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Old February 20th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #581
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Quote:
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Simple answer: Because it looks nicer!
Even in these ultra modern days, people are in need of beauty in their lifes. You may find 19th century facades ugly and kitschy, but trust me, the biggest part of the population does love them. Why should they be denied that? Because you know best?
Market should short that out. I don't mind if things get built in a taste I dislike (nor could I do anythign about it). But I hate and loathe when overempowered city planners venture into directing the design of new projects. I think engineers should take care of city planning with a functional/objective mentality and left all aesthetic considerations about façades, styles etc. to the marketplace to sort it out
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Old February 20th, 2013, 05:55 PM   #582
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Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Simple answer: Because it looks nicer!
Even in these ultra modern days, people are in need of beauty in their lifes. You may find 19th century facades ugly and kitschy, but trust me, the biggest part of the population does love them. Why should they be denied that? Because you know best?
19th century facades are beautiful. But the main reason why people love to live in such old buildings is, that modern architecture is ugly so often. People don't favor ancient design in general. They love their i-phones because its so well designed in a contemporary style.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #583
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Please don't start comparing product design or furniture or clothes and what-not to architecture... It's completely different arts following completely different logic and rules.


Other than that, we have an architecture forum. Please take the discussion there and leave this thread for focussed project discussion. Thanks.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 09:16 PM   #584
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Might be as well, but I prefer highly disruptive change of paradigms in architecture, those that disregard entirely what existed before.
Fine. That's like saying you're completely changing the look of your face and body every few years with plastic surgery.

Do that. But please don't expect other people to appreciate this... uglification ignoring any kind of past.

We know that you love trolling and stop these kind of discussions wherever you come... Just keep going elsewhere.


Anyway, let's go ahead with truly interesting stuff. Like projects.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 10:22 PM   #585
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Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Please don't start comparing product design or furniture or clothes and what-not to architecture... It's completely different arts following completely different logic and rules.


Other than that, we have an architecture forum. Please take the discussion there and leave this thread for focussed project discussion. Thanks.
Buffet:
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Salle à manger Masson von Alexandre Prévot auf Flickr

Balcony:

image hosted on flickr

Barcelona, Spanien von sylvia-münchen auf Flickr

Big difference?

I forgot to write, that my example for a modern and beautiful architecture is a project from Berlin. It will be built in Miguelstraße.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 11:16 PM   #586
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Might be as well, but I prefer highly disruptive change of paradigms in architecture, those that disregard entirely what existed before.
"Those who can only see in the past are blind in one eye. Those you can only see in the future and blind in both eyes!"
Old Russian Proverb.
Certinaly has been proved right when it comes to architectural styles since WW2.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 11:30 AM   #587
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Big difference?
The difference ain't the point here. The point is, that interiors and products are something mostly kept private, inside.

While architecture is a public art. Something everyone gets to see.

Thus you're free to have modernist interiors in your 19th century mansion.

But better think twice before dumping another concrete box in the very center of Freiburg, right next to the Cathedral.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 03:12 PM   #588
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19th century facades are beautiful. But the main reason why people love to live in such old buildings is, that modern architecture is ugly so often. People don't favor ancient design in general. They love their i-phones because its so well designed in a contemporary style.
I agree mostly. People (me included) love 19th century facades because it embodies a time before. Its the idea that people worked/lived in the same place as you 100/200 years before, an idea that gives the facades meaning and life. When you simply copy that it takes all that meaning and life away and you're left with something that means nothing.

In good modern architecture/contemporary architecture the aims are improving what has been learned from history, and apply it to our needs now. That includes learning from all previos styles, including those poorly designed council estates that every traditionalist loves to hate. Those would have 'failed' even if they had a 19th century apparence; because of other factors such as how the buildings are layed out.

In the 21st century with a greater knowledge of why these huge schemes failed, new contemporary architecture can embrace the elements of modernism that worked (such as giving light and space to a building), and leave out those that didn't (such as having huge blocks that ignore their surroundings) to create something completely fitting for now.

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Old February 21st, 2013, 05:15 PM   #589
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. When you simply copy that it takes all that meaning and life away and you're left with something that means nothing.
I really like this discussion cause it embodies all the views on the contemporary art of planning and building new areas.

As for Berlin- this is not a simple copy. I will show that below.

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In the 21st century with a greater knowledge of why these huge schemes failed, new contemporary architecture can embrace the elements of modernism that worked (such as giving light and space to a building), and leave out those that didn't (such as having huge blocks that ignore their surroundings) to create something completely fitting for now.
And this is exactly what's happening in Berlin. Please take a closer look- facades are not identicall to those from XIX, early XXth century. That fulfills yours and mine and many other people's desire
to have something trully modern but INSPIRED by the old. So it's not a copy paste- it's developmnet and progress.

