town to Budapest. But I'm sure I won't see it happening anytime soon, unless I will change my residence from here to somewhere in Oradea or Arad.
Lucky me

IMO when there is insuficient money for a full motorway and the AADT is not over 10k-15k, half profile is excelent because it bypasses all villages/towns, you get lot of passing space due to long straights and high-radius curves and the road is a little wider than a normal 1+1.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 11:10 AM   #1694
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There is a reason why most motorways in Europe are not built half-profile. The only country which did this extensively was Italy in the 1920's and 1930's. Half-profile is more expensive in the end. Instead of 100%, you'll end up paying 150% in two times. Construction cost almost always inflate faster than general inflation, or better; the purchasing power of the transportation budget declines.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 12:11 PM   #1695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There is a reason why most motorways in Europe are not built half-profile. The only country which did this extensively was Italy in the 1920's and 1930's. Half-profile is more expensive in the end. Instead of 100%, you'll end up paying 150% in two times. Construction cost almost always inflate faster than general inflation, or better; the purchasing power of the transportation budget declines.
cost is one thing, and you are correct that in the end half profile is more expensive

we are just about to see that in case of M2

but!

you shouldnt look at the cost. you should look at the return!
and if you look at the hungarian network with regards to the lack of capacity, you will see, that spending X amount of money / year in the entire country will result in higher GDP growth if we can address the most critical sections as fast as possible

this will result in a faster growth and a much higher return on the money which will easily compensate the extra cost of the second half profile

let me give you an example: nr 10 has a ~25.000 aadt, it still goes through the center of towns so it is not even a main road more like a secondary road, it is always congested in the mornings and in the afternoons, yet it services a highly competitive area with a huge potential
and even the corresponding railway is a piece of [email protected], with a 100+ year old alignment, single track, no electrification and a 1,5 hr connection time for a 60 km distance

all this area needs is a new bridge on the Danube, ~ 20 kms of 2x2 and ~ 15 kms of 2x1 half profile

yet what are we doing? building a full-profile motorway for 30+ kilometers in the middle of nowhere (M3 after Nyiregyhaza) parallel to a completely good road (nr 41) that has ~15k aadt, a perfect alignment, long straights etc.
so this new highway will have a sub-10.000 aadt and will be longer and built before M10, a highway that would support a significant portion of the Budapest metro area and a highway that would quite possible pay for itself and this M3 section within a few years in GDP growth

go figure
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Old September 7th, 2010, 08:57 AM   #1696
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Some fresh updates from A1 (Timisoara-Arad U/C section):


Quote:
Originally Posted by MHN View Post
[B][SIZE="5"]
Septembrie 2010:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MHN View Post
Septembrie 2010:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MHN View Post
Septembrie 2010:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHN View Post
Inca 3 imagini din Septembrie, cu o una dintre zonele asfaltate:




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Old September 7th, 2010, 09:32 AM   #1697
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the place looks like it is abandoned. or at least not so much rush there.

and then I started reviewing pictures from Poland.

and you know what ?

THE SAME
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Old September 7th, 2010, 10:22 AM   #1698
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It may seem so, but in the first pic you have at least a dozen trucks lined up to transport dirt. And in the last pics works are completed, asphalt included. They only need to place the water canals, fences, mark the road etc.
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Old September 7th, 2010, 10:54 AM   #1699
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Quote:
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the place looks like it is abandoned. or at least not so much rush there.
These pics are taken on Sunday
(2 days ago)
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Old September 10th, 2010, 12:18 AM   #1700
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A slight rearrangement of the motorway network in Romania for the period beyond 2013 by the Transport Ministry:



Corridor XI appears clearly in the Transport Min plans with an extention all the way to Nadlac via Timisoara.

There is a weird but new connection in between Hunedoara and Craiova through a mountainous area. Pretty unrealistic IMO. Other than that, the triangle in between Craiova-Drobeta and Calafat is welcome.

The MOtoray to Giurgiu appears on the map, though currently there is a functional expressway and traffic does not justify another motorway route now or in the coming decade, especially after the completion of the Vidin-Calafat bridge.

Another interesting and needed route is the connection in between A1 and A3.

Yellow lines are motorway projects proposed after 2013.

Blue lines are U/C sections.
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Last edited by Le Clerk; September 10th, 2010 at 12:46 AM.
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