daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 15th, 2011, 12:55 AM   #321
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Also, with Croatia joining the EU, I do wonder if they'll choose to join Schengen or if they will maintain their own visa policy (i.e. like what UK and Ireland are doing).
I'm pretty sure it's not optional. Croatia will be required to join the Schengen Zone when the EU decide they are ready. The UK and Ireland negotiated opt-outs, but that is no longer possible for new EU members.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 15th, 2011, 02:20 AM   #322
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,088
Likes (Received): 4752

Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirtkosova View Post
Its quite annoying that citizens of the Republic of Kosovo still cannot travel through Schengen area without visas
They can, but only with Serbian passports.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 04:03 AM   #323
StevenNL
Registered User
 
StevenNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: International
Posts: 2,783
Likes (Received): 542

They can with Albania's passport too.
StevenNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 06:25 AM   #324
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,088
Likes (Received): 4752

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenNL View Post
They can with Albania's passport too.
But how many of them have Albanian passports? OTOH, aren't they all entitled to Serbian passports?
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 06:33 AM   #325
shpirtkosova
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,373
Likes (Received): 6

The recognition is not actually the issue, despite this all the 5 non recognising countries have vowed to allow Kosovo to integrate within the EU. Kosovo citizens (this being Serbs and Albanians) cannot travel to Schengen zone using Serbian passports as they are not valid to citizens residing in R. Kosovo. This was the agreement made by the EU and Serbia not to supply Kosovo citizens with bimoetric passports. The problem remains that quite a few people from Kosovo still claim asylum in the west and the Schengen countries are really unhappy with countries like FYROM and Serbia because their citizens are using this as a bypass to further claim asylum, they are even thinking about retracting visa free regimes with Serbia and FYROM because these remain to be the big problem out of the 5 balkan countries.

Luckily/thankfully the government in Kosovo is taking action to inform the people what visa free regime really means. This is being done through public media and leaflets around local institutions.
shpirtkosova no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 06:49 AM   #326
StevenNL
Registered User
 
StevenNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: International
Posts: 2,783
Likes (Received): 542

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
But how many of them have Albanian passports? OTOH, aren't they all entitled to Serbian passports?
To answer your question, not anymore. They are not entitled to either unless they are eligible to apply for it.
StevenNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 07:41 AM   #327
Blackraven
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Makati (in the Philippines)
Posts: 2,294
Likes (Received): 235

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
I'm pretty sure it's not optional. Croatia will be required to join the Schengen Zone when the EU decide they are ready. The UK and Ireland negotiated opt-outs, but that is no longer possible for new EU members.
Ah I see. So they'll go for 100% Schenegen. Okay

I was thinking of doing a massive Euro-trip vacation in the future so with more countries in the European continent, this would mean lesser visits to embassies to get visas and other relevant travel permits/documentation.

So I guess in the future, all I'll need is:
Schengen visa + visa for United Kingdom (I guess Gibraltar is included here) + visa for Ireland (oh wait, do we have an embassy for Ireland)

Oh wait
@mcarling

The Ireland embassy (for tourists in the Philippines) is surprisingly located in YOUR country. More specifically, according to google:

Embassy of Ireland
Ireland House
541 Orchard Road #08-00 Liat Towers
Singapore 238881



P.S.
Hmm.....
What, Netherlands and Finland are opposing? What's the reason? They don't trust Bulgaria and Romania???
Blackraven no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 09:28 AM   #328
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,807
Likes (Received): 619

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
What, Netherlands and Finland are opposing? What's the reason? They don't trust Bulgaria and Romania?
The only ones brave enough saying they do not trust. Who would trust?
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 10:01 AM   #329
Le Clerk
AUTOBANN.ED
 
Le Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 35,482
Likes (Received): 12053

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
P.S.
Hmm.....
What, Netherlands and Finland are opposing? What's the reason? They don't trust Bulgaria and Romania???
Actually, only the Netherlands is still opposing (Finland has recently announced it will not oppose anymore), the reason being Geert Wilders. Otherwise, the rest of the countries are currently putting some pressure on the Dutch Gov to abandon this stance.
__________________
Rebuilding Bucharest's History: Lipscani Area |Victoriei Ave. | Elisabeta Bld.
Yes, it's Dracula's Castle
Best picture collection of UNESCO sites in Romania
Castles and Mansions in Romania
Le Clerk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 10:31 AM   #330
Chilio
Небостъргачевград
 
Chilio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sofia
Posts: 12,790
Likes (Received): 9161

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The only ones brave enough saying they do not trust. Who would trust?
What do you mean by that? This sounds like some cheap populistic crap that far-right politicians have filled your head with.

Schengen or not, the ones that are problematic (for example gypsies going in western countries and doing illegal things) can travel around the EU without a visa or any other obstruction anyway. They just have to have a valid ID card, even not a passport... Facts is that illegal import (drugs, cigarettes etc.) in the EU is catched by authorities also on the external border (with Turkey mostly), not at the internal borders.
It's not the internal borders checks that will solve the problems, so it's not letting Bulgaria and Romania in or not letting them in Schengen that can make the change.
Chilio no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 10:51 AM   #331
Nikolaj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 288
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
I'm pretty sure it's not optional. Croatia will be required to join the Schengen Zone when the EU decide they are ready. The UK and Ireland negotiated opt-outs, but that is no longer possible for new EU members.
The Schengen treaty is not an integrated part of the EU Treaty, and by that not EU membership does not automatically lead to membership of the Schengen treaty. UK and Ireland has not negotiated opt-out, they have just never applied for membership of the Schengen treaty.

Croatia can - i they want - apply for membership if Schengen. Schengen is open also for non-EU members ie. Iceland and Norway.

