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Old October 24th, 2017, 09:29 AM   #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolaj View Post
It is not the bridge itself that is the determining capacity restraint, but (on the Danish side) capacity in and around the Copenhagen Airport station.
And the tunnel where no other trains are allowed when a freight train is going through it.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #862
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And the tunnel where no other trains are allowed when a freight train is going through it.
To expand on this: Due to the big incline in and out of the tunnel, there is a very small risk of a freight train getting stuck climbing the tunnel. You don't want a passenger train stuck inside the tunnel while the freight train can't move in either direction, so you need the freight train clear of the tunnel mouth before allowing any other train to enter the tunnel.

Furthermore, I think (I'm not sure) that when a freight train with dangerous cargo is in the tunnel, not only trains in the same direction are prohibited, but also in the opposite direction. This is in case of accidents.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 05:40 PM   #863
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Furthermore, I think (I'm not sure) that when a freight train with dangerous cargo is in the tunnel, not only trains in the same direction are prohibited, but also in the opposite direction. This is in case of accidents.
I would think that type of freight would go late at night so as not to interfere with regular traffic.

Getting back to the original query about a Copenhagen-Malmø metro service: is there a real need for this service? I would think the present commuter rail service would be a more efficient use of the limited capacity in the tunnel.

Also, any news on a Elsinør-Helsingborg bridge? I think they'll be a big need for more freight capacity to Norway and Sweden when the Fehmarn tunnel is built.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 07:05 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by Amexpat View Post
Getting back to the original query about a Copenhagen-Malmø metro service: is there a real need for this service? I would think the present commuter rail service would be a more efficient use of the limited capacity in the tunnel.

Also, any news on a Elsinør-Helsingborg bridge? I think they'll be a big need for more freight capacity to Norway and Sweden when the Fehmarn tunnel is built.
I think the initial answers on this could have been better.

A Copenhagen-Malmö metro is not entirely unrealistic, and it has gotten fairly strong backing from the Copenhagen mayor, but it's still very very far away, if it ever happens.

They are currently doing (partly EU funded) preliminary research on it. They finished one study earlier this year and will have another done by 2020. You can find reports (in Danish) here: https://www.kk.dk/oresundsmetro

The next line of the Copenhagen metro is still just an idea on the drawing board, but it will almost certainly have a stretch from the Central Station to Refshaleøen, crossing the habour which is the most congested bit of the current line



In theory that could just continue across the water until it reached Malmö. That's basically the most realistic scenario of how it could happen. But there's no firm plan or money for the next metro line, let alone an extension to Sweden. We're talking about a 30+ year time frame before a Malmö line could happen.

The Elsinore-Helsingborg connection is somewhat in competition with a new Malmö line and more realistic. It could happen relatively quickly, but it has its own set of issues. The current Danish minister of transportation only sees a road connection as financially viable. It's also made harder by there being fairly limited additional road and rail capacity on the Danish side and the area being the richest and most nimby part of the country. They're not that interested in additional traffic nor in building new roads or highways.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 11:25 PM   #865
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Thanks Danton for the link and info. It looks like the planning for the Metro to Malmø is further along than a bridge to Helsingborg.

I see that the Metro to Malmø would be a separate, more direct tunnel. I guess that would have the benefit of lessening the amount of commuter rail on the current line and opening up for more freight traffic.

Living in Norway, I'd prefer to have a rail connection by bridge over to Helsingborg - it would be best for freight. I've driven many times along the Danish Riviera and it's too wealthy and special to disturb. But couldn't a new rail line to Elsinore go inland, perhaps starting west of Copenhagen? That way freight coming up from the continent to Norway and Sweden could avoid going through Copenhagen.
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Old October 24th, 2017, 11:43 PM   #866
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But couldn't a new rail line to Elsinore go inland, perhaps starting west of Copenhagen? That way freight coming up from the continent to Norway and Sweden could avoid going through Copenhagen.
There's not much support for that. Problem is it doesn't benefit Denmark that much. And people in that part of the country are very much against rail and motorway in the ring 5 corridor.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 12:29 PM   #867
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Thanks Danton for the link and info. It looks like the planning for the Metro to Malmø is further along than a bridge to Helsingborg.

I see that the Metro to Malmø would be a separate, more direct tunnel. I guess that would have the benefit of lessening the amount of commuter rail on the current line and opening up for more freight traffic.

Living in Norway, I'd prefer to have a rail connection by bridge over to Helsingborg - it would be best for freight. I've driven many times along the Danish Riviera and it's too wealthy and special to disturb. But couldn't a new rail line to Elsinore go inland, perhaps starting west of Copenhagen? That way freight coming up from the continent to Norway and Sweden could avoid going through Copenhagen.
No Helsingør-Helsinborg bridge is in planning, but a tunnel.

