Bay Area Census and Rankings

[gladisimo]

Originally Posted by Apoc

I don't think people should get all sensible about what a really old article or someone says.
SF is The City, SJ the tech hub, and Oakland and the east bay are the industrialish/bedroom side of the bay...see? we are all happy!

And the peninsula...?

[arturo]

Originally Posted by gladisimo

And the peninsula...?

that's for people too rich for the city! i <3 the bay

[gladisimo]

Originally Posted by arturo

that's for people too rich for the city! i <3 the bay

I live in the peninsula... I thought the city would be more expensive.

[krudmonk]

About the little brother complex, it's starting to go both ways. San Jose wants to be big and famous like San Francisco, while San Francisco is worried about the slight chance that we eventually will be. That's why they'll always put down San Jose no matter how many strides it makes to become a so-called "real city," irrespective of the city up north. In the end, the height of buildings will always be the determining factor is most people's minds.

[dewback]

Originally Posted by arturo

that's for people too rich for the city! i <3 the bay

Peninsula? I doubt it. The houses in the peninsula might be bigger (read suburban), but that doesn't necessarily means that it is a place for people too rich for the city. If anything, the "old money" has remained in Nob Hill and Pacific Heights. Also, Marin has more claim to the "rich" region of the Bay Area than suburban Peninsula. The super rich in the Bay Area would rather have a vineyard in Napa/Sonoma, although some do live in private communities south of SF.

I am rather new to the Bay Area, but I have already seen some signs of the regional dynamics. For example, I do too consider San Jose to be "far away" from the more urban areas of the region (SF/Oakland). I have been to SJ proper once, and it does look like a suburban center. It is center of much of the new economic activity, but somethings tells me that if the 49ers move they will still show images of SF during the TV breaks.

San Francisco is still the center of the Bay Area and often reaps the benefits of what other sub-regions have developed. For example, I found funny how Silicon Valley was described on a wikipedia article as being "south of San Francisco" instead of being (correctly) associated with San Jose. Also, many technological companies have an obsession to get offices in the urban heart of SF even when it's not necessary for them to do so. The same applies to government agencies and their new peculiar federal building. This might be based on the allure of San Francisco, the better public transportation, or the fact prime office space was cheaper a few months ago.

The East Bay is sometimes seen as a bedroom area for SF/SJ, but I can see the same thing in some parts of Peninsula. Also, the area around Oakland looks the most industrial. Oakland should be considered as having it's own nature/culture, and I see it as being more underrated than San Jose. Some areas of the Northern East Bay are often associated with education or being "whiter" because of Albany's recognized public schools and the presence of UC Berkeley. Yes, UC Berkeley is a majority non-white student institution, but the faculty and the city are much whiter in comparison to Oakland.

[vadin]

Originally Posted by dewback

Peninsula? I doubt it. The houses in the peninsula might be bigger (read suburban), but that doesn't necessarily means that it is a place for people too rich for the city. If anything, the "old money" has remained in Nob Hill and Pacific Heights. Also, Marin has more claim to the "rich" region of the Bay Area than suburban Peninsula. The super rich in the Bay Area would rather have a vineyard in Napa/Sonoma, although some do live in private communities south of SF.

I'm not sure where you are getting this idea about where the super rich in the Bay area live, but your notions about this topic seem rather skewed.

Check out Forbes list of most expensive zip codes in the US for 2006(I couldn't find the list for 2007). Six of the top fifty are from cities in San Mateo and Santa Clara County. Atherton, in San Mateo county was #1 in 2005, although it fell slightly in 2006. SF County has ZERO zip codes in the top 50.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/7/Rank_1.html

[arturo]

Originally Posted by dewback

Peninsula? I doubt it. The houses in the peninsula might be bigger (read suburban), but that doesn't necessarily means that it is a place for people too rich for the city. If anything, the "old money" has remained in Nob Hill and Pacific Heights. Also, Marin has more claim to the "rich" region of the Bay Area than suburban Peninsula. The super rich in the Bay Area would rather have a vineyard in Napa/Sonoma, although some do live in private communities south of SF.

Cities on the Penninsula have long been the bedroom communities for people working in the city. Basically, the hills between San Mateo and San Francisco directly East of 280 have been the people with "money" who didnt want to live in ther city lived. You have to remember that before the Golden Gate, there was no convenient way of getting to Marin.
I will agree that the old money is perhaps still in Nob Hill and Pac Heights but those people also probably have home on the Peninsula or Marin. And remember, Larry Ellison, Steve Jobs and the Google guys all live on the Peninsula.

[JoshuaSantos]

Compare what you get for $4-6M in Pac Heights with Los Altos Hills, Woodside, Atherton, or Palo Alto, and you'll know why many affluent individuals working in SF choose to live in the Peninsula. Besides, I've never had someone try to sell me crack in downtown Palo Alto or Los Altos.

