Guangzhou - Shenzhen - Hong Kong High Speed Rail

[Longershanks]

Incheon was one perhaps. Shenzhen does not really count as it filled a desperate need and would never of happened without Hong Kong. It was not re-located but created.

I will stay a transport interchange for a long time.

With a decent busway / BRT system at each end the journey time from financial centre to financial centre could be 90 mins.

[EricIsHim]

The HSR terminal isn't going to relocate the train service from the existing terminals in the area. Services will still be going to the existing terminals.

The HSR is going to create a whole new business district, rather than trying to move and consolidate the three city centers.

[hkskyline]

How about other CRH trains arriving at Guangzhou? Will they be relocated there? I presume the CRH network will extend north and east from Guangzhou. How will the alignment work? Can they create another major station in Tianhe further down the line?

[Longershanks]

A new HSR system is not designed for urban commuters which is what HK needs. Most HK residents fly into mainland cities and will continue to do so.

Wuhan 7 hours by train (guessing station will be 1 hour from downtown) or 4.5 hours flying. Hopefully not another example of HK Gov implementing without thinking and standing up for what it needs.

[hkskyline]

The whole network is interconnected. Hong Kongers may not train to Wuhan but Guangzhou residents may train to Changsha along the way. The key is how accessible are these stations to residents? If the Hong Kong line terminates outside Guangzhou, perhaps they can transfer to another CRH to a more central Guangzhou station that happens to sit on the Guangzhou - Wuhan line?

[hkskyline]

Opinion : Express rail link will generate huge economic benefits for HK
20 August 2009
South China Morning Post

I refer to the article on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link ("The $39b question no one asked", August 18).

The primary objective of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link is to connect Hong Kong with the mainland's 12,000-kilometre high-speed rail network. The new Guangzhou terminus at Shibi is designed to be a mega transportation hub, well served by national high-speed rail lines, Guangdong inter-city rail networks, the metro lines of Guangzhou and Foshan , buses and coaches, and a number of major highways. In fact, it will become one of the four biggest passenger transport centres in the country.

In future, commuters from Hong Kong will be able to switch from Shibi to the proposed Beijing-Guangzhou passenger line, reaching Wuhan in five hours and Beijing in 10 hours, which is much shorter than at present. The new metro and inter-city lines being planned by the mainland authorities will provide convenient access to different parts of Guangzhou and a fast connection with other cities in Guangdong.

Shibi is under rapid transformation. It is situated at the heart of the Guangzhou and Foshan metropolitan zone. As a focal point of national and regional traffic, it will be developed into a major city centre and a travellers' destination in its own right. The construction of a comprehensive development area of 11.4 square kilometres around the Shibi hub started earlier this year, which is positioned as another commercial centre of Guangzhou.

As for the Hong Kong section of the express rail link, we are working to start its construction in late 2009 for completion in 2015. The rail link will reduce the travelling time to key cities in the Pearl River Delta region and beyond. It is expected that it will generate huge economic benefits in the order of HK$80 billion over 50 years for Hong Kong, in terms of time saving.

Over the years, we have been keeping the Legislative Council and the public informed of the development of this express rail link and will continue to do so. As a matter of fact, that rail link will join up with the national and regional transport systems at Shibi, as was reported to Legco as early as April 2005, shortly after an agreement was reached with the mainland authorities in March of that year.

Yau Shing-mu, acting Secretary for Transport and Housing

[Longershanks]

"The primary objective of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link is to connect Hong Kong with the mainland's 12,000-kilometre high-speed rail network"

Is that what HK needs or Beijing wants? Why does HK need linking to the high speed rail network at the expense of a intercity service?

Will be great for a factory Owner in Humen, Foshan or Panyu, but those that need to get from centre to centre (the majority of potential users) it is of limited benefit.

[Rachmaninov]

Originally Posted by Longershanks

"The primary objective of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link is to connect Hong Kong with the mainland's 12,000-kilometre high-speed rail network"

Is that what HK needs or Beijing wants? Why does HK need linking to the high speed rail network at the expense of a intercity service?

Will be great for a factory Owner in Humen, Foshan or Panyu, but those that need to get from centre to centre (the majority of potential users) it is of limited benefit.

You can try emailing the Secretary for T&H and see. Make sure to post the reply here though!

[hkskyline]

Opinion : Better to make express rail link part of the existing network
28 August 2009
SCMP

In his letter ("Express rail link will generate huge economic benefits for HK", August 20), Yau Shing-mu, acting secretary for transport and housing, completely misses the point of your article on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link ("The $39b question no one asked", August 18).

His justification failed to address the HK$39 billion cost for the Hong Kong section.

Better patronage could be gained at a fraction of the cost by locating the terminus at Kam Sheung Road and using the existing and improved rail network to connect to the majority of travellers' destinations, as opposed to the less convenient and expensive deep underground station planned for West Kowloon.

An interchange to West Rail at Kam Sheung Road would provide good access to New Territories West, thus satisfying the justified complaints from residents in these areas over the lack of a station on the proposed line to Kowloon and would also give direct connections to Tsuen Wan and to West and South Kowloon.

