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Old February 26th, 2016, 08:46 PM   #921
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I had an idea. Consolidate all air traffic in the Pearl Delta region into one airport, located somewhat remotely on the mainland. The existing airports can be redeveloped. Then the link can serve the airport. Hong Kong has its own terminal at the airport, with its own customs, and trains run sealed from there into Kowloon.
That wouldn't help much with air traffic delays in China. It's not due to the infrastructure that there are delays, but rather that the PLA owns most of the airspace in China and thus commercial flights can often be denied take off slots if it is deemed the route would interfere with PLA activity.

@kunmingtiger It is precisely due to the ****-up that is the current state of the project that Hong Kongers want it cancelled. To them it reeks of mainland interference and corruption on the part of CY Leung's government.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 11:16 AM   #922
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I had an idea. Consolidate all air traffic in the Pearl Delta region into one airport, located somewhat remotely on the mainland. The existing airports can be redeveloped. Then the link can serve the airport. Hong Kong has its own terminal at the airport, with its own customs, and trains run sealed from there into Kowloon.
There are six commercial airports in the Pearl River Delta, three of them in the top ten busiest airports in China and seeking expansion, so combining them into a single airport would be near on impossible. That is before looking for potential sites and how they would be connected to PRD cities.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 03:42 PM   #923
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There are six commercial airports in the Pearl River Delta, three of them in the top ten busiest airports in China and seeking expansion, so combining them into a single airport would be near on impossible. That is before looking for potential sites and how they would be connected to PRD cities.
Which of the 6 airports is best sited for connections around Pearl River Delta?
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Old February 27th, 2016, 04:44 PM   #924
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Which of the 6 airports is best sited for connections around Pearl River Delta?
I believe Guangzhou Baiyun and the HK international airports are best for connections around the PRD, Shenzhen is not bad either considering its location between HK and GZ.
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Old February 27th, 2016, 08:24 PM   #925
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I believe Guangzhou Baiyun and the HK international airports are best for connections around the PRD, Shenzhen is not bad either considering its location between HK and GZ.
My point. New Baiyun and Hong Hong are both at remote ends of PRD, and therefore hard to get to. Shenzhen should be developed over them.
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Old March 2nd, 2016, 05:48 PM   #926
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Move it! 55 per cent of Hongkongers want lawmakers to approve extra cash for high-speed railway
2 March 2016
South China Morning Post Excerpt

More than half of Hongkongers wanted lawmakers to approve the government's request for an extra HK$19.6 billion to complete the high-speed rail link to Guangzhou, a survey found, but more than a third objected.

The survey also found people held mixed views on what immigration arrangements should be adopted for the cross-border link, the cost of which has ballooned to HK$84.42 billion and the completion date pushed back to the third quarter of 2018.

The Hong Kong Institute of Asia-Pacific Studies of Chinese University carried out phone interviews with 805 adults in the city about their views on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link from February 19 to 24.

It found 55 per cent of respondents supported the Legislative Council giving the green light to the funding proposal while 36 per cent objected.

Among those in favour, more than 40 per cent said the main reason was "it would be a waste if the construction of the largely completed Express Rail Link was stopped".

On Monday, the MTR Corporation was ordered by the government to map out a plan for suspension of the project after lawmakers failed to put the funding request to a vote last month.

For respondents against extra funding, more than 40 per cent said the main reason was that it was not necessary for Hong Kong build the rail link.

On the issue of co-location of immigration facilities at the West Kowloon Terminus, which would allow mainland officers to work in the special administrative region, over 40 per cent of respondents agreed to it but more than a third were opposed.

Over 40 per cent agreed that implementing co-location of immigration facilities would undermine the principle of "one country, two systems", while close to a third felt it would not.

When asked about keeping immigration checkpoints separate in Hong Kong and on the mainland, close to half said they were fine with such an arrangement while more than a third said they could accept inspections inside train compartments.
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Old March 7th, 2016, 05:30 PM   #927
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Transport chief set for worst on express link
7 March 2016
The Standard Excerpt

Secretary for Transport and Housing Anthony Cheung Bing-leung says he has to prepare for the worst in the event the Express Rail Link construction comes to a grinding halt.

Sixteen hours of Legislative Council Finance Committee meetings will be held on Friday, Saturday and March 18 for lawmakers to decide on an extra HK$19.6 billion for the delayed 26-kilometer SAR section of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong high-speed rail link.

Cheung repeated yesterday he will receive an action plan in the middle of the month if the rail project is suspended.