And trully, Berlin reached its own style of modern architecture- based on classical proportions, styles and visions but still modern and elegant. Simply smart in its huge variety of options and types still characteristic for the place.

Moreover it represents what are you asking for- great marriage of OLD ideas:
-frontages
-human scale
-distance (relatively small) to local centres of life
- correspondence with the older buildings
and NEW ideas:
-new but inspired style of facades
-a lot of light which is gain by abandoning flats inside the quartier and developing greens in it plus better planning of a flat (so it takes a lot from modernism)
-all the necessary facilities like garages etc connected with present.

As a result in Berlin we have got a great mixture of what was the best in old and new types of architecture

I wish I would see that kind of planning and way of thinking in my country
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Old February 21st, 2013, 06:39 PM   #590
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Originally Posted by Youth86 View Post
I really like this discussion cause it embodies all the views on the contemporary art of planning and building new areas.

As for Berlin- this is not a simple copy. I will show that below.



And this is exactly what's happening in Berlin. Please take a closer look- facades are not identicall to those from XIX, early XXth century. That fulfills yours and mine and many other people's desire
to have something trully modern but INSPIRED by the old. So it's not a copy paste- it's developmnet and progress.

And trully, Berlin reached its own style of modern architecture- based on classical proportions, styles and visions but still modern and elegant. Simply smart in its huge variety of options and types still characteristic for the place.

Moreover it represents what are you asking for- great marriage of OLD ideas:
-frontages
-human scale
-distance (relatively small) to local centres of life
- correspondence with the older buildings
and NEW ideas:
-new but inspired style of facades
-a lot of light which is gain by abandoning flats inside the quartier and developing greens in it plus better planning of a flat (so it takes a lot from modernism)
-all the necessary facilities like garages etc connected with present.

As a result in Berlin we have got a great mixture of what was the best in old and new types of architecture

I wish I would see that kind of planning and way of thinking in my country
We are talking about a new aesthetics of those Berlin buildings and not about the use of contemporary technology. You won't find one brick at those houses which has a new interpretation of historic styles. It's all copy of the thirties streamline style or better New Objectivity. There is nothing new and contemporary. Even the green environment is an idea of the Bauhaus.

It's not enough to build a garage in the basement, if you want to develop a new architectural style.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 08:45 PM   #591
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I`m glad, that they make these...



...into these here:


pictures ©Ludi

Patzschke architects are godsend for Berlin!!
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 04:48 AM   #592
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Let 'em all moan as much as they want about the contemporary neotraditionalist Berlin Style.

It's original in its own sense of elegance, proportions and combination of elements. This style hasn't been around before. PUNKT.

And it's much better than anything built in the past 7 decades. And better than the things many modernists would love to go ahead with, too.


Keep going, Berlin!
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 09:43 AM   #593
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Than we should tear down this

image hosted on flickr

Sony Centre von |neurosis| auf Flickr

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Sony Center von fransisinthesky auf Flickr

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Bahn Tower von I-DAVE auf Flickr

to build more of that instead?

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(c) ZIEGERT - Bank- und Immobilienconsulting GmbH


(c) ZIEGERT - Bank- und Immobilienconsulting GmbH


(c) ZIEGERT - Bank- und Immobilienconsulting GmbH

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There is good architecture and bad architecture. The bad architecture of former times has been teared down already. So we have the impression that historic architecture must be good architecture. If we think that the world is good enough today, than we can stop developing new things. But then we won't be surprised anymore, and our planet will convert into the most boring space of the universe. That would be a poor destiny for the world and for Berlin.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 09:56 AM   #594
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Maybe this style should be more described as a new style, kind of neoclassicism not fake. We have to see that certain styles are already thousands of years old, Buildings which where build 200 years ago were partly following the hellenic style, with all the white pillars as in Greek temples. The romans "copied" this style from the greek, made it their own. They did not copy it directly, they simply created a new one. Many people who are not willing to accept that styles repeat themselves are ignorant. Modernism is already over 100 years old, see the barcelona pavilion from 1929. The style already emerged long time ago and it is just one style. If you want to see it like this we are already oldfashioned anyway.. Nowadays in this multifaceted world there is enough space and capital to run several styles at the same time, the world changed it is an advantage to our cities not a disadvantage. Who knows maybe we will regard the current neomodernism as oldfashioned in some day and a revival of it will have to face the same critics like this new neoclassicism nowadays.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 09:58 AM   #595
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Than we should tear down this

We shouldn't go from one extremum to another. Of course there is also a good post-modern architecture (Sony Center is one of the greatest examples) but this type of buildings creates a representative areas. You cannot build all city out of the postmodernism architecture- it would look ridicullus. Actually what You can do is to build main part of the city out of calm, neo-traditional, good cooperating with the city architecture. And this is what's going on in Berlin. It has its icons- PotzPlatz with Sony Center, Kuppel above Bundestag, ZooFenster, TV Tower etc. But the main part is for people, not tourists but inhabitants.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 11:45 AM   #596
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Than we should tear down this

to build more of that instead?