An extension of the airport line from Tsing Yi to Kam Sheung Road would give a direct connection to Hong Kong Island and Chek Lap Kok. Longer term, an East Rail extension to Kam Sheung Road, via the Northern Link, would give access to New Territories East.

A terminus at Kam Sheung Road would be operationally superior to one at West Kowloon and cheaper and quicker to construct, thus making the hoped for 2015-16 completion date a real possibility.

Better and quicker access to most of Hong Kong would be at the expense of saving a few minutes travelling to West Kowloon. This is nothing compared to the 45-minute journey from Shibi to central Guangzhou or the five hours to Wuhan or 10 hours to Beijing.

So why did the Legislative Council not vote for it?

The reason is simple; they were never given this as an option.

Now is the time for our Legco members to ask the question why and bring about changes to reduce costs, and give Hong Kong a better rail system sooner.

Ronald Taylor, Western

[Longershanks]

the link from Kam Sheung Road to LMC would benefit a large number of people trying to get to SZ, and would significantly reduce journey time from TST to the border at a frction of the cost of the new high speed link. Any reason why this lower cost option was not done 1st? Who is deciding transport policy for HK?

TSTE - KSR 21 mins (+7 to LMC) 28 mins
TSTE - LMC 48 mins

If this link was put in it might significantly reduce the patronage on the Kowloon to Futian section of the new line.

Also why do Beijing to Tianjin get a HSR system from urban area to urban area but not HK / GZ.

[Longershanks]

Cost of Kam Sheung Road to LMC link $9 billion and would be a huge benefit to many. HSR - dodgy projected numbers and great for a factory owner in Foshan and a train spotter with time on his hands to get to BJ.

Imagine if HK Gov had decided the BJ - Tianjin link would not be centre to centre but stop 2/3's the way in the middle of nowhere, the mayor's of BJ and TJ would politely tell HK Gov what they thought of the plan and get it changed. Central planning is great!

[Longershanks]

Originally Posted by EricIsHim

Approx. 15km

Surely Kam Sheung Road to LMC link would be the best service for reducing travel time to GZ

[hkskyline]

High-speed Guangzhou train may cost more than existing link
20 September 2009
South China Morning Post

Passengers might have to pay more to ride on the planned high-speed Hong Kong-to-Guangzhou rail link than on the existing through train, a senior official said.

But the government would not seek to quickly recover the cost of the HK$39.5 billion it will spend on the Hong Kong leg of the planned Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express railway, Undersecretary for Transport and Housing Yau Shing-mu said.

Speaking on an RTHK programme, Yau said the planned new railway would alleviate heavy passenger traffic on the East Rail, which carried about 220,000 travellers to Lo Wu daily. The link would also connect Hong Kong to the high-speed and high-frequency inter-city network on the mainland, he said.

The Transport and Housing Bureau has projected that 99,000 passengers would use the planned new link daily in 2016. The new rail link will halve travelling time to Guangzhou to 48 minutes.

"The express rail is going to be more convenient than the current MTR through-train service [which costs HK$190 per trip]," he said. "It may charge a higher fare - but a final decision has not been made yet."

Yau said officials aimed to operate a competitive rail link and attract passengers to the new service.

Concerns have been aired that construction of the planned new express link will cost much more than originally budgeted. Government engineers said some time ago the cost could top HK$60 billion. Yau would not reveal the latest cost estimates but admitted that they might be higher than originally envisaged.

[maldini]

Originally Posted by EricIsHim

The HSR terminal isn't going to relocate the train service from the existing terminals in the area. Services will still be going to the existing terminals.

The HSR is going to create a whole new business district, rather than trying to move and consolidate the three city centers.

Is there are HSR stations in Foshan and Panyu? Does Shibi station serve all three cities so that they don't need to have their own station?

[Longershanks]

Shibi serves greater Gaungzhou for people who need to take an inter province train i.e. not businessmen who want centre to centre transport systems, and not HK people as they have an airport.

[Kaitak747]

The creepy design of the HSR HK terminus













西九車站研成大珠三角樞紐
(星島)2009年9月22日 星期二 05:30

(綜合報道)

(星島日報 報道)規劃署 委託的課題組專家昨在「大珠三角 區域規劃研討會」中提出，擬定的廣深港高速鐵路香港段總站－西九龍車站，應解決通關及行政問題，由香港本地樞紐進一步拓展成大珠三角樞紐，以接通大珠三角交通網絡。同時，又建議車站應好好打造「車站經濟」，將單純的乘客上落車地點發展成商鋪、娛樂場所等混集一身的多元化公共空間。

　　昨日獲邀出席「大珠三角區域規劃研討會」的有粵港澳及珠三角九市（廣州、深圳 、珠海、東莞、佛山、惠州、中山、江門和肇慶）的相關政府官員、專家學者及業內人士，分別就「促進區域協調發展」及「構建區域綜合交通運輸系統」出謀獻策。其中受規劃署委託研究大珠三角區域鐵路網絡與城市發展的課題組－理大 中國商業中心亦有參與會議。

