daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 1st, 2015, 07:25 PM   #761
luhai167
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 34
Likes (Received): 8

What it comes down to is that HK people don't want HSR as much. Otherwise a vocal minority would not drown out the "silent majority" if it actually want the thing to be built. There is due process and there is due process with essessive delays. Just look at the speed US has contructed its interstate highway system in the 20th century and its rail system in the 19 century. Its unhealth to hide behind democracy or rule of law when imcompentce is really to blame.

If HKer don't need HSR, why waste money and build it? They seems to be perfectly okay with flying, or take the metrol to shenzhen that is if they go to mainland at all.(do the average HKer go to mainland beyond shenzhen and dongguan? my friends in HK seems to only go to Japan and thailand) Personally for me, If i do go through HK (when cathay pacific has cheaper seats) i would just take the ferry at the airport in shenzhen and go to the whatever city i need to go, whether HK has HSR station or not is completely irrelivent. As for HSR make mainlander visiting HK easier and faster, I don't think the average HKer event want that. More people would go for dismantling the exiting rail link to Luohu than the HSR to mainland if it ever put to a vote. The fact this project exists at all is incompntance, and fact the project was pushed forward with all the rounf about effort to going against it resulting ib delays and cost overruns is incompetance on tip of incompetance
__________________

Sopomon liked this post

Last edited by luhai167; May 1st, 2015 at 07:48 PM.
luhai167 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 1st, 2015, 09:14 PM   #762
maginn
maginn
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 57
Likes (Received): 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai167 View Post
What it comes down to is that HK people don't want HSR as much. Otherwise a vocal minority would not drown out the "silent majority" if it actually want the thing to be built. There is due process and there is due process with essessive delays. Just look at the speed US has contructed its interstate highway system in the 20th century and its rail system in the 19 century. Its unhealth to hide behind democracy or rule of law when imcompentce is really to blame.

If HKer don't need HSR, why waste money and build it? They seems to be perfectly okay with flying, or take the metrol to shenzhen that is if they go to mainland at all.(do the average HKer go to mainland beyond shenzhen and dongguan? my friends in HK seems to only go to Japan and thailand) Personally for me, If i do go through HK (when cathay pacific has cheaper seats) i would just take the ferry at the airport in shenzhen and go to the whatever city i need to go, whether HK has HSR station or not is completely irrelivent. As for HSR make mainlander visiting HK easier and faster, I don't think the average HKer event want that. More people would go for dismantling the exiting rail link to Luohu than the HSR to mainland if it ever put to a vote. The fact this project exists at all is incompntance, and fact the project was pushed forward with all the rounf about effort to going against it resulting ib delays and cost overruns is incompetance on tip of incompetance
I don't think that's entirely true, I'm from HK and would love to see the high speed rail station completed ASAP. Currently, people have to travel overland between HK and either Shenzhen North or Guangzhou South to get the HSR to the connect with the rest of China's network (this will be easier once the Futian railway station opens however).

I hope that when it is finally complete, the cross border facility will allow you to clear mainland Chinese customs and immigration formalities inside the West Kowloon station before boarding the train, as opposed to the other 'international' trains from Hung Hom station where you only clear HK customs and immigration.
maginn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2015, 05:07 AM   #763
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153

I think the point is that many HKers don't particularly want to cross the border (perhaps aside to do some cheap shopping in SZ) in the first place. For destinations further afield, flying has been the way to go, especially with the projected travel times and the necessary routing through GZ of the main line north.

In many peoples' eyes this allows even more people to pour in from the north, and I'm sure you're aware how people feel about that.

Still, it's being built and while it's a pretty colossal waste of money, there's no time machine to unbuild it. HK can at least be happy that there is a new piece of infrastructure, despite that it's essentially just a portal to the mainland and isn't useful for the average joe.
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.

FM 2258 liked this post
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2015, 07:21 AM   #764
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,891
Likes (Received): 18167

There is a need to connect to the mainland's HSR network. The business traffic is enormous, and would benefit substantially from easier links to our neighbouring cities.

Governance over the project has been failing, which is a different issue from individual people not liking China and not wanting to go there. This link should have been built mostly above ground along the Tung Chung/West Rail corridors to start, rather than doing the impossible underground though densely-built urban areas.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!

FM 2258, Silly_Walks liked this post
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2015, 08:28 PM   #765
maginn
maginn
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 57
Likes (Received): 13

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
There is a need to connect to the mainland's HSR network. The business traffic is enormous, and would benefit substantially from easier links to our neighbouring cities.

Governance over the project has been failing, which is a different issue from individual people not liking China and not wanting to go there. This link should have been built mostly above ground along the Tung Chung/West Rail corridors to start, rather than doing the impossible underground though densely-built urban areas.
^I agree with this post.