As a curiosity, even though Schengen is not part of the EU treaty, it is however the EU Commission that oversea the implementation of the Schengen treaty.
Nikolaj no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 11:03 AM   #332
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,539
Likes (Received): 21253

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolaj View Post
Schengen is open also for non-EU members ie. Iceland and Norway.
And Liechtenstein and Monaco.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #333
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,624
Likes (Received): 19415

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
What, Netherlands and Finland are opposing? What's the reason? They don't trust Bulgaria and Romania???
Some populist politicians are currently convinced the current Schengen border with Romania is water tight and opening it will cause a massive influx of criminals.

In reality, the border controls are a joke anyway, so getting Romania and Bulgaria into Schengen will de-facto not change much. They have fulfilled all needs to enter the Schengen area.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 01:34 PM   #334
kreden
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 2,556
Likes (Received): 589

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolaj View Post
The Schengen treaty is not an integrated part of the EU Treaty, and by that not EU membership does not automatically lead to membership of the Schengen treaty. UK and Ireland has not negotiated opt-out, they have just never applied for membership of the Schengen treaty.

Croatia can - i they want - apply for membership if Schengen. Schengen is open also for non-EU members ie. Iceland and Norway.

As a curiosity, even though Schengen is not part of the EU treaty, it is however the EU Commission that oversea the implementation of the Schengen treaty.
No, Schengen rules are part of EU law from 1999 and every new member must enter.
kreden no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 01:35 PM   #335
zsmg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 82
Likes (Received): 1202

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Some populist politicians are currently convinced the current Schengen border with Romania is water tight and opening it will cause a massive influx of criminals.
To be fair Bulgaria and Romania still have a corruption problem (although the same can be said of ITaly and Greece :p ) and Schengen can be used as a carrot on a stick to convince them to do something about it (it's harder to convince countries to change when they're fully integrated into the EU)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolaj View Post
As a curiosity, even though Schengen is not part of the EU treaty, it is however the EU Commission that oversea the implementation of the Schengen treaty.
If EU institutions are used for Schengen than it is definitely an integrated part of the EU treaties even though it didn't start out that way.
zsmg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2011, 10:57 PM   #336
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

Quote:
Originally Posted by kreden View Post
No, Schengen rules are part of EU law from 1999 and every new member must enter.
Correct. The Schengen rules were incorporated into the EU treaties with the Treaty of Amsterdam. The UK and Ireland kept their opt-out.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 04:21 AM   #337
pobre diablo
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,533
Likes (Received): 316

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Some populist politicians are currently convinced the current Schengen border with Romania is water tight and opening it will cause a massive influx of criminals.
It's all your fault, Romania
pobre diablo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 04:23 PM   #338
MattiG
Registered User
 
MattiG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Espoo FI
Posts: 1,807
Likes (Received): 619

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilio View Post
What do you mean by that? This sounds like some cheap populistic crap that far-right politicians have filled your head with.
The whole Schengen system is based on protecting the outer perimeter. The protection is as weak as the weakest link.

The position of Romania and Bulgaria in the Corruption Perceptions Index compiled by Transparency International is really bad. The top20 performers have their score exceeding 7.5 at the scale of 0-10. Romania ranks globally #75 and #28 in Europe with the score of 3.6. For Bulgaria, the respective figures are #86, #30, and 3.3.

There is no reason to expect the corrupt border control authorities being able or willing to keep the perimeter non-leaking.

By the way, Greece is positioned between Romania and Bulgaria in this index. Greece as well should have been excluded from the Schegen area.
MattiG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 04:52 PM   #339
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Isn't it far more important to focus on keeping Europe together, seeing the current crisis, rather then even considering Schengen enlargement schemes?
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2011, 09:23 PM   #340
MrAkumana
Registered User
 
MrAkumana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: I'm a Nomad...?
Posts: 200
Likes (Received): 100

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
The whole Schengen system is based on protecting the outer perimeter. The protection is as weak as the weakest link.

The position of Romania and Bulgaria in the Corruption Perceptions Index compiled by Transparency International is really bad. The top20 performers have their score exceeding 7.5 at the scale of 0-10. Romania ranks globally #75 and #28 in Europe with the score of 3.6. For Bulgaria, the respective figures are #86, #30, and 3.3.

There is no reason to expect the corrupt border control authorities being able or willing to keep the perimeter non-leaking.

By the way, Greece is positioned between Romania and Bulgaria in this index. Greece as well should have been excluded from the Schegen area.
This is an abstract aproach to the idea of Schengen...

Let's focus on what's actually going on on the real world: I have been to the land border posts of Hungary (EU-Schengen) with Romania (EU-non Schengen). What kind of checks are needed for a UE citizen to cross from Romania into Hungary and the Schengen area? This: You show your ID or Passport, the guy in charge sees your face and let's your car pass the border into the Schengen area (from time to time ask to open the your trunk and takes a quick look). Ohhh, Big deal! I honestly can't see what difference could it actually make if Romania and Bulgaria were already part of Schengen.

Moreover ilegal non-EU inmigrants can easily walk trough the fields or rural roads into Hungary and the schengen area...

Suspicious trucks or cars can be (and usually are) stoped and checked by police and/or customs agents at any road/motorway of the schengen area.

So basically the problem is: some populist politicians (that know perfectly how things work in the real world) try to take advantage of naive voters that think that it really makes a difference in security from how things work already nowdays. Keeping Romania and Bulgaria out of schengen just makes it more difficult for them to get non-EU tourism and makes wait in line some minutes the average EU folk. That's the only difference...

So, I completely agree with the people that state that it there's no point or real gain on keeping Romania and Bulgaria out of Schengen. It's just insulting to hear politicians trying to make me believe in a world that it's no the way they want me to imagine...
__________________
"First things first, but not necessarily in that order" - The Doctor (Doctor Who)
MrAkumana no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium