ASEAN Regional News

[Mehome]

Originally Posted by xxxriainxxx

However if you read through page 23 - number 6 - it details the massive casualties inflicted by Indonesian forces on the Timorese where about 100,000-200,000 Timorese were killed due to, quoting the ICJ- "indiscriminate Indonesian bombings, to famine and to disease". Also you may want to note that on that report - it minced no words in mentioning Indonesia's "genocidal policy against the East Timorese people with total and systemic disregard of the most elementary human rights."

Thanks for the links tho, the only link that worked was the one from ICJ which is basically Portugal erroneously blaming Australia because Australia did not do anything to stop the genocide in Timor.

Riain, what do you want? do you want us to believe your perspective and refuse the facts that your innocent Aussie stab us in the back in many ways? Do you want us to refuse the facts that your beloved Aussie is the one who very passionate about oil reserves in the Timor sea???

And about human rights, do you really think that Indonesia is that cruel? Do you really want to know who was sending money, and weapons to Indonesia in assisting Indonesia on that annexation???

[xxxriainxxx]

Originally Posted by wawawa

if we knew they have this oil reserve, we would have exploited it already... the fact is that Indonesia only pour money to ET and didn't take any natural resource....please provide me with information when and how much Indonesia took ET oil... please, I'm waiting... (getting impatience, I'm)...

I'm actually glad that they're free now since they became a pain in the ass, especially when I compare them to West Timor... West Timor received peanuts while we built ET infrastructure... though I don't agree with TNI behavior in destroying ET infrastructure, I can understand it still I know so well how much money Indonesian gov't spent in that region...perhaps TNI thought if you don't want to become part of us, don't use our built infrastructure....

First I posted the natural resources as a response to Erran's message answer to my post, this is what he said -

TL never really attracted to Indonesia IMO, that area was/is not "rich" (both Natural and Human resources).

Whether, Indonesia siphoned off its natural resources isn't relevant to the earlier statements.

Secondly, if Timor Leste isn't that important then why invade it? I don't get the logic behind that.

Thirdly, please tell me that the genocide in Timor Leste from the invasion through the occupation and at during the referendum for independence did not happen because no matter where I look, the staggering numbers of deaths from massacres, rapes, bombings are all there.

I am getting impatient too- this is similar to our problems with Japan who would never publicly acknowledge the atrocities they committed in the Philippines during the last war.

The Timorese may have forgiven the Indonesian military and government, but I just cant accept that history needs to be rewritten and horrible things just consigned to the dustbin. They say, history is written by victors, I think I just expect fairness from everyone. To gloss over (worse, deny) something appalling is just very disrespectful.

You still remember the atrocities committed by the Dutch to Indonesians- now the shoe is on the other foot- should atrocities against Timorese be forgotten too? It's not right, right?

Originally Posted by patchay

While other ASEAN nations "may" become undecisive and un-united, I hope Truly Asia (Malaysia) can be "best friend forever" with Truly Tiger (Singapore).

Truly Boring (Brunei) also included.

No, we are not forming any economic/investment cartel, or whatever you called it, just complimenting each other as friends/cultural cousins for our mutual benefits and the greater Asean.

Speaking of Singapore-

Didn't Tunku Abdul Rahman basically severed Singapore from the Federation of Malaya? With friends like these, who needs....

Originally Posted by anak_mm

oo sa singapore yan, heto pa
image hosted on flickr

House on stilts by mollyali, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

A tradtional kelong by vanvoon_lee, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Year 2007: Pulau Ubin. Offshore Island of Singapore. The neglected Island. by williamcho, on Flickr

[wawawa]

I am still waiting on information how much Indonesia took East Timor oil... while waiting, I spend my time reading these news (mind you xxxriainxxx, those articles weren't written by Indonesians):

Australia bullies East Timor over oil and gas
By John Ward and Peter Symonds
7 February 2003

The Australian government is deliberately delaying the signing of an agreement with East Timor, known as the Timor Sea Treaty, as a means of blackmailing the small, newly independent country into conceding a greater share of off-shore oil and gas reserves to Canberra.
The treaty, which was agreed last May, was due to be ratified by both sides by the end of last year. The East Timorese parliament carried out its side of the bargain and formally approved the document in December. Australia still has not. As a result, contracts potentially worth billions of dollars are being placed in jeopardy, threatening the main source of revenue for the impoverished half-island.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/fe...timo-f07.shtml


Australia - Peacekeeper or Petroleum Predator?
Analysis by Kalinga Seneviratne

SYDNEY, Jun 22, 2006 (IPS) - A two month old rebellion by sacked army officials and police deserters in East Timor, one of the world's newest and poorest countries, has resulted in an Australian-led "peacekeeping" force arrival in its capital Dili, and a media-supported push for ‘regime change'.

Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri, a Muslim leading a predominantly Catholic country, is the leader of the Fretilin Party which fought for independence from Indonesia for over two decades, and which won a landslide victory in the first legislative elections in 2001.

In Australian media reports, which in turn influence regional and international reporting of the issue, the crisis in East Timor is painted as an internal power struggle where an "unpopular" Prime Minister is opposed by a peoples' movement. The words "oil" and "gas" are hardly mentioned in these reports, even though this is at the heart of the Australian intervention.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33714


How much oil money has Australia stolen from East Timor already?
A look at Laminaria-Corallina

Osan hira mak Australia nauk ona husi Timor-Leste?
Hare ba Laminaria-Corallina

Calculations by La’o Hamutuk, January 2011.
The Laminaria-Corallina oil field in the Timor Sea is just outside the Joint Petroleum Development Area, twice as close to East Timor as it is to Australia. It belongs to East Timor under current international legal principles (UNCLOS). Laminaria-Corallina has produced 197 million barrels of oil since starting production in late 1999, and is now about 95% depleted. Australia has made billions of dollars from this field, but East Timor has not received one cent.

http://www.laohamutuk.org/Oil/Bounda...a_revenues.htm



East Timorese aren't fool, they know they can't depend on Australia, that's why they increase cooperation with China and TNI... they even bought military weapons from Indonesia....

[xxxriainxxx]

Originally Posted by Mehome

Riain, what do you want? do you want us to believe your perspective and refuse the facts that your innocent Aussie stab us in the back in many ways? Do you want us to refuse the facts that your beloved Aussie is the one who very passionate about oil reserves in the Timor sea???

And about human rights, do you really think that Indonesia is that cruel? Do you really want to know who was sending money, and weapons to Indonesia in assisting Indonesia on that annexation???

What I want is for Indonesia to acknowledge the atrocities committed in Timor Leste.The invasion and the policy of silence from the western powers were due to the Cold War. While the deafening silence from the rest of the world was deplorable especially from Western countries whose leaders basically supported it- 1974- (The Philippines was under martial law then)- the campaign of repression, rape and murder weren't carried out by other troops.

[xxxriainxxx]

Originally Posted by wawawa

I am still waiting on information how much Indonesia took East Timor oil... while waiting, I spend my time reading these news (mind you xxxriainxxx, those articles weren't written by Indonesians):

Australia bullies East Timor over oil and gas
By John Ward and Peter Symonds
7 February 2003

The Australian government is deliberately delaying the signing of an agreement with East Timor, known as the Timor Sea Treaty, as a means of blackmailing the small, newly independent country into conceding a greater share of off-shore oil and gas reserves to Canberra.
The treaty, which was agreed last May, was due to be ratified by both sides by the end of last year. The East Timorese parliament carried out its side of the bargain and formally approved the document in December. Australia still has not. As a result, contracts potentially worth billions of dollars are being placed in jeopardy, threatening the main source of revenue for the impoverished half-island.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/fe...timo-f07.shtml


Australia - Peacekeeper or Petroleum Predator?
Analysis by Kalinga Seneviratne

SYDNEY, Jun 22, 2006 (IPS) - A two month old rebellion by sacked army officials and police deserters in East Timor, one of the world's newest and poorest countries, has resulted in an Australian-led "peacekeeping" force arrival in its capital Dili, and a media-supported push for ‘regime change'.

Prime Minister Mari Alkatiri, a Muslim leading a predominantly Catholic country, is the leader of the Fretilin Party which fought for independence from Indonesia for over two decades, and which won a landslide victory in the first legislative elections in 2001.

In Australian media reports, which in turn influence regional and international reporting of the issue, the crisis in East Timor is painted as an internal power struggle where an "unpopular" Prime Minister is opposed by a peoples' movement. The words "oil" and "gas" are hardly mentioned in these reports, even though this is at the heart of the Australian intervention.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33714


How much oil money has Australia stolen from East Timor already?
A look at Laminaria-Corallina

Osan hira mak Australia nauk ona husi Timor-Leste?
Hare ba Laminaria-Corallina

Calculations by La’o Hamutuk, January 2011.
The Laminaria-Corallina oil field in the Timor Sea is just outside the Joint Petroleum Development Area, twice as close to East Timor as it is to Australia. It belongs to East Timor under current international legal principles (UNCLOS). Laminaria-Corallina has produced 197 million barrels of oil since starting production in late 1999, and is now about 95% depleted. Australia has made billions of dollars from this field, but East Timor has not received one cent.

http://www.laohamutuk.org/Oil/Bounda...a_revenues.htm



East Timorese aren't fool, they know they can't depend on Australia, that's why they increase cooperation with China and TNI... they even bought military weapons from Indonesia....