[krudmonk]

Originally Posted by vadin

I'm not sure where you are getting this idea about where the super rich in the Bay area live, but your notions about this topic seem rather skewed.

Well, he said he's new to the area. He's probably still honeymooning with the San Francisco he saw on TV before moving west.

[metropolismayor]

Originally Posted by dewback

I am rather new to the Bay Area, but I have already seen some signs of the regional dynamics. For example, I do too consider San Jose to be "far away" from the more urban areas of the region (SF/Oakland). I have been to SJ proper once, and it does look like a suburban center. It is center of much of the new economic activity, but somethings tells me that if the 49ers move they will still show images of SF during the TV breaks.

San Francisco is still the center of the Bay Area and often reaps the benefits of what other sub-regions have developed. For example, I found funny how Silicon Valley was described on a wikipedia article as being "south of San Francisco" instead of being (correctly) associated with San Jose. Also, many technological companies have an obsession to get offices in the urban heart of SF even when it's not necessary for them to do so. The same applies to government agencies and their new peculiar federal building. This might be based on the allure of San Francisco, the better public transportation, or the fact prime office space was cheaper a few months ago.

You are correct in some of your assertions. However, youre missing the larger point, mostly because you dont take into consideration the future. Yes, SF is the current center of the BA, but we are beginning to see a shift of power southward. If we dont see a complete shift of power eventually (like over the next 50 years), then we'll at least see a two-center region emerge. I understand why this makes SF uncomfortable, but I still cant see how this isnt a win-win for everyone in the BA. (Lets face it, working together is our only chance to compete against a NYC or Chicago) Again, this may not happen next year or next decade, but it is coming.

By the way, SJ is not that far from SF. Its ridiculous that people think that. Ft. Worth and Dallas are about 30 miles apart yet they work in synch just fine. SF and SJ are only about 40 miles apart and yet SJ is "so far away." Silly...

[Silicon Francisco]

Its already a two center region with San Francisco and Silicon Valley. SF is still ranked as the 4th largest financial center in North America after New York, Chicago, and Toronto. The Silicon Valley is the most innovative technology center (not sure if there's a ranking for this), these are two different animals and also I don't believe there's ever going to be a shift of power from SF to San Jose. They don't have to work together anyway. SJ is barely a city and not far more important than the other Valley cities so it won't have an anchor, but that's fine since everyone knows what "Silicon Valley" is.

The Bay Area will never be able to compete with NYC, Chicago or LA, but it has competition with nearby technology centers like Seattle and LA, and is not likely to fall behind.

[JoshuaSantos]

Originally Posted by Silicon Francisco

Its already a two center region with San Francisco and Silicon Valley. SF is still ranked as the 4th largest financial center in North America after New York, Chicago, and Toronto. The Silicon Valley is the most innovative technology center (not sure if there's a ranking for this), these are two different animals and also I don't believe there's ever going to be a shift of power from SF to San Jose. They don't have to work together anyway. SJ is barely a city and not far more important than the other Valley cities so it won't have an anchor, but that's fine since everyone knows what "Silicon Valley" is.

Wow, you must not work in technology. San Jose has far and away the largest technology cluster in the world, bar none (the golden triangle). The second largest cluster in the world isn't even 1/3 the size of San Jose's. If you have ever used anything called a computer or the Internet, then you are using a product requiring vast amounts of IP from San Jose companies. There is no other city on earth with as many semiconductor firms as San Jose. In additon, you might be thinking to yourself, the major chip companies like Interl, AMD, and NVIDEA Intel are not located in SJ (although they are closeby), but the technologies that they use to actually design and build the chips ARE coming from SJ companies like Cadence, KLA-Tencor, Mentor Graphics, Pixelworks, Magma, etc. etc. Cisco is the largest Internet infrastructure company in the world by far and is headquartered in SJ. Adobe, BEA Systems, etc... all San Jose (and those 2 are HQed downtown).

San Jose plays a pinnacle role in the entire technology industry... it is THE anchor of Silicon Valley and Silicon Valley is THE anchor of the entire IT industry. You must be a banker.

[krudmonk]

Franhattan's anti-car culture comes into play twice here:

-San Jose is "far away" if you can't drive

-San Jose is "barely a city" if you can't drive

[JoshuaSantos]

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Franhattan's anti-car culture comes into play twice here:
-San Jose is "far away" if you can't drive

I believe that Caltrain goes directly into downtown San Jose... not sure how long the trip is but I'm guessing between 60-75min.

Originally Posted by krudmonk

Franhattan's anti-car culture comes into play twice here:

-San Jose is "barely a city" if you can't drive

You don't really need a car if you're in Downtown San Jose. From most areas in downtown you have all basic services (hair salons, dentist offices, grocery, video stores), 100+ restaurants, one of the largest libraries in the US, convention center, dozens of bars and nightclubs, comedy clubs, SJ Arena, museums, parks, a killer movie theater, etc. all within walking distance.

If there was a train that ran to Santana Row/Valley Fair a car would be even less of a necessity. Maybe someday.

