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Old December 22nd, 2007, 11:56 AM   #81
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen669 View Post
In the Netherlands you officially can even be fined for not showing ID/passport WITHIN the borders.
That is the case in many countries.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 12:57 PM   #82
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Ok, I didn't know that.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 01:41 PM   #83
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I remember when I entered the UK through Stansted Airport back in August there was a 45-min queue at the passport control, for EU citizens.. If not anything else at least that would be eliminated if the UK joined Schengen.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 02:04 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by x-type View Post
Do you in the UK have ID cards? At web of Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs it's written that you can pass our border only with ID card
The passport only serves as an ID in this case. Any official ID will do.

Britain doesn't join Schengen because they want to control (third-country) immigration, and probably a bit of good old stubbornness. Ireland would have to leave the Common Travel Area with Britain (a "mini-Schengen") to join Schengen, which of course would be very impractical. Britain takes part in the SIS data sharing part of Schengen, so they get the "bad" parts but not the good ones
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 02:07 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Chris_533976 View Post
Fantastic

Britain wont join because of pig-headedness (sorry, but thats what it is ) and it isnt really sensible for Ireland to join without Britain joining
That's not so different: it's imposible to go to UK without using a plane, a boat, Eurostar or the Shuttle*. In all cases, you have to show your ID.
* Of course, you can choose to swim across the channel or to use your own boat or windsurf...but how many people do that each year ?
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:28 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
Just like the austrian motorway police,that uses the excuse "opposing the enforcement",when a hungarian doesnt speak german,and fines them to thousands of euros?
The first time I hear about that.
Do you have any source?
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:33 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
That's Austrians. For many of them is everybody from Ostblock at least mass murderer.
You should not be so generalizing towards Austria as our damn mass tabloid, the Kronenzeitung, is towards the new EU member states and its citizens. There are many who hate that paper for the ugly xenophoby it spreads day in and out.

I hate to see how our government currently acts towards our neighbor countries like the Czech republic or Hungary. It makes me feel ashamed in fact to see how they act.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:45 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
You should not be so generalizing towards Austria as our damn mass tabloid, the Kronenzeitung, is towards the new EU member states and its citizens. There are many who hate that paper for the ugly xenophoby it spreads day in and out.

I hate to see how our government currently acts towards our neighbor countries like the Czech republic or Hungary. It makes me feel ashamed in fact to see how they act.
Well, I've written: "for many of them." I know not everybody thinks it. For example yesterday I've seen on the Slovak news television TA3 mayor of Wolfsthal who even has Slovak wife ans is speaking very well Slovak and he said it's necessary to remove borders also form people's mind. However, I don't think that deploying Austrian army near borders or forbidding to pass border crossing Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau at night is way how to do it.


Last edited by Qwert; December 22nd, 2007 at 08:55 PM.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:51 PM   #89
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The attitude from Dutch media towards eastern Europe is also not that good, especially to Poles, as you read the papers, they are only drunk, creating a mess in neighborhoods and living with 15 people in one home or a van. It's really a shame, the people who criticize the most, have never actually been in those countries.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 10:01 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
The attitude from Dutch media towards eastern Europe is also not that good, especially to Poles, as you read the papers, they are only drunk, creating a mess in neighborhoods and living with 15 people in one home or a van. It's really a shame, the people who criticize the most, have never actually been in those countries.
No offence to anyone but Holland would be a shithold now, if it weren't the emigrants from the rest of the world. I think that Dutch media should consider it, but they seem to be very forgetful of the facts.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 01:49 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Qwert View Post
Well, I've written: "for many of them." I know not everybody thinks it. For example yesterday I've seen on the Slovak news television TA3 mayor of Wolfsthal who even has Slovak wife ans is speaking very well Slovak and he said it's necessary to remove borders also form people's mind.
I forgot if it was Wolfsthal, but a neighboring Austrian village to Bratislava wanted to make a large step forward in improving public transport to Bratislava now. The mayor could not expect that the Austrian post busses would not only refuse to serve that line (that was no problem they had found already someone else who would do so), but also that they forbid anyone else to serve it as they have the exclusive right of doing... what *******s... I think their is a case pending at the court because of that. I still hope that the position of the post busses is unholdable.

Quote:
I don't think that deploying Austrian army near borders
This step is largely criticized in Austria as well. Simply because its a farce and probably an unconstitutional farce as well. But if I can make you feel better, their presence their is meaningless anyway, every action except calling the police committed by them would be illegal. If that not helps perhaps it helps when I tell you that the Bavarians did also rise quite overreacted border region controls when we joined Schengen in 1998. They soon came to the conclusion that its not justified.

It seems our politicians are so afraid from the Krone and her xenophobe opinion dictate over Austria that they seem to think its worth to enrage the neighbors for something that is completely senseless.

Quote:
or forbidding to pass border crossing Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau at night is way how to do it.