By the way, why do I need to prove to you how much natural resources Indonesia took from Timor Leste?

Erran said there were no natural resources in Timor anyway so I posted that-


As for mining companies, oil companies- whether they are Australian or not- I do not have a single ounce of respect for any of them. Australian mining companies pretty much raped Nauru which is nothing but a barren wasteland now. They tried doing that in the Philippines and they had limited success. Heck, even Australians oppose big mining companies - Gillard just introduced the carbon tax to the chagrin of these companies.

[CrazyForID]

Originally Posted by RonnieR

Guys, I suggest we move on and leave the discussion about East Timor.

This will be my first and last post about East Timor.

It cannot be denied that Indonesia pumped significant amount of money to that province before ET became independent.

The hardships and difficulties that ET is facing right now are just natural "birth pains" for a new nation.

I sincerely hope that ET won't become a "failed state".

By the way, I have a colleague who is working right now in ET. They are into export of coffee. US Dollar and Indonesian Rupiah are accepted currencies there.

second this

[Mehome]

Originally Posted by xxxriainxxx

Thirdly, please tell me that the genocide in Timor Leste from the invasion through the occupation and at during the referendum for independence did not happen because no matter where I look, the staggering numbers of deaths from massacres, rapes, bombings are all there.

Genocide? No, the real historical truth is that there was no East Timorese genocide, but most of them were killed are the rebels/ separatist, just like the MILF in the Philippines

At least 100,000 people are estimated to have died in the conflict in Mindanao, with some estimates exceeding 150,000 deaths. Two million people are estimated to have been displaced by the four decade-long conflict in the South.

http://www.ploughshares.ca/content/p...-deaths#Deaths

[xxxriainxxx]

More Singapore photos:

Goodnight!

Originally Posted by anak_mm

Singapore, Parang Pinas
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fiftymm99/4783007462/

image hosted on flickr

Ubin Town by wildsingapore, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/hurriyetok/5766236079/

[xxxriainxxx]

Originally Posted by Mehome

Genocide? No, the real historical truth is that there was no East Timorean genocide, but most of them were killed are the rebels/ separatist, just like the MILF in the Philippines


http://www.ploughshares.ca/content/p...-deaths#Deaths

100,000-200,000 deaths happened just during the years of the invasion. Please check ICJ link you gave me earlier.

Cheers!

[wawawa]

Originally Posted by xxxriainxxx

What I want is for Indonesia to acknowledge the atrocities committed in Timor Leste.The invasion and the policy of silence from the western powers were due to the Cold War. While the deafening silence from the rest of the world was deplorable especially from Western countries whose leaders basically supported it- 1974- (The Philippines was under martial law then)- the campaign of repression, rape and murder weren't carried out by other troops.

xxxriainxxx, I don't understand what do you want actually?

Indonesia says it accepts blame for bloodbath in East Timor
VIOLENCE

April 18, 1999

DILI, Indonesia CNN Indonesia accepted blame on Sunday for bloody violence that killed dozens of people in East Timor, a senioraide to President B.J. Habibie said.

Its true, its our responsibility because we are the onlyones here, Dewi Fortuna Anwar told Reuters. He said Indonesia remains committed to a U.N.brokered peace process.

A dozen people were reported killed Saturday in a renewed bout of violence over whether East Timor should break away at least in part from Indonesia.

http://articles.cnn.com/1999-04-18/w...se?_s=PM:WORLD

[bagak]

Originally Posted by xxxriainxxx

Secondly, if Timor Leste isn't that important then why invade it? I don't get the logic behind that.

Hints: 1975 - Communism - US - Soviet

[wawawa]

because you just gave us an impression that Indonesia is a devil and Australia is an angel....

so if Indonesia is that bad, provide us information on how much and when Indonesia took East Timor oil as what Australia does...

mining companies? why only blame them? oil robbery is related to the problem of borders between ET and Australia... it's about Australian government! read those articles carefully please...

