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Old June 11th, 2009, 10:44 PM   #461
Mateusz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red-Lion View Post
tomato potato etc...

Every country can define it's own standard of motorways. Russia does not have the best motorways, but at least they have a lot of new, and good, motorways under construction/newly contructed.

Russian definition of motorway is not the same as the european/american definition.

So many roads would get classified russian motorway, but would not be classified as motorways in other countries.

wikipedia


I think all roads starting with M and something are classified as motorways but many of these are clearly not motorways of the "standard" definition.
M-roads are main national roads with importance for international traffic. In Russia, same like in Ukraine, motorways also take the M-prefix
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Old June 11th, 2009, 10:54 PM   #462
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M-roads are Magistrales, which COULD be up to motorway standards, but are not necessarily motorways. At least that's how I interpreter the Russian road network.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 11:00 PM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
M-roads are Magistrales, which COULD be up to motorway standards, but are not necessarily motorways. At least that's how I interpreter the Russian road network.
No.

Some M-roads in Russia are not even close to motorway standards, not talking about their quality.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 11:03 PM   #464
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Yes.

Because not all M-roads are meant to be motorways
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Old June 11th, 2009, 11:14 PM   #465
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^ Exactly.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 11:18 PM   #466
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Well, that's what I said, right?
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Old June 11th, 2009, 11:23 PM   #467
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Yes, Chris you said the right thing.
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Old June 11th, 2009, 11:31 PM   #468
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Are they mental or what? How could anyone in their sane mind come up with a marking like that?
I agree, it looks quite dangerous.
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Old June 12th, 2009, 12:04 AM   #469
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Don't forget that also such roads exist in Russia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djKmn...eature=related

It is also M road, isn't it?
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Old June 12th, 2009, 12:06 AM   #470
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Yeah, but such roads are not even considered motorways in Russia. It's just a bad-quality Magistrale.
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Old June 12th, 2009, 06:42 AM   #471
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Also, vast majority of rural interstates here in the USA do not have median barriers, rather using wide grassy spaces between the two sides.

Canada uses very similar standards on their rural motorways, too.

Mike
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Old June 12th, 2009, 05:32 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yeah, but such roads are not even considered motorways in Russia. It's just a bad-quality Magistrale.

And toll motorway M10 will be built so I guess this is a reason why it isn't state of art road really
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Old June 12th, 2009, 06:26 PM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warsawbynight View Post
The lanes must be divided with crashbarriers and that is what is almost always missing on Russian "motorways"
I agree with you that Russian roads are quite bad in general, and that a large portion of their "motorway" network doesn't actually consist of proper motorways.

HOWEVER, this particular point (about the central crash barriers) is not really true. In many parts of the world, it is permitted to have a wide grass median between opposing lanes of traffic, as long as the median is wide enough (the actual minimum width can vary depending on the country in question).

A very large percentage of the US Interstate system and the various freeway networks in Canada (like Ontario's 400-series highways), have wide grass medians between opposing lanes of traffic. Europe also has such motorways.

In the Wikipedia link you gave, it is only stated that barriers are required specifically in the UK and now also in Ireland. The common criteria only include the requirement for it to be a "dual carriageway", whose means of separation may be a grass median.

However, regardless of this technicality, many roads in Russia classified as motorways are just divided expressways of varying quality and design standards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember even the MKAD has some encroaching properties (i.e. entrances from businesses not via proper motorway entrances/exits), which would automatically downgrade the road to "expressway" status in many other countries.

Nonetheless, in many instances (depending on traffic volumes and other requirements) lower design standards may be sufficient. It is also better to have an extensive expressway network, as opposed to a very small motorway network complemented by an extensive poor and unsafe rural network (though I think the network in Russia is still largely in the latter category).
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Old June 12th, 2009, 09:11 PM   #474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCat View Post
I agree with you that Russian roads are quite bad in general, and that a large portion of their "motorway" network doesn't actually consist of proper motorways.

HOWEVER, this particular point (about the central crash barriers) is not really true. In many parts of the world, it is permitted to have a wide grass median between opposing lanes of traffic, as long as the median is wide enough (the actual minimum width can vary depending on the country in question).

A very large percentage of the US Interstate system and the various freeway networks in Canada (like Ontario's 400-series highways), have wide grass medians between opposing lanes of traffic. Europe also has such motorways.
1. Crash barriers are required everywhere in Europe, not only in Ireland or UK. It is our european standard.

2. If these elements are missing, for our standards these can not be called motorways. All new (and 99% of old) motorways in Europe have this standard.
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Old June 12th, 2009, 09:13 PM   #475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Yeah, but such roads are not even considered motorways in Russia. It's just a bad-quality Magistrale.
M means Magistrala, not Motorway anyway, so not every M-road must be called motorway even in Russia.
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Old June 13th, 2009, 03:04 PM   #476
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However, regardless of this technicality, many roads in Russia classified as motorways are just divided expressways of varying quality and design standards. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember even the MKAD has some encroaching properties (i.e. entrances from businesses not via proper motorway entrances/exits), which would automatically downgrade the road to "expressway" status in many other countries.
).[/QUOTE]



MKAD has never been either marked or ragarded as a motorway in Russia..
very possibly due to the reasons you`ve listed above
on the other hand the ringroad i St.Pete is viewed [and marked for that matter] as a motorway

Last edited by Attii; June 13th, 2009 at 07:09 PM.
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Old June 13th, 2009, 06:40 PM   #477
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Didn't the MKAD achieve motorway status recently because they have cleared all the pedestrian crossings and uncontrolled interchanges?
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Old June 13th, 2009, 07:28 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Didn't the MKAD achieve motorway status recently because they have cleared all the pedestrian crossings and uncontrolled interchanges?
Motorroad (100 km/h). I think it happened quite long time ago.
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Old June 13th, 2009, 07:38 PM   #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Didn't the MKAD achieve motorway status recently because they have cleared all the pedestrian crossings and uncontrolled interchanges?

above-ground crossings from what I remember from a few years ago are/were still there..but it is not them that collide with the motorwaystatus [definitions]; but rather absence of acceleration lanes in some places etc..
When it comes to the practical mission of MKAD itself..in my opinion it doesn`t really need any bloody motorway status.. be it of European or whatever criteria..
its primary purpose is to redistribute the enormous traffic in the Russian capital - which it fulfills fairly well...
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Old June 13th, 2009, 08:29 PM   #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Motorroad (100 km/h). I think it happened quite long time ago.
2001 to be precise
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