The Danish and Swedish government agreed in June 2017 that they will launch a Strategic Analysis of a fixed HH connection (tunnel) to be completed in 3 years. https://www.trm.dk/da/nyheder/2017/u...og-helsingborg (in Danish)

According to the press release they will investigate as well a road-only connection as a combined road-rail connection, both to financed by the users. The Danish minister states in the press release that he prefer a road-only connection, as he sees it as the most viable solution, but after request from the Swedish Government, a combined connection will also be investigated.

Further on the comments on the Ring 5 and new railway west of Copenhagen, it is specifically stated that a Ring 5 is not a pre-condition for the project and is not part of the project.

The Copenhagen-Malmö Metro project is a local project without any current national backing, whereas the HH project is backed by the respective governments.
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Old October 25th, 2017, 09:05 PM   #868
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Further on the comments on the Ring 5 and new railway west of Copenhagen, it is specifically stated that a Ring 5 is not a pre-condition for the project and is not part of the project.
I know he said that and I think some study by industry lobbyists backed it up, but I still have a hard time seeing it happen. I dont think people are ready to accept another 10 000+ daily vehicles on what is already a fairly bad commute (Helsingørmotovejen & Ring 3).

My hope is they figure out how to build Ring 5 in a way that spares most of the important natural areas. They figured out a way to build the Silkeborg highway (and threw some money at it) in a way that ended up satisfying most people.

It should probably be added that a road connection and a passenger rail connection are basically two different projects. The road (and possibly freight) tunnel would be south of the city while a passenger rail tunnel would be between the two main stations



But, again, a freight line would require new tracks on the Danish side because there isnt much capacity. And the current Danish government is somewhat grabby and seems mostly interested doing the minimal while having it paid for by the fees of the mainly Swedish/Norwegian users.

It's all basically a puzzle that have to be put together.
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Old October 26th, 2017, 09:22 AM   #869
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Originally Posted by Danton05 View Post
I know he said that and I think some study by industry lobbyists backed it up, but I still have a hard time seeing it happen. I dont think people are ready to accept another 10 000+ daily vehicles on what is already a fairly bad commute (Helsingørmotovejen & Ring 3).

My hope is they figure out how to build Ring 5 in a way that spares most of the important natural areas. They figured out a way to build the Silkeborg highway (and threw some money at it) in a way that ended up satisfying most people.

It should probably be added that a road connection and a passenger rail connection are basically two different projects. The road (and possibly freight) tunnel would be south of the city while a passenger rail tunnel would be between the two main stations



But, again, a freight line would require new tracks on the Danish side because there isnt much capacity. And the current Danish government is somewhat grabby and seems mostly interested doing the minimal while having it paid for by the fees of the mainly Swedish/Norwegian users.

It's all basically a puzzle that have to be put together.
Please read the press release. It is specifically only a rail connection for passenger transport that is being investigated - not a freight connection.

Freight traffic will be dedicated o the current Malmö - Copenhagen connection, and a prospective passenger connection Heldingborg-Helsingør will be local/regional traffic, not long distance/high speed which will be routed via Malmö-Copenhagen (and Copenhagen Airport).

Wjat is thus needed is an expansion of the current Helsingør Motorway, and such a project is much less controversial than new Ring 5, which is fiercely opposed in the the ery influential Northern Zealand municipalities.
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Old November 5th, 2017, 03:22 PM   #870
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Originally Posted by Danton05 View Post
I think the initial answers on this could have been better.

A Copenhagen-Malmö metro is not entirely unrealistic, and it has gotten fairly strong backing from the Copenhagen mayor, but it's still very very far away, if it ever happens.

They are currently doing (partly EU funded) preliminary research on it. They finished one study earlier this year and will have another done by 2020. You can find reports (in Danish) here: https://www.kk.dk/oresundsmetro

The next line of the Copenhagen metro is still just an idea on the drawing board, but it will almost certainly have a stretch from the Central Station to Refshaleøen, crossing the habour which is the most congested bit of the current line



In theory that could just continue across the water until it reached Malmö. That's basically the most realistic scenario of how it could happen. But there's no firm plan or money for the next metro line, let alone an extension to Sweden. We're talking about a 30+ year time frame before a Malmö line could happen.

The Elsinore-Helsingborg connection is somewhat in competition with a new Malmö line and more realistic. It could happen relatively quickly, but it has its own set of issues. The current Danish minister of transportation only sees a road connection as financially viable. It's also made harder by there being fairly limited additional road and rail capacity on the Danish side and the area being the richest and most nimby part of the country. They're not that interested in additional traffic nor in building new roads or highways.
Looking at these plans for M6 and M8 - It seems that the city is thinking to do the Øresunmetro the way you mention, but are also considering adding a third harbor crossing by Amerikasplads and thus effectively creating another loop in the city.