　　打造「車站經濟」

　　該課題組專家指出，大珠三角的軌道交通發展，有助拉近各站之間距離，中和空間的因素，改變各地競爭與合作關係。本港的高鐵總站西九龍車站，除發展成本地交通樞紐外，更應解決通關問題，抵銷行政界線束縛，將車站打造成大珠三角的綜合樞紐，接上區內龐大交通網絡。

　　針對西九龍車站的本土規劃，課題組專家續建議，車站宜規劃為城市中心，在車站周邊騰出空間發展商鋪及娛樂場所等，藉此打造「車站經濟」，令車站不止是一個乘客上落車的地方，更是一個多元化的公共空間。發展局局長林鄭月娥 為研討會致辭時指，希望粵港澳三地在資源開發、環保及交通基建上作出協調，優勢互補，達致改善民生的目標。

　　另外，浸大當代中國研究所所長薛鳳旋指出，交通協同發展運輸系統，能有助推動大珠三角發展成全國最大的物流中心及先進製造基地，但必先要解決區內城市間及城市內部的交通銜接及規管問題。以區內的五大機場為例，五方定位應清晰分立，從而錯位發展，比如香港定位為國際航空中心，廣州與深圳則分別主力發展國內物流及國際物流等。本報記者

[Longershanks]

Why such a huge building?

Surely just two platforms Arrival & departure. I suspect the passengers will have to run a gauntlet of shops to catch a train or leave the place.

[caelus]

Can't say I'm surprised about the design of the terminus, it looks just like Hung Hom station, conservative, cheap & tacky, typical HK style......... I'm afraid the west kowloon culture district will pretty much end up looking like this...........

[Rachmaninov]

鄭汝樺：高鐵非「駁腳艇仔」
(星島)2009年9月24日 星期四 05:30
(綜合報道)

(星島日報 報道)廣深港高速鐵路並非「駁腳艇仔」，是真正與國家高鐵經濟接軌的項目。運輸及房屋局 局長鄭汝樺 接受本報訪問透露，按目前國家高速鐵路網規劃，高鐵港段落成後，乘客毋須在廣州或深圳 轉駁內地高鐵線，一車直達北京 、上海 、鄭州、成都等十六個內地主要城市，「是在西九龍上車，不停站，十小時直達北京先落車」，每日目標合共對發三十三對列車。她指出，高鐵將帶動內地客來港，促進六大產業發展。

　　記者：陳意婷

　　國家的「四縱四橫」高速鐵路網正進行得如火如荼，全國高鐵總長足達一萬二千公里以上。鄭汝樺昨日表示，擬建的廣深港高速鐵路走線正好與國家高鐵網的其中「兩縱」相連，其中深圳龍華站與國家杭福深客運專線相連；廣州石壁站就與國家京廣客運專線接駁。將來高鐵香港段落城後，除了有直通車接通深圳及廣州，更會有長途直通車直達北京、上海、鄭州、成都等十六個內地主要城市。

　　不停站十小時到北京

　　「目標是在二○一六年高鐵落成，就已經有直通車去到這十六個城市！」她指出，長途直通車的每日對發數目為三十三對，但相信在通車初期數目較少，部分城市會一日一對，武漢等較大的城市就會一日兩對，至於需求最高的上海、北京則會每日多達五對列車。再加上每十五分鐘一班往深圳的列車，以及每三十分鐘一班往石壁的列車，在西九龍總站每天往來的列車估計多達過百對。倘客量需求大更再可加密班次。

　　日後本港高鐵系統更會仿效日本 鐵路模式，設特急、急行、快速及普通列車之分。鄭汝樺解釋，例如往深圳龍華、虎門等站的就會「站站停」；往廣州石壁站就已有不停站列車，確保乘客四十八分鐘到抵廣州；往十六個內地城市的長途直通車，有者只停少量中途站，有者甚至會不停站直達目的地。而短途列車一列擬設八卡，載客量達到六百人，長途的更預計會多出一倍，「真的一列列內地客送來香港參加展覽，見銀行家、律師、旅遊等」，他們帶來的龐大經濟效益是無法計算的。

　　不會成虧損「大白象」

　　兩個月前，港府更已由路政署牽頭，與國家鐵道部成立一個常設的專家小組，專門合作研究長途直通車的建築標準、維修、位置設定等細節。鄭汝樺強調，外界毋須擔心本港高鐵會成為台灣 高鐵的翻版，成為虧損「大白象」，因為一則台灣高鐵只行走於台灣本土範圍之內，而本港高鐵則是接駁高經濟增長的內地市場；其次是台灣高鐵因客量不足，加上債台高築，招至虧損，但本港高鐵是由政府全資興建，無欠債之憂。

　　鄭汝樺重申：「高鐵真的要上馬了，不應再受其他議題所牽絆，高鐵是一個長遠策略性經濟發展，打通本港與內地高鐵經濟命脈的項目」，有助長遠帶動本港及內地的經濟活動。

From http://hk.news.yahoo.com/article/090923/3/edk1.html

[Rachmaninov]

Originally Posted by Longershanks

Why such a huge building?

Surely just two platforms Arrival & departure. I suspect the passengers will have to run a gauntlet of shops to catch a train or leave the place.

Don't always be so sure. Look at this again?