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Old October 18th, 2016, 12:06 AM   #2161
Titan Man
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That's the thing with the new buildings around Alexanderplatz, instead of bringing that commie wasteland to the 21st century, architects are designing stylish commieblocks, like this one or, for example, Motel One. I don't need to mention that horrible, fugly, tasteless, kitschy, God-awful Alexa Shopping Mall. Point is, Alexanderplatz and its surroundings must be modernized and redeveloped with styles and urban principles of the 21st century (that includes New Urbanism and New Classical Architecture), not to continue with outdated grey, faceless buildings and unnecessarily wide streets and avenues just to please the investors.
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Old October 18th, 2016, 10:31 AM   #2162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
That's the thing with the new buildings around Alexanderplatz, instead of bringing that commie wasteland to the 21st century, architects are designing stylish commieblocks, like this one or, for example, Motel One. I don't need to mention that horrible, fugly, tasteless, kitschy, God-awful Alexa Shopping Mall. Point is, Alexanderplatz and its surroundings must be modernized and redeveloped with styles and urban principles of the 21st century (that includes New Urbanism and New Classical Architecture), not to continue with outdated grey, faceless buildings and unnecessarily wide streets and avenues just to please the investors.
And I think exactly the opposite. Alex should embrace the DDR-look and feel and only build houses that suit the style. There is enough 21-century shit architecture everywhere in the world and in Berlin already (potzdamer platz, zoo, ...) and classism and neo-classism is already in multiple sites too but only few places in the world are resembling what Alexanderplatz is. If you destroy the commie-heritage now it will not come back and what you have afterwards? Just another district that are found everywhere in the world in modern cities with zero interest value.
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Old October 18th, 2016, 02:07 PM   #2163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
I think it looks grey and dull. :/ Ironic that it is called "Grandaire". There's literally nothing grand about it.
Well, each to their own.
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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:35 PM   #2164
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KPMG-Headquarter | EuropaCity | U/C

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Old October 18th, 2016, 03:56 PM   #2165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettobird View Post
And I think exactly the opposite. Alex should embrace the DDR-look and feel and only build houses that suit the style. There is enough 21-century shit architecture everywhere in the world and in Berlin already (potzdamer platz, zoo, ...) and classism and neo-classism is already in multiple sites too but only few places in the world are resembling what Alexanderplatz is. If you destroy the commie-heritage now it will not come back and what you have afterwards? Just another district that are found everywhere in the world in modern cities with zero interest value.
It depends on what you find valuable. I'm not advocating for demolition of every communist building that has ever been built, as some of them have become quite iconic (Berlin TV Tower, Seven Sisters of Moscow, etc), but we shouldn't leave them for the sake of leaving them or as a "reminder" of some past regimes. Berlin's commieblocks didn't redefine architecture of the 2nd half of the 20th century, they just followed what was fashionable back then. Ok, you can say Alexanderplatz is unique because of its scale and a couple of interesting buildings, but was it really something groundbreaking, not seen in Moscow or Warsaw, or is it just the size that matters? Also, the whole place has seen some construction projects (that didn't follow the communist style) that have quite changed its face, so it's not even filled with purely socialist architecture, it's a mish-mash of surviving commieblocks and tasteless buildings of the past 10-20 years. Alexanderplatz is changing and it's going to change even more as years go by, as there are a couple of highrises to be built there, so it's better to make it perfect and according to our urbanist principles rather than replacing communist architecture with faux communist architecture to "preserve its character". That's as if someone wanted to demolish Venice and build something that looks like it, pure kitsch. To sum up, either leave it completely as it is or demolish it and make something completely new. The first option has become impossible by now, so that leaves Berlin with the second one.
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Old October 18th, 2016, 04:38 PM   #2166
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Old October 18th, 2016, 04:48 PM   #2167
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Old October 18th, 2016, 04:57 PM   #2168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettobird View Post
but only few places in the world are resembling what Alexanderplatz is. If you destroy the commie-heritage now it will not come back and what you have afterwards? Just another district that are found everywhere in the world in modern cities with zero interest value.
There's interesting commie heritage and there's a lot of shit. No need to pretend like random modernist concrete monsters and commieblocks are some kind of valuable heritage.