Sopomon is not correct with his statement that many HKers don't want to cross the border, it is only a minority of the population that harbor such views. Try visiting the HK-Macau ferry terminal (in Sheung Wan), the China-HK ferry terminal (in TST), Hung Hom railway station, or the airport, and you will see plenty of HK people traveling to destinations in mainland China for all kinds of reasons.
And then go visit the Lok Ma Chau or Lowu railway stations on the East Rail Line, and the numerous land border crossings with Shenzhen and tell me HK people don't particularly want to cross the border...
__________________

FM 2258 liked this post
maginn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2015, 05:36 PM   #766
jaysonn341
Registered User
 
jaysonn341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 318
Likes (Received): 334

This would be very useful for tourists/business travelers. People who say it shouldn't be built cannot keep denying that HK doesn't exist within the broader PRD region.

You cannot rely on the "average Joe" to make a decision about a project that will clearly be a necessity in the future.
__________________

FM 2258 liked this post
jaysonn341 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2015, 09:31 PM   #767
kunming tiger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: kunming
Posts: 7,029
Likes (Received): 1665

Quote:
Originally Posted by luhai167 View Post
What it comes down to is that HK people don't want HSR as much. Otherwise a vocal minority would not drown out the "silent majority" if it actually want the thing to be built. There is due process and there is due process with essessive delays. Just look at the speed US has contructed its interstate highway system in the 20th century and its rail system in the 19 century. Its unhealth to hide behind democracy or rule of law when imcompentce is really to blame.

If HKer don't need HSR, why waste money and build it? They seems to be perfectly okay with flying, or take the metrol to shenzhen that is if they go to mainland at all.(do the average HKer go to mainland beyond shenzhen and dongguan? my friends in HK seems to only go to Japan and thailand) Personally for me, If i do go through HK (when cathay pacific has cheaper seats) i would just take the ferry at the airport in shenzhen and go to the whatever city i need to go, whether HK has HSR station or not is completely irrelivent. As for HSR make mainlander visiting HK easier and faster, I don't think the average HKer event want that. More people would go for dismantling the exiting rail link to Luohu than the HSR to mainland if it ever put to a vote. The fact this project exists at all is incompntance, and fact the project was pushed forward with all the rounf about effort to going against it resulting ib delays and cost overruns is incompetance on tip of incompetance
The vocal majority is always louder than the silent majority hence the term "silent"

The average Hong Konger is becoming less relevant by the year. Political decisions or policy making don;t take into account public opinion .

The issue with change is either get on board, get out of the way or get run over. The World is changing and the coming of the HSR is just aspect of that change.
__________________

FM 2258 liked this post
kunming tiger no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2015, 10:29 PM   #768
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612

I feel like a train that takes 12-14 minutes to get from Kowloon to Futian will be a cash cow. Despite all the problems I'm sure once it's up and running and all kinks are worked out, people will wonder how they lived without it. The Pearl River Delta will be the best connected metropolis in the world after the Yangtze River Delta (Hangzhou-Nanjing-Shanghai)....in my opinion.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 4th, 2015, 06:52 AM   #769
YannSZ
Shenzhen !
 
YannSZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Shenzhen
Posts: 805
Likes (Received): 1160

I concur. Leaving right next to it, I'll stop using HuangGang and FuTian checkpoint and will always use this new way to go to Hong Kong cutting my travel time by half at least.
People living in FuTian CBD would even be able to have a job in Kowloon.
__________________
Shenzhen under construction photo set on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/yleberre/sets/1582442/
ShenzhenCity Twitter account: @ShenzhenCity
ShenzhenVille Instagram account: @ShenzhenVille

FM 2258, Norge78, CP11, jaysonn341 liked this post
YannSZ no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 7th, 2015, 02:47 PM   #770
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,891
Likes (Received): 18167

Tien puts rail cost at $90b
The Standard Excerpt
Thursday, May 07, 2015





The price tag for the troubled cross-border express railway will go up by HK$18 billion to a staggering HK$90 billion, the chairman of the Legislative Council transport panel said.

Michael Tien Puk-sun said it is pragmatic to estimate that the construction cost of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link will soar to HK$90 billion because of a two- year delay in the project.

"What I can only say about the cost is that the overbudget is higher than the one I estimated earlier, which was about HK$20 billion. The management said it was unacceptable and returned it to the subordinates for discussion again ... HK$90 billion might be the final cost," Tien said.

In 2010, the expected budget was HK$65 billion, but it rose to HK$71.52 billion in the latest amendment last year.

Tien urged the government to start discussing with the rail operator on how the soaring construction cost will be shared.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!

dimlys1994, CP11 liked this post
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2015, 03:10 PM   #771
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,891
Likes (Received): 18167

Time to rethink trade-off between speed and cost
7 May 2015
China Daily Excerpt

The latest government estimates, according to well-placed sources, that the bill for constructing the Hong Kong section of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link will increase 30 percent to HK$85 billion from the original HK$65 billion. It is now time to rethink the trade-off between speed and cost.

We can use the HK$20 billion saved to build more day-care centers to release full-time mothers to rejoin the workforce, as Hong Kong will face a shortage of skilled office and other workers in 10 years' time, or increase allowances for the needy, underprivileged and the aged. We can also use this handsome sum of money to build more medical and educational facilities, including after-school programs for students from poor families.