(The report also ruled out the viability of the M8 line and strongly recommended M6 as a metro (no fast bus or tram)

https://byensejendom.dk/article/refs...lliarder-22365

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Old November 7th, 2017, 12:54 AM   #871
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The first part of the pedestrian bridge is up at Køge Nord station.

Its the section located above the 2 S-train platforms.


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Today was the big day, for me and many more people in Køge.

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Old November 27th, 2017, 03:17 PM   #872
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A joint venture with Vinci construction and Hochtief will build the south harbour metro line.

The plan is to start work in 2018 on the 4,6 kilometer long line with 5 stations and that it will open in 2024.

https://www.licitationen.dk/article/...dhavnsmetroen#
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Old November 28th, 2017, 08:41 PM   #873
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http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=525
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Old November 29th, 2017, 05:53 PM   #874
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The main stairs from ground level to the mezzanine level has been assembled on all metro stations beside Nørrebro.
The reason is that Nørrebro as the only station besides the ones on Frederiksberg and the Sydhavn branch will get escallators up to ground level.

The coloured dots means that they are done with the work.

Black: Main stairs
Blue: Escalators (from Mezzanine level to Platform)
Red: Platform screen doors
Green: decoration of the station walls
Yellow/Orange: platforms



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Status and one exciting tidbit:



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Old December 13th, 2017, 11:53 AM   #875
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So big news from Copenhagen today.

S-train will be driverless in stages until 2036 when new S-trains will be introduced.

The new CBCT train control system currently introduced on the Nordbanen from Jægersborg to Hillerød makes this possible.

Next stage to go live is this spring where Harreskovbanen from Svanemøllen to Farum and the S-train part of Kystbanen from Svanemøllen to Klampenborg, from Hellerup to Jægersborg and the northern part of the Ring line from Hellerup to around Ryparken.

DSB will not be responsible for the S-train anymore and will be offered to other operators in a bidding round.
I am not sure if this was before or after the new driverless trains arrived.

From what I understand DSB will supply drivers for the trains until each line goes driverless but that doesn't mean that DSB will run the trains.

The ring line (F line between Ny Ellebjerg and Hellerup/Klampenborg) will be a test track for driverless trains around 2026.



Another part of this deal is that the Øresundståg will be seperated from Kystbanen and will only run from Sweden to Østerport station.

The Kystbanen will then be integrated in the Regionaltogs traffic on Sjælland and therefore they will loose their direct train to the airport.
This will happen in 2020.

https://www.trm.dk/da/nyheder/2017/n...dstadsomraadet
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Old December 13th, 2017, 12:17 PM   #876
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Small correction.


The ring line will be a test track in 2022 and all lines will be ready for driverless trains in 2030.

New trains will then be put into service from 2026 to 2036.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 07:38 PM   #877
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Here is some reading about the driverless S-train in english.

https://www.trm.dk/en/publications/2...less-operation
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Old December 14th, 2017, 10:34 AM   #878
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Small correction.


The ring line will be a test track in 2022 and all lines will be ready for driverless trains in 2030.

New trains will then be put into service from 2026 to 2036.
In five years? Yeah, good luck with that.
As far as I know there are no other systems of this size with driverless trains. Again, Denmark becomes a first mover with a technology that isn't proven yet (*cough* ETCS), I only expect delays, budget overruns - and maybe even a few accidents.

---

Now, the separation of Øresund traffic from Kystbanen traffic is only good in my eyes. I think the biggest negative point is Ryngsted Kyst goes to two trains per hour (tph) while they have 3 tph today. In rush hour they might get four tph, but still not six tph like today.
Other than that, I like the 20-min frequency because it's not too infrequent in the evening, like the S-trains. I had imagined a system with 3 tph Roskilde - Nivå, 3tph Roskilde - Airport, and 3tph Airport - Helsingør while keeping the current service levels on Kystbanen and a new stop at Glostrup.
On the other hand, making all regional traffic on Sjælland 30-minute based will increase simplicity (and frequency some places). It's a tough one.
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Old December 14th, 2017, 12:50 PM   #879
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Progress on Ny Ellebjerg traffic interchange, seen from the Køge Bugt S train line platform, showing start-up work on the relocated Ring S train station. The new metro station will be on the site of the present Ring S station. Regional and IC train platform and the airport (at present freight only) lines to the left.
The site of the sub-surface interchange concourse in the foreground.



How the station may look when finished.

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Old December 14th, 2017, 07:18 PM   #880
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Article from IRJ, on the automatisation of the Copenhagen S bane net.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=000
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