Originally Posted by xxxriainxxx

By the way, why do I need to prove to you how much natural resources Indonesia took from Timor Leste?

Erran said there were no natural resources in Timor anyway so I posted that-


As for mining companies, oil companies- whether they are Australian or not- I do not have a single ounce of respect for any of them. Australian mining companies pretty much raped Nauru which is nothing but a barren wasteland now. They tried doing that in the Philippines and they had limited success. Heck, even Australians oppose big mining companies - Gillard just introduced the carbon tax to the chagrin of these companies.

[Mehome]

Originally Posted by xxxriainxxx

100,000-200,000 deaths happened just during the years of the invasion. Please check ICJ link you gave me earlier.

Cheers!

no matter what ICJ say, they were the rebels from our perspective. Problem?

[bagak]

Originally Posted by patchay

and lately... Indonesia cards... Indonesia cards... in the name of Asean integration and "brotherhood" - similar blood/race, culture, religion, language, passion for football, passion to tease and insult, etc.

Sarcasm.

230 million and no one give a damn about this "brotherhood" its only the malays who keeps yelling this thing, while the indonesian is the other way around.... lol...

[patchay]

By showing those "pics" from Singapore, I really don't know what Riain wants? Singapore poorer than the Philippines?

Anyway if you follow Malaysia-Singapore news, the bilateral relationship is undergoing a new chapter. Forget Mahathir and Kuan Yew, as both of these veterans are about to see their Makers in let's say few years from now.

In KL property fairs over this year, many Singaporean families on vacation here have dropped by to enquire about investing in Truly Asia. I strongly believe the recently signed POA between Malaysia and Singapore governments have been a very good "litmus test" for future collaborations. According to an insider, POA even mentioned about future collaborations on the High Speed Rail on former Malaysian-owned land in Singapore.

Anyway, I think Malaysia supports Indonesia's goodwill in Timor Leste, and other Big Powers should not interfere in Indonesia's internal affairs.

[Mehome]

Originally Posted by bagak

230 million and no one give a damn about this "brotherhood" its only the malays who keeps yelling this thing, while the indonesian is the other way around.... lol...

brotherhood? What brotherhood?? Hahaha sorry j/k

[wawawa]

Originally Posted by bagak

230 million and no one give a damn about this "brotherhood" its only the malays who keeps yelling this thing, while the indonesian is the other way around.... lol...

that's why he said 'sarcasm'...

no, sorry for disagreeing with you, i believe there are many indonesians who still think malaysians are brothers/sisters... especially malays in eastern coast of sumatra and traders in pasar tanah abang jakarta and pasar baru bandung...

[patchay]

Originally Posted by bagak

230 million and no one give a damn about this "brotherhood" its only the malays who keeps yelling this thing, while the indonesian is the other way around.... lol...

Originally Posted by Mehome

brotherhood? What brotherhood?? Hahaha sorry j/k

Why not put it this way... Islam preaches "brotherhood" and since both sides are Muslims, thus Muslim brotherhood.

Sorry I'm not Muslim, but Malaysian Chinese yet I can see the positive, mutual benefits coming from this nation-to-nation friendship. Do you?

[wawawa]

Originally Posted by patchay

By showing those "pics" from Singapore, I really don't know what Riain wants? Singapore poorer than the Philippines?

Anyway if you follow Malaysia-Singapore news, the bilateral relationship is undergoing a new chapter. Forget Mahathir and Kuan Yew, as both of these veterans are about to see their Makers in let's say few years from now.

In KL property fairs over this year, many Singaporean families on vacation here have dropped by to enquire about investing in Truly Asia. I strongly believe the recently signed POA between Malaysia and Singapore governments have been a very good "litmus test" for future collaborations. According to an insider, POA even mentioned about future collaborations on the High Speed Rail on former Malaysian-owned land in Singapore.

Anyway, I think Malaysia supports Indonesia's goodwill in Timor Leste, and other Big Powers should not interfere in Indonesia's internal affairs.

if i'm not mistaken, malaysia was part of peace keeping force in ET, and it was a demand from indonesia and also to support indonesia, that it's not only western powers which was present in ET...

[Mehome]

Originally Posted by patchay

Why not put it this way... Islam preaches "brotherhood" and since both sides are Muslims, thus Muslim brotherhood.

Sorry I'm not Muslim, but Malaysian Chinese yet I can see the positive, mutual benefits coming from this nation-to-nation friendship. Do you?

No, I cannot see the mutual benefits