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Old July 6th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #1701
coth
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I'm not German - I don't know what is u-turn. Expressways has to be grade separated.

If meant grade separation then you must be talking about US Route network. Interstate is grade separated.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 02:41 PM   #1702
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@coth http://goo.gl/maps/lGpCS http://goo.gl/maps/nXQ3w this is u-turn (ofc here don't counts since is a street)
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Old July 6th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #1703
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Still not sure what are you talking about. Ability to reverse? There are no such kind of turns on expressways. It's quite dangerous. Cars shouldn't break on left lane. You can revers on junctions.

This is an express street, or magistral street as we say. It's not counted as expressway of course.

Anyway - I listed those most notorious examples. There are also some smaller 1-20 km expressways.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 03:41 PM   #1704
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This is M2 near Moscow you mentioned,

https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=Novoku...,10.35,,0,0.23

and M9

https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=Novoku...10.13,,0,-2.52

you call these roads expressways?

Last edited by markfos; July 6th, 2013 at 03:47 PM.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 04:28 PM   #1705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markfos View Post
you call these roads expressways?
Why not? It's not a U turn! According to the signs it is forbidden to use it.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 05:46 PM   #1706
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If these are expressways, why there are no signs like this?:



These roads wouldn't be even classified as GP roads in Poland, I can't believe Russian authorities would classify these roads as expressways, if so, you have very low standards.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 07:22 PM   #1707
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Russia has green expressway sign.

And those are high standard, unless you have some personal inferiority complex on that.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 07:33 PM   #1708
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Maybe there are signs like these?

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Old July 6th, 2013, 07:33 PM   #1709
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@Coth, there are no green signs with an expressway symbol as well, and I don't have some high standards, these are standards you can find everywhere across whole Europe for expressways.
My point is that you describe these roads as expressways which are obviously not, lack of expressway signage confirms that even Russian authorities don't classify these roads as expressways.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #1710
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Many motorways in Europe have certain substandard design features. Some still lack shoulders, as a matter of fact, some brand new motorways in Switzerland and Sweden are constructed without any shoulders. Most tunnels in Europe do not feature shoulders.

The Russian examples posted have no median barrier, but these certainly would classify as a divided highway. If it has controlled access (interchanges) throughout, it would qualify for motorway standards. A partial paved median doesn't really matter, only police are allowed to use them.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 07:44 PM   #1711
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But how can you know what is the speed limit when there is no signage, so you don't know if its an experssway or just a simple dual carriegeway as it looks like?
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Old July 6th, 2013, 07:55 PM   #1712
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The definition of the word "expressway" varies across the world. Yes, it's an English word and Russians have no authority to define it, but for example, this is officially an expressway in the United States.

Speed limit on Russian dual carriageways is probably the general speed limit outside built-up areas (100 km/h, I think) unless stated otherwise.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 08:00 PM   #1713
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Ok, a bit confusing but now its clear, there should be one definition, standards - at least in Europe.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 09:08 PM   #1714
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Russian laws limits speed to 110 kmph on roads of any types.

It's currently under discussion to rise limits to 130 kmph. M-11 and northern M-1 exit and some other roads designed for 140-150 kmph. But still it won't be allowed with currently discussed legislation.


Yet again i repeat as you misunderstood it - Russian expressways are green, not blue, except for city limits, where all roads have white signs. Motorways and other kind of roads outside settlements have blue signs.

https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=Novoku...4,,0,0.44&z=19

https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=Novoku...,,0,-2.76&z=14

Those are true expressways, no matter what EU standards says. Russia is not in EU and has very different population and settlement density. You might have very little of rural expressways to understand what is it.


Interstate 70 - typical US expressway
https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=Novoku...9,,0,1.09&z=14
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Old July 6th, 2013, 09:25 PM   #1715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markfos View Post
Ok, a bit confusing but now its clear, there should be one definition, standards - at least in Europe.
But there's no one standard for expressways/motorways in Europe. Polish expressways are not good example because most of them are constructed, in fact, in highway standards.

You started completely useless discussion here.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 09:28 PM   #1716
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Coth, I think you misuderstood me, there are no signs, either blue or green like this with the fornt of the car, which are expressway signs. It doesn't matter if they are blue or green, but there is no a single one marking its an expressway. So how can you know if it is?

But ok I am done, sorry I hope you are not upset, I was just curious why you call these roads expressways, have a nice weekend everybody, cheers.

Last edited by markfos; July 6th, 2013 at 09:38 PM.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #1717
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In a European sense, this would be considered an expressway:

(TTK, Moscow)

And this would be considered a motorway:

(M4, Vidnoye)

The definition of the term "expressway" varies by country. In the Netherlands these roads generally have a 100 km/h speed limit, but they may or may not have a median and interchanges. In most of Asia, the term expressway is applied to roads that would be considered a motorway (or Autobahn, Autoroute, Autostrada, etc.) in Europe. In the U.S. the term expressway is defined as a multilane, divided highway. However in eastern U.S. the term expressway is also used for what is considered to be a freeway.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 11:31 PM   #1718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
And this would be considered a motorway:

(M4, Vidnoye)
It's neither expressway, motorway and M4. It's a side road - exit from M4.
http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CVVLEY8u
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Old July 6th, 2013, 11:35 PM   #1719
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True, definitions vary. Even if definitions are very clear there are many roads which do not actually match them (i.e. are sub-standard). Germany is a good example with some of its old Autobahns which would not pass for an expressway even in Germany itself if it was built nowadays. So it's often more about 'politics' than actual standards. I suppose to a larger or smaller extent it applies to pretty much all countries.

However, I think, markfos didn't mean definition as such but an actual kind of road which would normally be called expressway/motorway in EU, China (and perhaps a number of other countries). Russia might have different standards and definitions but that doesn't really matter. What we're looking for is an actual road with specific attributes. Something that looks like this. Regardless of definitions, I suppose, we all understand what I mean.

And in that case the answer should be, very broadly speaking, somewhere in the range of 1000-1500km. That is MKAD, KAD (St.Petersburg), some stretches around Moscow which would probably include M4 all the way from Moscow to Voronezh, a stretch of M2 and a few others here and there (mainly around Moscow, but some others too).

One has to keep in mind that even the Western part of Russia is somewhat sparsely populated compared to Central and Western Europe. Which means there isn't as much need for such roads as, say, in Germany or Netherlands which have very dense networks. On the other hand, Western part of Russia clearly needs to have a clearly defined network in the dense regions. It's hard to tell what it should be but if we look at Spain as a similarly densely populated country (compared to the region around Moscow to Samara and Kazan) it could be anything between 5000 and 10000km depending on circumstances. In either case it should be much more than there is now.
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Old July 6th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #1720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markfos View Post
Coth, I think you misuderstood me, there are no signs, either blue or green like this with the fornt of the car, which are expressway signs. It doesn't matter if they are blue or green, but there is no a single one marking its an expressway. So how can you know if it is?

But ok I am done, sorry I hope you are not upset, I was just curious why you call these roads expressways, have a nice weekend everybody, cheers.
If you don't see them it doesn't mean they are not there. In any way - as i said. All roads with green signs are expressways.
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