Isn't that because of what the Hungarians wanted?
Maybe they even have a point, as its a nature protection area this is going through.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 06:24 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
The first time I hear about that.
Do you have any source?
I know only 1 case that made it to the internet. But in that case,a lawyer said its not the first. I dont know,and I dont really care. As much as I can tell from this case,they driver was speeding,so the police had legal basis to fine him(if this would happen at home,with a local,I'd even dare to say it is a good lesson for him).
BTW,on my way today coming home from eastern-Hungary,5 romanian SUVs drove over the limit,1 romanian Opel with a trailer(!!!),and a slovakian Skoda,not counting the local bullets. I dont know where is our police...
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 09:01 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
I know only 1 case that made it to the internet. But in that case,a lawyer said its not the first. I dont know,and I dont really care. As much as I can tell from this case,they driver was speeding,so the police had legal basis to fine him(if this would happen at home,with a local,I'd even dare to say it is a good lesson for him).
BTW,on my way today coming home from eastern-Hungary,5 romanian SUVs drove over the limit,1 romanian Opel with a trailer(!!!),and a slovakian Skoda,not counting the local bullets. I dont know where is our police...
You do know everybody speeds right?
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 09:18 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
I know only 1 case that made it to the internet. But in that case,a lawyer said its not the first. I dont know,and I dont really care. As much as I can tell from this case,they driver was speeding,so the police had legal basis to fine him(if this would happen at home,with a local,I'd even dare to say it is a good lesson for him).
BTW,on my way today coming home from eastern-Hungary,5 romanian SUVs drove over the limit,1 romanian Opel with a trailer(!!!),and a slovakian Skoda,not counting the local bullets. I dont know where is our police...
Well if they were too fast, then they have to be ready to pay the fine when being caught. Nothing wrong with that.

As I dont know anything about those cases, if they were forced to pay more than the original fine it might be because he was so clever and thought he might get away with refusing to pay.

If its one of those things I can't see something wrong. I strongly doubt someone has to pay anything if he does not speak German. If eg a Hungarian speeder thinks he can play stupid and refuse to pay the fine than thats something different. (Even if he doesn't speak a word German or English, its possible to make him realize that he has to pay a certain fine now)
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 11:02 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
You do know everybody speeds right?
I dont. Thats at least one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Well if they were too fast, then they have to be ready to pay the fine when being caught. Nothing wrong with that.

As I dont know anything about those cases, if they were forced to pay more than the original fine it might be because he was so clever and thought he might get away with refusing to pay.

If its one of those things I can't see something wrong. I strongly doubt someone has to pay anything if he does not speak German. If eg a Hungarian speeder thinks he can play stupid and refuse to pay the fine than thats something different. (Even if he doesn't speak a word German or English, its possible to make him realize that he has to pay a certain fine now)
I dont know if he did try to evade the fine or not. It happened,thats what I know.
BTW,I've found the documentation of the case...on the previous page
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...4&postcount=64
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 11:38 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
I forgot if it was Wolfsthal, but a neighboring Austrian village to Bratislava wanted to make a large step forward in improving public transport to Bratislava now. The mayor could not expect that the Austrian post busses would not only refuse to serve that line (that was no problem they had found already someone else who would do so), but also that they forbid anyone else to serve it as they have the exclusive right of doing... what *******s... I think their is a case pending at the court because of that. I still hope that the position of the post busses is unholdable.
Transport company of Bratislava wants to serve Wolfsthal and Hainburg, but some Austrian company refuses it because it has exlusive rights there. However, there is already bus connection of those little towns with Bratislava operated by company Slovak Lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
This step is largely criticized in Austria as well. Simply because its a farce and probably an unconstitutional farce as well. But if I can make you feel better, their presence their is meaningless anyway, every action except calling the police committed by them would be illegal. If that not helps perhaps it helps when I tell you that the Bavarians did also rise quite overreacted border region controls when we joined Schengen in 1998. They soon came to the conclusion that its not justified.

It seems our politicians are so afraid from the Krone and her xenophobe opinion dictate over Austria that they seem to think its worth to enrage the neighbors for something that is completely senseless.
I think it's populism from Austrian governemnt. I know those soldiers can do nothing. But, as some Austrians can appreciate it, some people in new Schengen countries can consider it as an offence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Isn't that because of what the Hungarians wanted?
Maybe they even have a point, as its a nature protection area this is going through.
Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau is very far from Hungary. It's small border crossing between Austria and Slovakia close to the Czech border. Here is map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...a9e994a505d37e Maybe it's due to protection fo nature, but why it was placed there on the day when Schengen was extended? The traffic there is very low, at night almost no and without trucks so I can see no point there. Both banks of river Morava are protected area. Niderosterreich offcials wanted Slovak officials to do the same, but they refused to do so.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 11:57 PM   #97
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Some interesting numbers from the new outer borders:
in the last 60 hours,border guards caught:
20 trespassers,out of which 19 tried to get into the Schengen zone,and 1 out
1 people smuggler
20 fake documents(romanian and bulgarian IDs and fake EU visas)
37 people who are banned from the Schengen zone
1 person missing
11 wanted criminals
many stolen cars and licence plates too.

There are bad news too. 20 trucks can get out in an hour to Ukraine,and 500 are waiting.
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Old December 24th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #98
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I recommend to watch this video form Schnegen border between Slovakia and Ukraine: http://www.sme.sk/video/?id=2351
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Old December 24th, 2007, 12:36 AM   #99
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The only bad thing we've had is that one people who was forbidden to entry Estonia still managed to do it, but that's it.
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Old December 24th, 2007, 12:44 AM   #100
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Hmmm somehow it kinda feels like to me that the iron curtain still exist, only now it forms the outer borders of Schengen.

Though i am glad with the current expansion of Schengen, it makes trade and national markets in eastern europe much more accessible, something that will work out for everybody's welfare in the future, though we (= western Europe) are now struggling with a lot of work immigrants from especially Poland, but that's just a temporary phase i think.

Overtime, when Poland economy will reach the same welfare level as in western Europe, this work immigration will end. We went through the same in late 80's when Spain and Portugal joined the EU. This is just a matter of time and patience.

I hope they will have that patience in Eastern Europe too, sometimes you read about people expecting to have the same welfare as in Western Europe within a few years. That might not be true, it takes time, we (=western/northern Europe) worked for decades to reach the welfare level we have now.
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