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Old December 8th, 2015, 11:40 AM   #841
Sopomon
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Since the protests, it seems that 'one country, two systems' is now almost a law in which Hong Kongers must abide, of course with all the emphasis on the one country and next-to-none of the two systems.
It's surprising to see how often that term comes up nowadays, especially compared to how it was before.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 04:36 PM   #842
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As a mainland resident, I feel really bored with the endless argument in Hong Kong.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 11:59 PM   #843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gowallstmichael View Post
As a mainland resident, I feel really bored with the endless argument in Hong Kong.
As a visitor of this forum about architecture, urban planning and infrastructure, I don't care about your views on Hong Kong politics.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 01:24 AM   #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
As a visitor of this forum about architecture, urban planning and infrastructure, I don't care about your views on Hong Kong politics.
Why did you even reply if you do not care about his views?
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Old December 9th, 2015, 03:41 AM   #845
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All the discussions about enforcement and immigration point to both sides' respect of the rule of law, a core value that Hong Kong enjoys. I think the ultimate solution needs to mimick what Canadian airports do for US departures but they need to tweak out the logistics carefully.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 03:43 AM   #846
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Quote:
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Why did you even reply if you do not care about his views?
Should be pretty clear why I did that. To impress upon him this is not a place to express his political views. I thought that would be obvious.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 04:21 AM   #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly_Walks View Post
Should be pretty clear why I did that. To impress upon him this is not a place to express his political views. I thought that would be obvious.
Which words of my sentence show any of my politic views? Is it really my politic views, or is it indeed your crazy imagination of me?
Quote:
As a visitor of this forum about architecture, urban planning and infrastructure
Your statement is really ridiculous and funny. All visitors here are people interested in architecture, urban planning and infrastructure, and I am not the exception, especially considering my identity as a mainland resident who feels hard to visit international forum. It is not your advantage over me.

What I want to clarify is that other investors and potential users of GZ-SZ-HK HSR should not pay for Hong Kong's errors, no matter which part of Hong Kongers should be responsible for that. 2015? 2017? 2018? 2019?....Is there anyone that can validly restrict MTR? Apparently no.

And the most importantly, I don't think discussion about "one-place-two-inspection"(一地两检) or Hong Kong's delayed construction is pure politic issue. It directly decides the opening day and the usefulness of GZ-SZ-HK HSR.

And at last, a small piece of advice to you: politics is just around us in our daily life; if you want to avoid it, you will find yourself unable to solve any problem.

Last edited by gowallstmichael; December 9th, 2015 at 05:06 AM.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 04:53 AM   #848
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Quote:
point to both sides' respect of the rule of law
I really agree with it. However, when people state this principle, they must make sure that they are of good intention or show a manner of solving problems, rather than speak to create blocks and troubles.

Last edited by gowallstmichael; December 9th, 2015 at 05:43 AM.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 06:58 AM   #849
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As someone traveling to China via international flights and must to do rail transfer to reaching my destination. I find this linkage to be useless, even though flights to Hong Kong tends to be the cheaper. Did some calculation, and it appears taking the ferry from the airport to Shenzhen and train from there is still the faster option.

(If Shanghai actually does manages to extend the maglev from its international airport to Hongqiao (and let maglev use a normal metro card), that would be the best option out of them all.) [or the off chance that the Beijing's Daxin airport will get a HSR station attached like it was originally rumored to be.]

Last edited by luhai; December 9th, 2015 at 07:03 AM.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 07:34 AM   #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gowallstmichael View Post
I really agree with it. However, when people state this principle, they must make sure that they are of good intention or show a manner of solving problems, rather than speak to create blocks and troubles.
It is not our responsibility to provide an action problem for every problem identified. There are people paid to do that stuff. It is crucial that we speak out when we see issues to kick-start the debate.

Oftentimes it would take far longer to find a solution than to identify the problem.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 08:31 AM   #851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gowallstmichael View Post
Which words of my sentence show any of my politic views? Is it really my politic views, or is it indeed your crazy imagination of me?

Your statement is really ridiculous and funny. All visitors here are people interested in architecture, urban planning and infrastructure, and I am not the exception, especially considering my identity as a mainland resident who feels hard to visit international forum. It is not your advantage over me.

What I want to clarify is that other investors and potential users of GZ-SZ-HK HSR should not pay for Hong Kong's errors, no matter which part of Hong Kongers should be responsible for that. 2015? 2017? 2018? 2019?....Is there anyone that can validly restrict MTR? Apparently no.

And the most importantly, I don't think discussion about "one-place-two-inspection"(一地两检) or Hong Kong's delayed construction is pure politic issue. It directly decides the opening day and the usefulness of GZ-SZ-HK HSR.

And at last, a small piece of advice to you: politics is just around us in our daily life; if you want to avoid it, you will find yourself unable to solve any problem.

First off, you sound very, very butthurt. The fact that you had to spit out an entire paragraph to attempt to "disprove" his point ironically proves his point that you ARE waxing political.


Second, any claims of political neutrality in your statement is negated when you established yourself as a Mainland resident. While I understand that firewall controls make it difficult for you to access international forums, that is not an excuse. We don't owe you anything. There is is a world's difference between saying:

"I think HKers are acting stupid."
"I'm Mainland Chinese and I think HKers are acting stupid."

The first one is an objective opinion. Not a very well-argued opinion, but an objective opinion nonetheless; not to mention that simple one-line statements about such a controversial subject are easily interpreted as political. The second one, however, establishes your own subjective position in relation to Hong Kong, which will be interpreted as a political statement. By staking an identity that is politically affiliated with the topic, you have taken a political stance, which is what SillyWalks is pointing out. You don't have to say "I'm making a political statement" in order to make one.


Yes, politics ARE intertwined with daily life, especially in the case of GZ-SZ-HK HSR, due to valid political issues in Hong Kong outside the scope of this discussion. Most of the discussions in this thread therefore tend to avoid one-sided commentary as such things are generally frowned upon as "off topic".

Take the USA HSR thread. HSR in the US is limited due to Republicans, NIMBYs, and politics on steroids, yet most of the discussion stays clear of politics. Example: pictures and discussions about the Portal Bridge (a problematic 100-year old bridge) almost always focus on its current aesthetics or possible replacement plans--NOT on hating the Republicans defunding Amtrak.


Not that I fully disagree with you, however. For one, I enjoy studying HSR systems across the world not only because of architecture and aesthetics, but also for its economic and social benefits, as well as the political commentary about such projects. I do think that HK is overreacting a bit regarding Immigration, and HK should just pursue what is pragmatic as the details can be hammered out later. However, I do also understand why they would be inclined to do otherwise, as they are more wary in lieu of recent events. I don't think that Silly Walks is against Mainlanders in particular--rather that political discussions here should remain objective and impersonal.



EDIT: Changed from Hell's Gate to Portal. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Last edited by Silver Swordsman; December 10th, 2015 at 02:49 AM.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 01:22 PM   #852
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This, verbatim.

Saves me a lot of typing on my mobile phone keyboard, thanks
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Old December 9th, 2015, 04:09 PM   #853
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One oddity is that 2 large tunnel boring machines arrived in Hong Kong this year. One is 14m across and is to bore a road tunnel near that MTR tunnel somewhere. Here.

http://www.globalconstructionreview....dig-new-route/

However the underwater tunnel to Lap Kok airport is being bored by a 17.6m diameter machine (the worlds biggest ever machine) which is far too wide a diameter for a 2 lane road. In fact you could put a train ...perhaps even a Shenzen Metro train AND a 2 lane road through it, have a look yourself. That or a 3 lane road with hard shoulder and no train.

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Old December 9th, 2015, 05:41 PM   #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sponge_bob View Post
One oddity is that 2 large tunnel boring machines arrived in Hong Kong this year. One is 14m across and is to bore a road tunnel near that MTR tunnel somewhere. Here.

http://www.globalconstructionreview....dig-new-route/

However the underwater tunnel to Lap Kok airport is being bored by a 17.6m diameter machine (the worlds biggest ever machine) which is far too wide a diameter for a 2 lane road. In fact you could put a train ...perhaps even a Shenzen Metro train AND a 2 lane road through it, have a look yourself. That or a 3 lane road with hard shoulder and no train.
Since this tunnel needs to cater for trucks using the new bridge facilities, they need to be wide and tall enough. I doubt it will be economical to put a train line through given the NW NT's population, and the rail link proposal to Shenzhen's airport is very much dead.
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Old December 9th, 2015, 05:48 PM   #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Swordsman View Post
Example: pictures and discussions about Hell's Gate Bridge (a problematic 100-year old bridge) almost always focus on its current aesthetics or possible replacement plans--NOT on hating the Republicans defunding Amtrak.
This was all very well said. I do have to admit that the US HSR threads can get political at times (though not nearly as bad as the British ones).

But my biggest gripe is that you are mixing up Portal Bridge (falling apart) with Hell Gate (built like a battleship and probably one of the sturdiest bridges in the world).


Both were part of the same project, built at the same time, on opposite sides of a city, so its an easy mistake to make unless you are really familiar with it.

Hell Gate (the inspiration for a certain Australian Bridge):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_Gate_Bridge

Portal:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_Bridge
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Old December 10th, 2015, 02:49 AM   #856
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Thx 00Zy. I went and fixed it.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 05:57 AM   #857
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Second, any claims of political neutrality in your statement is negated when you established yourself as a Mainland resident. While I understand that firewall controls make it difficult for you to access international forums, that is not an excuse. We don't owe you anything. There is is a world's difference between saying:

As a long term resident of China you are asked as a matter of procedure to sign a stat dec saying you will not involve yourself in political , religious or criminal activities as a condition of your stay in China. Non complicance can result in a criminal sanction. In effect it's a guarantee of your neutrality in writing . Even short term visitors are asked to do the same thing.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 06:45 AM   #858
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Just because you sign something doesn't mean that you'll obey it. Its impossible to watch everybody all the time. And he might not be in the PRC right now.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 08:36 PM   #859
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JOINT EXPRESS RAIL BORDER CONTROLS 'WITHIN BASIC LAW'
The Standard Excerpt
Thursday, December 10, 2015

The idea of amending the Basic Law so mainland authorities can be stationed at the Express Rail Link's boundary control station in West Kowloon is now under study by Hong Kong officials.

But news of that process from Secretary for Justice Rimsky Yuen set off immediate denunciations by several legislators yesterday, with one talking about a betrayal.

Yuen said in the Legislative Council: "We are looking at all potential practical ways to conduct the co-location immigration arrangements, and having mainland officials to work at the terminal is one of the ways that can be considered.

"We do not see this to be breaching the Basic Law or the one country, two systems principle."

Yuen later told media that with "co- location" it is inevitable mainland personnel will be allowed to enforce laws in the West Kowloon terminus. By then, legal-sector legislator and Civic Party member Dennis Kwok Wing-hang had accused Yuen of "potentially betraying" the principle of one country, two systems.

He cited a declaration by the Hong Kong Bar Association in 2002 when discussing Article 23 legislation that any national law borrowed or adopted in Hong Kong would be "inappropriate."

Legislators also proposed a system of clearing immigration formalities while passengers are riding in carriages, with more than 500 on some trains.

Yuen said this was not feasible because of a lack of time: the trip from West Kowloon to Shenzhen Futian would take only 14 minutes.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 06:46 PM   #860
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12/8

Hong Kong Dec. 2015 by Yasunari Goto, on Flickr
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