He again called on lawmakers to pass the extra funding for the project that has gone overbudget.

``We have to prepare for the worst. If in March we evaluate that the Legco [Finance Committee] cannot pass the extra funding, we will also look at the cashflow and whether there is any chance to get the approval by the Finance Committee. We will take all factors into account and consider how to implement suspension,'' Cheung said.

``The government does not want to take this step, but we have to be well prepared in all aspects.''

Asked whether the government will communicate with lawmakers in the committee and request them not to filibuster, Cheung said lawmakers had already spent many hours asking various questions about the project.

He added the government has handed in more than ten supplementary documents.

``We have made the necessary explanations. We notice that many lawmakers with an opinion on the XRL focus on the issue of the co-location arrangement,'' Cheung said.

He emphasized the immigration clearance co- location arrangement is a separate issue.

``We understand people in Hong Kong have an opinion with the delay and overbudget of the XRL. I represent the government to apologize to Hongkongers, but more than 77 percent of the construction has been completed and more losses will be caused by delay in passing the extra funding.''
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Old March 9th, 2016, 07:59 AM   #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
Which of the 6 airports is best sited for connections around Pearl River Delta?
Sorry for the delay, I was away for work.

The three major airports, all on the eastern side of the PRD are Guangzhou Baiyun, Shenzhen Bao'an and Hong Kong International. All of these are major airports in China and facing capacity issues that a single airport could not handle. While Shenzhen is central to these sites, there is only a possibility for squeezing a third runway next to the riverside expressway but that would be the limit of expansion. Guangzhou is able to expand to 4 or more runways but it is too far north to be convenient to HK. Hong Kong is currently going through the expensive process of reclaiming more land from the sea for a future third runway but that is likely to be the upper limit for that airports expansion.

There are not the clear greenfield sites capable of hosting 6 runways plus, capable of handling the movements of these three airport sites, such as the new Beijing Daxing Airport site for Beijing-Tianjin-Hebei (even after completion, the existing older airports there will continue to operate). The commercial development of the region that turned it into the economic powerhouse has seen piecemeal planning decisions in many areas, limiting the choices for a site in the PRD beyond the existing airports.

The three smaller airports I mentioned are Foshan, Zhuhai and Macau. Also seventh airport mention should go to the newly reopened Huizhou airport to the east. Basically the catchment area and market in the PRD is too large for a single airport with rail connections.

However contrary to this, on Monday 7th of March at the recent NPCC and with local Shenzhen government officials, announcements were made. Shenzhen Airport is to become a greater transportation hub with a road and commuter rail connections across the Pearl River to Zhongshan & on to Zhuhai. However it is stops far short of being a single PRD airport with high-speed rail connections.
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Last edited by Short; March 9th, 2016 at 08:08 AM.
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Old March 9th, 2016, 09:57 AM   #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
While Shenzhen is central to these sites, there is only a possibility for squeezing a third runway next to the riverside expressway but that would be the limit of expansion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Short View Post
However contrary to this, on Monday 7th of March at the recent NPCC and with local Shenzhen government officials, announcements were made. Shenzhen Airport is to become a greater transportation hub with a road and commuter rail connections across the Pearl River to Zhongshan & on to Zhuhai. However it is stops far short of being a single PRD airport with high-speed rail connections.
How difficult is the said riverside expressway? E. g. how much time or money could it take to reroute the said expressway to a tunnel beneath the expansion of the airport?
Also note that if Shenzhen airport functioned as a commuter rail hub for Pearl River delta, a larger number of passengers could be consolidated to a more manageable number of bigger planes.
How many flights daily operate to Shenzhen now? How is the breakdown by destination? By plane size?
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Old March 9th, 2016, 04:06 PM   #930
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Old March 10th, 2016, 08:27 PM   #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
My point. New Baiyun and Hong Hong are both at remote ends of PRD, and therefore hard to get to. Shenzhen should be developed over them.
Oh no, then they are going to have to cut Ping An in half now
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Old March 11th, 2016, 01:04 PM   #932
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Rail link funding approved in sudden vote
2016-03-11
RTHK Excerpt



The Legislative Council's Finance Committee has abruptly approved HK$19.6 billion in extra funds for the express rail project after acting chairman, Chan Kam-lam, suddenly called for a vote amid chaotic scenes.

Minutes before the vote, Chan had thrown all the pan-democratic lawmakers out for disrupting the meeting.