Places like Karl-Marx-Allee, Fernsehturm, Haus des Lehrers etc. certainly are interesting heritage worth to be kept. But a central downtown districts like Alexanderplatz also needs to move on and get some proper urban structures and interesting new architecture. It shouldn't freeze in 1989.
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Old October 18th, 2016, 05:06 PM   #2169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post

Places like Karl-Marx-Allee, Fernsehturm, Haus des Lehrers etc. certainly are interesting heritage worth to be kept.
Exactly, these are worth protecting and renovating, as they are unique and have interesting history, but the rest should go down when the time comes.
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Old October 18th, 2016, 06:02 PM   #2170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
[...], but the rest should go down when the time comes.
The time has come!
...
...
...
hopefully
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Old October 18th, 2016, 08:14 PM   #2171
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No need for demolishing anything. The buildings are in a very good shape and there are even thoughts on stacking up some more floors on top of the commi blocks.
Unfortunatly these are very steady structures.

Many people dont understand the way the inner eastern city was planned and there for they are just whining arround without regognizing the gem they are complaining about.
Every structure around Alexander Platz is exactly ment to be there to fit sight lines and showing, here is the center, here is Alexander Platz.
It may be that you have the specific structures around in Warsaw or Moscow, Kazan or the hack i know.
But youre not going to find another city with signs of former "royal history", western and eastern shaped citys of the last century in just one center next to each other, in this qualitiy, regardless of which period or ideology.
There for it should be respected. Further development should be done in adapting this. Surely not copying though.
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Old October 18th, 2016, 09:10 PM   #2172
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I would love to see what could be done to restore/renovate those buildings. They are a blank canvas and some really cool ideas could be done instead of the more expensive option of teardown and reconstruction.
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Old October 19th, 2016, 11:51 AM   #2173
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THOMAS DAILY ARTICLE

Quote:
Berlin: Tishman Speyer buys "Pressehaus am Alexanderplatz"

28/09/16
Tishman Speyer has purchased the "Pressehaus am Alexanderplatz" in Berlin. The landmarked building with a total lettable area of 27,500 sqm is being sold by the Bertelsmann media group, who had bought the publisher Berliner Verlag after reunification and retained pre-emptive rights for the property after reselling the publishing house. Tishman Speyer is planning extensive refurbishing measures after the current tenant vacates the premises in 2017. “The 'Pressehaus am Alexanderplatz' is one of the few large properties with readily available office space in the highly dynamic Berlin Mitte district,” says Florian Reiff, Senior Managing Director at Tishman Speyer. The company had already acquired property in Berlin in August of 2015, when it bought the “Quartier 205” between Friedrichstraße and Gendarmenmarkt. Reiff announced intentions to continue building the company’s Berlin portfolio. BNP Paribas Real Estate brokered for the seller. Tishman Speyer was advised on the transaction by the law offices of King & Spalding LLP. Landesbank Hessen-Thüringen (Helaba) is financing the deal. The property will be included in the European value-add fund Tishman Speyer European Real Estate Ventures VII.


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Old October 19th, 2016, 09:47 PM   #2174
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Good to hear that, hopefully they'll create a more urban podium building and somewhat hide the fugly block. I'd be even happier if they'd tear it down of course, except the somewhat iconic staircase with the ads that you see on the left.
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Old October 20th, 2016, 12:29 AM   #2175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan Man View Post
It depends on what you find valuable. I'm not advocating for demolition of every communist building that has ever been built, as some of them have become quite iconic (Berlin TV Tower, Seven Sisters of Moscow, etc), but we shouldn't leave them for the sake of leaving them or as a "reminder" of some past regimes. Berlin's commieblocks didn't redefine architecture of the 2nd half of the 20th century, they just followed what was fashionable back then. Ok, you can say Alexanderplatz is unique because of its scale and a couple of interesting buildings, but was it really something groundbreaking, not seen in Moscow or Warsaw, or is it just the size that matters? Also, the whole place has seen some construction projects (that didn't follow the communist style) that have quite changed its face, so it's not even filled with purely socialist architecture, it's a mish-mash of surviving commieblocks and tasteless buildings of the past 10-20 years. Alexanderplatz is changing and it's going to change even more as years go by, as there are a couple of highrises to be built there, so it's better to make it perfect and according to our urbanist principles rather than replacing communist architecture with faux communist architecture to "preserve its character". That's as if someone wanted to demolish Venice and build something that looks like it, pure kitsch. To sum up, either leave it completely as it is or demolish it and make something completely new. The first option has become impossible by now, so that leaves Berlin with the second one.
You seem to have multiple truths. On the other hand you discriminate against buildings from an era that you happen to not like by saying we should not build more "commie"-block style buildings. And not more kitsch. And at the same time you talk about building buildings that look "classic" - like something from the 1800. These modern classical buildings have completely modern technology, modern room-layout, modern building materials and the only thing that makes them "classical" is that they have the same looks and nothing else. It is all kitsch. These buildings are probably torn down even before the DDR-buildings because the quality (efficiency in everything) of today does not match previous generations and you can already see 90's buildings ripped apart. They have less value than buildings that were built during a certain era following the principles and virtues of that time and it's not our job to judge what is worth preserving and what is not but preserve little bit of everything.