There is good architecture and bad architecture. The bad architecture of former times has been teared down already. So we have the impression that historic architecture must be good architecture. If we think that the world is good enough today, than we can stop developing new things. But then we won't be surprised anymore, and our planet will convert into the most boring space of the universe. That would be a poor destiny for the world and for Berlin.
You have a too simple way to approach this issue I would say, please don't be so exaggerated and try not to see everything black or white. By the way, you may not realize it now, but the only fact you're criticizing this style so much while defending what has been commonly built around in the last decades, shows they are breaking the status quo with their work and therefore facing opposition from "conservatism" within architecture. You're the one against "developing new things" here!
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 01:57 PM   #597
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I'd never assume you'd be that simple minded Ghostie - and sure you aren't.

I agree with the previous posts here.

Of course Berlin has its fantastic postmodern buildings and deconstructivist and other gems.
But they shouldn't be a majority, as they all do nothing but cry for attention.

People prefer neotraditionalist and older buildings to live in and there's loads of reasons for that.

This is not the thread to explore the mindset behind the Berlin Style. This is a project thread. So again:
Let's please take it to the Architecture forums. Thanks.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 04:07 PM   #598
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After the colossal destruction of architectural shape of Berlin, because of the second world war, Berlin lost aristocratic appearance, and Berlin became a provincial, anti-imperial cities, especially on the background of Paris, Saint-Petersburg, Rome, Madrid and other great cities, who preserved imperial architectural appearance... Berlin has ceased to be of the great capital one of the greatest nations of Western civilization. This new fashion is a revival of the classics - a great start to the revival of the imperial, classical appearance in Berlin. The capital of a great nation, should look Great and pompous, but not what Berlin is now.
Congratulations to the Germans with the revival of a great country!
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 05:29 PM   #599
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You have a too simple way to approach this issue I would say, please don't be so exaggerated and try not to see everything black or white. By the way, you may not realize it now, but the only fact you're criticizing this style so much while defending what has been commonly built around in the last decades, shows they are breaking the status quo with their work and therefore facing opposition from "conservatism" within architecture. You're the one against "developing new things" here!
If you would read my posts without prejudice you would find out that it was not me, who declared all modernist architecture worse than those new historism buildings in Berlin. It was erbse who said that there is only black and white. And it's also your opinion that everything which looks new has no value.

I never said that Neo Historism is ugly. It's nice, but it doesn't have any artistic value. Because Neo Historism doesn't surprise with something never seen before. It's not like Helmut Jahns Sony Center and not like Frank Gehrys bank building at Pariser Platz. Particularly the Sony Center is one of the best contemporary styled buildings in the world. Thousands of tourists visit this building every day.

People like you have been around at all times to protest against modern architecture. Before World War One it was the german emperor who opposed any Jugendstil Building in Berlin. All had to be built in Neo Historism. Around Gedächtniskirche at the Kurfürstendamm all Jugendstil was forbidden, and they had to build in Neo Romanism. If conservatism would have to decide, the most beautiful Jugendstil building of Kurfürstendamm would never have been built.

image hosted on flickr

BERLIN 2010 pic330 von streamer020nl auf Flickr

Kurfürstendamm would look like a row of strongholds instead.


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It's the "Romanisches Café" Building, right next to Gedächtniskirche, built by imperial order. It was destroyed in WW II.

You probably can decide if a building is beautiful or ugly. But you're missing the imagination that there are much more alternatives to design a beautiful building than you have seen in your life.

@Youth86
If a building fits in its environment does not depend on a historic decoration. It depends on the size of the building and that its composition matches with the neighbour buildings. In my city they built a whole district with postmodern buildings. Some of them are more some are less beautiful. But the whole thing is a very livable area of the town. And yess, there you will find also one neo romanism building. It's ugly.

@erbse
We are discussing the projects you have introduced in this thread. It's about those buildings and about a new style for our time. Of course I know how to disprove an argument and I know how to do it emotional. That makes the discussion more interesting.

Last edited by GhostOfDorian; February 22nd, 2013 at 05:45 PM.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 09:28 PM   #600
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Because Neo Historism doesn't surprise with something never seen before. It's not like Helmut Jahns Sony Center and not like Frank Gehrys bank building at Pariser Platz.
Sony Centres and Gehrys are exception to the rule rather than the rule. Too often modern architecture is ugly, dull and uninspiring. These Berlin buildings are not going to win any architectural awards, but at least they are attractive.
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