[metropolismayor]

Originally Posted by Silicon Francisco

Its already a two center region with San Francisco and Silicon Valley. SF is still ranked as the 4th largest financial center in North America after New York, Chicago, and Toronto. The Silicon Valley is the most innovative technology center (not sure if there's a ranking for this), these are two different animals and also I don't believe there's ever going to be a shift of power from SF to San Jose. They don't have to work together anyway. SJ is barely a city and not far more important than the other Valley cities so it won't have an anchor, but that's fine since everyone knows what "Silicon Valley" is.

The Bay Area will never be able to compete with NYC, Chicago or LA, but it has competition with nearby technology centers like Seattle and LA, and is not likely to fall behind.

San Jose's technology companies FUEL SF as a financial center. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Silicon Francisco]

Originally Posted by JoshuaSantos

Wow, you must not work in technology. San Jose has far and away the largest technology cluster in the world, bar none (the golden triangle). The second largest cluster in the world isn't even 1/3 the size of San Jose's. If you have ever used anything called a computer or the Internet, then you are using a product requiring vast amounts of IP from San Jose companies. There is no other city on earth with as many semiconductor firms as San Jose. In additon, you might be thinking to yourself, the major chip companies like Interl, AMD, and NVIDEA Intel are not located in SJ (although they are closeby), but the technologies that they use to actually design and build the chips ARE coming from SJ companies like Cadence, KLA-Tencor, Mentor Graphics, Pixelworks, Magma, etc. etc. Cisco is the largest Internet infrastructure company in the world by far and is headquartered in SJ. Adobe, BEA Systems, etc... all San Jose (and those 2 are HQed downtown).

San Jose plays a pinnacle role in the entire technology industry... it is THE anchor of Silicon Valley and Silicon Valley is THE anchor of the entire IT industry. You must be a banker.

Relax, I know who San Jose and the Valley are, I'm familiar in fact with everything you just mentioned. I'll let you have this since you're new here and a "San Jose fan".
All I'm saying is that there's no clear Capital of the Silicon Valley, that's just a nickname adopted by San Jose - the "Silicon Valley" is just that, not the "San Jose metro". The Valley is the pinnacle of IT innovation, but its not the Mecca of the entire tech universe. That's what I used to think though. For beginners, the Internet isn't routed through the Valley, that is a fact.

Originally Posted by metropolismayor

San Jose's technology companies FUEL SF as a financial center. Why is that so hard to understand?

No, they fuel Menlo Park as a VC center. Silicon Valley's (not San Jose's alone) companies help SF, but it was the financial center of the West Coast long before the 1990's.

[vadin]

Originally Posted by Silicon Francisco

Relax, I know who San Jose and the Valley are, I'm familiar in fact with everything you just mentioned. I'll let you have this since you're new here and a "San Jose fan".
All I'm saying is that there's no clear Capital of the Silicon Valley, that's just a nickname adopted by San Jose - the "Silicon Valley" is just that, not the "San Jose metro". The Valley is the pinnacle of IT innovation, but its not the Mecca of the entire tech universe. That's what I used to think though. For beginners, the Internet isn't routed through the Valley, that is a fact.


No, they fuel Menlo Park as a VC center. Silicon Valley's (not San Jose's alone) companies help SF, but it was the financial center of the West Coast long before the 1990's.

All hail San Francisco, the "4th largest financial center in North America".
San Jose is not worthy!!

[The misanthropist]

Well, this thread is showing me more about "regional dynamics in the bay Area" that I could ever hope for. Keep it going.

[arturo]

Originally Posted by Silicon Francisco

For beginners, the Internet isn't routed through the Valley, that is a fact.

First off I love the Bay, I'm not here to argue this is better than that. But on this point...the Internet is actually routed through the valley. If you ever look at SJs skyline there is a cool gold building that basically controls the Internet, at least in this part of the world. That building has so many lines going in and out and is, in fact, one of the key data transfer points on the Internet backbone. Crazy, huh?

[JoshuaSantos]

Originally Posted by Silicon Francisco

All I'm saying is that there's no clear Capital of the Silicon Valley, that's just a nickname adopted by San Jose - the "Silicon Valley" is just that, not the "San Jose metro".

Actually you also said this:

Originally Posted by Silicon Francisco

SJ is barely a city

Maybe you could have gotten away with saying that 10 years ago, but now at least some people will call BS on that statement.

Originally Posted by Silicon Francisco

For beginners, the Internet isn't routed through the Valley, that is a fact.

25% of all the traffic in this hemisphere is routed through the gold building in downtown SJ, so to some degree it is. Also pretty much all of all the backbone router and switch equipment that enables the internet to function is made by Silicon Valley Companies: Cisco (SJ), Xilinx (SJ), Juniper Networks (Sunnyvale). Not to mention the top content providers are also located in the area: Google/YouTube (Mountain View), eBay (SJ), Yahoo (Sunnyvale), etc.