In Berlin there are multiple central districts that are built with different style so if you like classical you can head to Friedrichstrasse. Or modern go to Hauptbahnhof or Potzdamer platz. Where can those people go who like concrete-architecture if you destroy the last monument of it? The city has extremely unique history like no other place in the world and even DDR is part of it. I don't want to preserve everything but this is something that is not found on many places and Alexanderplatz is for me easily the most likable part of downtown Berlin.
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Old October 20th, 2016, 01:19 AM   #2176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettobird View Post
You seem to have multiple truths. On the other hand you discriminate against buildings from an era that you happen to not like by saying we should not build more "commie"-block style buildings. And not more kitsch. And at the same time you talk about building buildings that look "classic" - like something from the 1800. These modern classical buildings have completely modern technology, modern room-layout, modern building materials and the only thing that makes them "classical" is that they have the same looks and nothing else. It is all kitsch. These buildings are probably torn down even before the DDR-buildings because the quality (efficiency in everything) of today does not match previous generations and you can already see 90's buildings ripped apart. They have less value than buildings that were built during a certain era following the principles and virtues of that time and it's not our job to judge what is worth preserving and what is not but preserve little bit of everything.

In Berlin there are multiple central districts that are built with different style so if you like classical you can head to Friedrichstrasse. Or modern go to Hauptbahnhof or Potzdamer platz. Where can those people go who like concrete-architecture if you destroy the last monument of it? The city has extremely unique history like no other place in the world and even DDR is part of it. I don't want to preserve everything but this is something that is not found on many places and Alexanderplatz is for me easily the most likable part of downtown Berlin.
One thing I like about New Classical Architecture in Berlin is that it usually doesn't look old. To me, those look like contemporary buildings that continue centuries of architectural development. When I see Koollhoff's building, I don't mistake it for a Baroque or historicist building and I like it explicitly because of that. I'm not advocating for Baroque or Renaissance buildings being built somewhere where they didn't exist before the war. To me, the problem of Alexanderplatz and the surrounding area is the urbanism. The whole place seems to be overblown, too big for itself, with wide roads cutting through the city center. That's not how a city center of a metropolis should look like. I have already said, preserve what is valuable (and there are many communist buildings there I would never even consider for demolition), but don't leave some cheap block for the sake of leaving it. Also, Alexanderplatz has already been changed to some degree by redeveloping older buildings into stores or building new malls, so you don't have a perfect communist showcase there anymore. Karl-Marx Allee is a better example of utopian communist architecture (at least for me). I know what you're saying, some people like that sort of architecture, but if it doesn't have any value, then it should go. If the architects and urban planners say that Alexanderplatz works as a whole, who am I to question their decision?

Edit: I don't see the problem with New Classical buildings having modern technology and being built with modern materials. Apart from a couple of them, buildings are mainly not appreciated for the materials used in construction, but for their design.
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Old October 20th, 2016, 10:49 AM   #2177
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Thanks for wonderful updates maxxe
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Old October 20th, 2016, 01:41 PM   #2178
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And I think exactly the opposite. Alex should embrace the DDR-look and feel and only build houses that suit the style. There is enough 21-century shit architecture everywhere in the world and in Berlin already (potzdamer platz, zoo, ...) and classism and neo-classism is already in multiple sites too but only few places in the world are resembling what Alexanderplatz is. If you destroy the commie-heritage now it will not come back and what you have afterwards? Just another district that are found everywhere in the world in modern cities with zero interest value.

Are you an architect ?
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Old October 20th, 2016, 04:15 PM   #2179
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Old October 20th, 2016, 07:07 PM   #2180
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Are you an architect ?
I'm not an architect.
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