First, five pan-democratic legislators were ejected after they rushed out of their seats to protest his decision to stop any further questions about the funding request to cover cost overruns for the railway to Guangzhou.

They accused Chan of abusing his powers as acting chairman, and accused him of breaking the legislature's rules of procedures. Chan, however, insisted he had already announced during the last meeting that the time for questions was over, and lawmakers should start processing the amendment motions to the funding request.

All five refused to leave the conference room where the meeting was being held, prompting Chan to move the meeting to the main Legco chamber.

After the venue change, newly-elected Civic Party legislator Alvin Yeung was also thrown out for repeatedly disrupting the proceedings by talking through a mini-loudhailer.

Other pro-democracy lawmakers then left their seat to surround Yeung, in an attempt to prevent security guards from taking him away. This prompted Chan to order all of them to leave the chamber.

When they refused, he gave them an ultimatum, saying he would call a vote within one minute unless they complied.

Shortly afterwards, Chan said it was time to put the two items to a vote. Pro-government councillors raised their hands, and Chan declared that the requests have been approved without making a count.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 02:26 PM   #933
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Bloody awful stuff
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Old March 12th, 2016, 03:21 PM   #934
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I am completely for an HSR link from HKG to Shenzhen, Guangzhou and beyond, but this is disgraceful:

Quote:
Minutes before the vote, Chan had thrown all the pan-democratic lawmakers out for disrupting the meeting.
At least them return for the vote.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 07:25 PM   #935
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Since Hong Kong doesn't mind being ripped off, I guess creditors will want higher interest rates .


Hong Kong’s credit rating could be cut, economic experts have warned, after Moody’s downgraded the SAR’s outlook to “negative” yesterday.

Major infrastructure projects like the third runway and the MTR expansion funded through borrowing could be hit by more costs from servicing higher interest and debt repayments, if a cut follows.


- http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/e...cretary-blasts

PUBLISHED : Saturday, 12 March, 2016, 12:53pm
UPDATED : Saturday, 12 March, 2016, 8:17pm
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Old March 13th, 2016, 07:23 AM   #936
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Originally Posted by skyridgeline View Post
Since Hong Kong doesn't mind being ripped off, I guess creditors will want higher interest rates .


Hong Kong’s credit rating could be cut, economic experts have warned, after Moody’s downgraded the SAR’s outlook to “negative” yesterday.

Major infrastructure projects like the third runway and the MTR expansion funded through borrowing could be hit by more costs from servicing higher interest and debt repayments, if a cut follows.


- http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/e...cretary-blasts

PUBLISHED : Saturday, 12 March, 2016, 12:53pm
UPDATED : Saturday, 12 March, 2016, 8:17pm

Do people still take credit scores seriously after 2008?
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Old March 13th, 2016, 07:53 AM   #937
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Do people still take credit scores seriously after 2008?
It can be used as an excuse to raise the rates if they can.
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Old March 13th, 2016, 02:58 PM   #938
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@kunmingtiger It is precisely due to the ****-up that is the current state of the project that Hong Kongers want it cancelled. To them it reeks of mainland interference and corruption on the part of CY Leung's government.[/QUOTE]

Move it! 55 per cent of Hongkongers want lawmakers to approve extra cash for high-speed railway
2 March 2016
South China Morning Post Excerpt

More than half of Hongkongers wanted lawmakers to approve the government's request for an extra HK$19.6 billion to complete the high-speed rail link to Guangzhou, a survey found, but more than a third objected.

The survey also found people held mixed views on what immigration arrangements should be adopted for the cross-border link, the cost of which has ballooned to HK$84.42 billion and the completion date pushed back to the third quarter of 2018.

The Hong Kong Institute of Asia-Pacific Studies of Chinese University carried out phone interviews with 805 adults in the city about their views on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link from February 19 to 24.

It found 55 per cent of respondents supported the Legislative Council giving the green light to the funding proposal while 36 per cent objected.

Among those in favour, more than 40 per cent said the main reason was "it would be a waste if the construction of the largely completed Express Rail Link was stopped".

On Monday, the MTR Corporation was ordered by the government to map out a plan for suspension of the project after lawmakers failed to put the funding request to a vote last month.

For respondents against extra funding, more than 40 per cent said the main reason was that it was not necessary for Hong Kong build the rail link.

On the issue of co-location of immigration facilities at the West Kowloon Terminus, which would allow mainland officers to work in the special administrative region, over 40 per cent of respondents agreed to it but more than a third were opposed.

Over 40 per cent agreed that implementing co-location of immigration facilities would undermine the principle of "one country, two systems", while close to a third felt it would not.

When asked about keeping immigration checkpoints separate in Hong Kong and on the mainland, close to half said they were fine with such an arrangement while more than a third said they could accept inspections inside train compartments.
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Old March 14th, 2016, 05:55 PM   #939
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The Standard Excerpt
Basic law backs mainland law enforcement in HK
March 14, 2016

A mainland official caused an outcry yesterday by suggesting it would not be a violation of the Basic Law for mainland staff to enforce laws in Hong Kong.

And it was revealed Hong Kong and mainland officials are in talks about co- location arrangements of the Express Rail Link.

Basic Law Committee member Rao Geping said yesterday it is not against the law for mainland officials to enforce laws at a proposed co-located checkpoint in Hong Kong for the Express Rail Link, as long as mainland and Hong Kong can reach an agreement on the issue.

The talks come days after the Legislative Council's Finance Committee abruptly approved an additional funding of HK$19.6 billion needed for construction of the railway at a chaotic meeting on Friday.

Zhou Bo, vice director of the Hong Kong and Macao Affairs Office, applauded the funding approval, saying Hong Kong and Beijing have been in discussions over co-location arrangements but refused to give details of the timetable.

Shenzhen mayor Xu Qin, who is also in Beijing, said talks were being held and he hoped the Hong Kong section of the railway can be commissioned soon. Construction of the Shenzhen section is complete.

Speaking on the sidelines of the National People's Congress and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference meetings in Beijing, Rao, a law professor at Peking University, said: "In my opinion, according to the original plan, implementing co-location arrangements at the West Kowloon station is not in violation of the Basic Law, as the relevant mainland legislations would not be implemented in all parts of Hong Kong."

He said the application of national laws in Hong Kong is not entirely prohibited, according to the Basic Law.

He proposed that mainland officials should also be allowed to enforce laws on the Express Rail Link, even if the train crossed the Hong Kong boundary, as it would not be realistic to stop a running train and wait for Hong Kong officers to arrive.

"As long as the Hong Kong government can make a decision on its own, it can implement the co-location arrangements without listing the mainland laws in Annex III to the Basic Law," he said.

He suggested the two governments list all laws involved in the co-location arrangements by setting up an agreement, which will then be finalized by the National People's Congress.

Rao added that the proposed co- location arrangements are not unprecedented, pointing to the Shenzhen Bay Checkpoint.

Rao's remarks have sparked concerns from lawmakers, who fear the co-location arrangements would be implemented under "private treaty," damaging "the one country, two systems" principle.

Michael Tien Puk-sun, New People's Party lawmaker and Hong Kong deputy to the NPC, said that if Annex III of the Basic Law is not amended accordingly, it is highly probable that the Court of Final Appeal would rule that the arrangements violate the Basic Law.

Tien said mainland officers are not allowed to make any arrests once the train passes Shenzhen River as the Basic Law is bound by geographical locations.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 09:30 AM   #940
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How difficult is the said riverside expressway? E. g. how much time or money could it take to reroute the said expressway to a tunnel beneath the expansion of the airport?
Also note that if Shenzhen airport functioned as a commuter rail hub for Pearl River delta, a larger number of passengers could be consolidated to a more manageable number of bigger planes.
How many flights daily operate to Shenzhen now? How is the breakdown by destination? By plane size?
The Riverside Expressway is an elevated road over the Pearl River and is only new. It would be hard to justify demolishing a new road in order to route it underground, plus there are east-west road and rail tunnels (including the Shenzhen-Maoming High Speed Railway) under construction here, so a north south tunnel will have to thread through these. Despite this, there is still only room for a single Third Runway for Shenzhen Airport. Reclaiming land into the Pearl River would be ecologically and financially prohibitive. This is due to water flows in this major estuary. Away from the river, the airport is hemmed in by industrial zones, expressways and mountains. Three runways alone could not handle the air movements for a mega PRD airport.

It is fair to almost think of Shenzhen Bao'an Airport (almost 40 million passengers per year) as a purely domestic airport, with routes to many regional lower tier cities, only a few international routes serve here. While Hong Kong (almost 70 million passengers per year) is mostly an international airport with only a relative few domestic flights to major Chinese mainland cities.

Thus there has been a proposed bonded high-speed commuter railway connecting these two airports for years to enable the respective airports to operate as almost as a single entity. Although it has been shelved for the past decade, especially with the cost overruns of the West Kowloon Terminus.
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