Since the return of Hong Kong to the motherland in 1997, the SAR's economy and the mainland's have been tightly integrated. In a sense, we are "one family". Hong Kong people can simply take the local train to Lo Wu, cross the border to Shenzhen and take a 72-minute bullet train from Shenzhen to Guangzhou. The Shenzhen-Guangzhou trains run at intervals of every 10 to 20 minutes. This is so convenient we don't need to build another high-speed rail in Hong Kong. We should leverage our proximity to Shenzhen and make use of Shenzhen's advanced train facilities. There is nothing shameful about this.

Some Hong Kong people may complain that it takes too long to cross the Lo Wu-Shenzhen immigration checkpoint. Little do they know that things have improved since the thousands of Shenzhen-based "parallel traders" were allowed to visit Hong Kong once a week (starting in mid-April) instead of several times a day. Even when people take the current Guangzhou-Kowloon Through Train (departing from Hung Hom in Kowloon), they still need to go through customs and immigration in Guangzhou. The same would apply to local travelers on the high-speed rail - should it be built.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2015, 12:13 PM   #772
Sopomon
Hideous and malformed
 
Sopomon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 870
Likes (Received): 153


The CCP mouthpiece arguing against HSR in Hong Kong?
They were the ones who were pushing the idea in the first place!

Do they simply think that the project can just be abandoned and left as it is?

Something's not right here
__________________
And he kicked so many rosebushes at her that eventually, Sasuke turned into a log.
Sopomon no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2015, 12:15 PM   #773
doc7austin
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 380
Likes (Received): 810

Quote:
Hong Kong people can simply take the local train to Lo Wu, cross the border to Shenzhen and take a 72-minute bullet train from Shenzhen to Guangzhou.
This procedure is very, very stressfull.
__________________

FM 2258 liked this post
doc7austin no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2015, 12:43 PM   #774
FM 2258
Registered User
 
FM 2258's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Austin
Posts: 5,438
Likes (Received): 612



I took the local train from Hung Hom to Lok Ma Chau station and the ride seemed to take forever. I didn't cross the border so could only imagine how much more stressful it would be to take that trip. I'm not sure how much opposition there was to the Chek Lap Kok airport construction but if there were any complaints then I don't hear or see anything about those problems today. I feel similar with this project.
FM 2258 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2015, 06:25 PM   #775
jaysonn341
Registered User
 
jaysonn341's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 318
Likes (Received): 334

I've taken the MTR to the Lo Wu Checkpoint and onwards to Guangzhou. Can tell you all now that a HSR link from Kowloon would be MUCH more preferable. It is even a struggle to get to Hung Hom! The interchange walk at TST and TST East is an absolute joke of a station.
__________________

FM 2258 liked this post
jaysonn341 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2015, 12:06 AM   #776
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,976
Likes (Received): 836

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Time to rethink trade-off between speed and cost
7 May 2015
China Daily Excerpt

[...]
What a load of unsubstantiated bollocks.


It takes about 45 minutes just to get from Hung Hom to the border crossing.

The HSR would have taken you to Guangzhou in that time.

Not to mention how quickly it would get you to Shenzhen.

Compared to the long-term time savings the investment is peanuts.


Why do they even print this rubbish?
__________________

FM 2258 liked this post
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2015, 02:49 PM   #777
ad50939
Need vacation....
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 573
Likes (Received): 15



That's predictable and inevitable, as I have said before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ad50939 View Post

2017? Not a chance.

My guess is opening not until 2019.

Stupid design + unrealistic planning !
The fiasco goes on .........

Last edited by ad50939; May 10th, 2015 at 02:59 PM.
ad50939 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2015, 01:49 AM   #778
Silly_Walks
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,976
Likes (Received): 836

Your words, although using a large font, don't really say much.

Also, I can not read Chinese.


Could you please translate and elaborate?
Silly_Walks no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2015, 07:03 AM   #779
Cosmicbliss
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Small towns enthusiast
Posts: 4,913
Likes (Received): 368

OT but is Chinese read left to right or top to bottom? I have seen both!
Cosmicbliss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2015, 08:18 AM   #780
skyridgeline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,524
Likes (Received): 1214

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopomon View Post

The CCP mouthpiece arguing against HSR in Hong Kong?
They were the ones who were pushing the idea in the first place!

Do they simply think that the project can just be abandoned and left as it is?

Something's not right here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
What a load of unsubstantiated bollocks.


It takes about 45 minutes just to get from Hung Hom to the border crossing.

The HSR would have taken you to Guangzhou in that time.

Not to mention how quickly it would get you to Shenzhen.

Compared to the long-term time savings the investment is peanuts.


Why do they even print this rubbish?

It's an apologetic article. The delays are like an affront to Beijing/China.

They better find some dinosaurs or ancient Chinese in the grounds along the project . Maybe then, Hong Kong will be forgiven .
skyridgeline no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium