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Old August 20th, 2009, 05:02 AM   #141
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Proposal for the West Kowloon Terminal, source Ditiezhu.com:






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Old August 20th, 2009, 05:09 AM   #142
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I am very curious to know the real reasons behind the choice of this location for the Guangzhou train station. That seems ridiculous.
This might be the decision of greedy officials who, prior to chose the location, had carefully bought some land in Panyu...
You cannot decide the location of a xxx billion $ project without a huge study justifying the choice.
Here is a quick summary justification (in simplified Chinese only) from the Guangzhou Transport Planning Research Institute:
城市综合交通枢纽的规划与建设—以新客站为例
http://www.gztpri.com/cg/20300001.pdf

Basically this terminal will be the HSR terminal for Guangzhou, Foshan and Panyu. It is centrally located amongst the three cities. Shibi is not that developed, so it provides an opportunity to develop a new CBD for the Guangzhou Metro (namely Guangzhou, Foshan and Panyu combined.)
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Old August 20th, 2009, 06:58 AM   #143
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I thought they're developing Tianhe as the new Guangzhou CBD. Do they need to start another one already?
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Old August 20th, 2009, 03:25 PM   #144
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I thought they're developing Tianhe as the new Guangzhou CBD. Do they need to start another one already?
Tianhe is solely for Guangzhou, but Shibi is the centroid of all three.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 08:56 PM   #145
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time for another Maglev line connecting the train stations and airports.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 03:46 PM   #146
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Opinion : Express rail link will generate huge economic benefits for HK
20 August 2009
South China Morning Post

I refer to the article on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link ("The $39b question no one asked", August 18).

The primary objective of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express rail link is to connect Hong Kong with the mainland's 12,000-kilometre high-speed rail network. The new Guangzhou terminus at Shibi is designed to be a mega transportation hub, well served by national high-speed rail lines, Guangdong inter-city rail networks, the metro lines of Guangzhou and Foshan , buses and coaches, and a number of major highways. In fact, it will become one of the four biggest passenger transport centres in the country.

In future, commuters from Hong Kong will be able to switch from Shibi to the proposed Beijing-Guangzhou passenger line, reaching Wuhan in five hours and Beijing in 10 hours, which is much shorter than at present. The new metro and inter-city lines being planned by the mainland authorities will provide convenient access to different parts of Guangzhou and a fast connection with other cities in Guangdong.

Shibi is under rapid transformation. It is situated at the heart of the Guangzhou and Foshan metropolitan zone. As a focal point of national and regional traffic, it will be developed into a major city centre and a travellers' destination in its own right. The construction of a comprehensive development area of 11.4 square kilometres around the Shibi hub started earlier this year, which is positioned as another commercial centre of Guangzhou.

As for the Hong Kong section of the express rail link, we are working to start its construction in late 2009 for completion in 2015. The rail link will reduce the travelling time to key cities in the Pearl River Delta region and beyond. It is expected that it will generate huge economic benefits in the order of HK$80 billion over 50 years for Hong Kong, in terms of time saving.

Over the years, we have been keeping the Legislative Council and the public informed of the development of this express rail link and will continue to do so. As a matter of fact, that rail link will join up with the national and regional transport systems at Shibi, as was reported to Legco as early as April 2005, shortly after an agreement was reached with the mainland authorities in March of that year.

Yau Shing-mu, acting Secretary for Transport and Housing
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 08:22 PM   #147
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Opinion : Better to make express rail link part of the existing network
28 August 2009
SCMP

In his letter ("Express rail link will generate huge economic benefits for HK", August 20), Yau Shing-mu, acting secretary for transport and housing, completely misses the point of your article on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link ("The $39b question no one asked", August 18).

His justification failed to address the HK$39 billion cost for the Hong Kong section.

Better patronage could be gained at a fraction of the cost by locating the terminus at Kam Sheung Road and using the existing and improved rail network to connect to the majority of travellers' destinations, as opposed to the less convenient and expensive deep underground station planned for West Kowloon.

An interchange to West Rail at Kam Sheung Road would provide good access to New Territories West, thus satisfying the justified complaints from residents in these areas over the lack of a station on the proposed line to Kowloon and would also give direct connections to Tsuen Wan and to West and South Kowloon.

An extension of the airport line from Tsing Yi to Kam Sheung Road would give a direct connection to Hong Kong Island and Chek Lap Kok. Longer term, an East Rail extension to Kam Sheung Road, via the Northern Link, would give access to New Territories East.

A terminus at Kam Sheung Road would be operationally superior to one at West Kowloon and cheaper and quicker to construct, thus making the hoped for 2015-16 completion date a real possibility.

Better and quicker access to most of Hong Kong would be at the expense of saving a few minutes travelling to West Kowloon. This is nothing compared to the 45-minute journey from Shibi to central Guangzhou or the five hours to Wuhan or 10 hours to Beijing.

So why did the Legislative Council not vote for it?

The reason is simple; they were never given this as an option.

Now is the time for our Legco members to ask the question why and bring about changes to reduce costs, and give Hong Kong a better rail system sooner.

Ronald Taylor, Western
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Old September 7th, 2009, 07:51 PM   #148
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Delta rail links to make bridge redundant
4 September 2009
SCMP

The controversy surrounding the Hong Kong to Guangzhou rail plans has so far overlooked two important facts.

First, the through train service to Guangzhou East station will continue to operate.

This has been clearly shown on KCR plans for many years, and continues to appear in MTR Corporation presentations.

However, it will be diverted from the East Rail lines near Lo Wu to connect with the new high-speed rail lines, so that both services terminate in the new Kowloon West station.

For travellers headed to Guangzhou East station, the journey time on the Hong Kong portion will be reduced from 45 minutes to perhaps only 10 minutes.

The second fact is that the new high speed line to Shibi station competes for travellers with the Hong Kong-Macau-Zhuhai bridge project and arguably will provide a better service for many travellers than bus services across the proposed bridge.

There will be one express train station stop just before Shibi, at Dongcong station, situated between Shunde and Zhongshan, that would be only 30 minutes from Hong Kong and ideal for many businesspeople.

Legislators need to inform themselves about the "Guangshen" high-speed rail line that will be completed in 2010.

It will connect Shibi station to Zhongshan, Zhuhai and also to Jiangmen.

There are 14 stations on the Guangshen line, which will serve a population of 6.5 million in Zhongshan, Xiaolan and Jiangmen, and can be reached within 90 minutes from Hong Kong once the high-speed lines are in operation.

Together, these two rail lines combine to provide a high-speed journey from Hong Kong to many destinations just to the north of Zhuhai and will be much faster and more comfortable than travelling by bus across the proposed Hong Kong-Macau-Zhuhai bridge.

At best the bridge can only serve the 2 million population of Macau and Zhuhai.

The Hong Kong government has provided the public with some extraordinarily high projections of vehicles that will use it.

Given the lack of understanding by officials on Guangdong's rail projects, the traffic projections for the bridge must now be reviewed.

Did anyone accurately foresee what volume of passengers would logically opt for high-speed rail instead of bus when travelling north of Zhuhai?
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Old September 7th, 2009, 09:51 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
However, it will be diverted from the East Rail lines near Lo Wu to connect with the new high-speed rail lines, so that both services terminate in the new Kowloon West station.

For travellers headed to Guangzhou East station, the journey time on the Hong Kong portion will be reduced from 45 minutes to perhaps only 10 minutes.
Let me get this straight here:

West Kowloon to New Guangzhou is planned at 48 minutes.

Hung Hom to Guangzhou East is 100 minutes. When the diversion from the East Rail line is complete, West Kowloon to Guangzhou East will be 65 minutes. It is implied that Shenzhen to Guangzhou East is 55 minutes, at a speed of 200 km/h. When plans to raise the speed of this section to 250 km/h are complete, the mainland section can be completed in 44 minutes.

This means that once both projects are done, West Kowloon to Guangzhou East is 54 minutes, which is just 6 minutes more than to New Guangzhou and at a much more central location.

Something is not adding up here.
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Old September 14th, 2009, 04:05 AM   #150
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Pictures of FuTian Station construction site - September 13th

Here are some pictures I took yesterday under heavy heat wave.
image hosted on flickr

image hosted on flickr

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Old September 15th, 2009, 05:53 AM   #151
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Thanks for your effort... nice pictures.
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Old September 22nd, 2009, 05:00 AM   #152
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High-speed Guangzhou train may cost more than existing link
20 September 2009
South China Morning Post

Passengers might have to pay more to ride on the planned high-speed Hong Kong-to-Guangzhou rail link than on the existing through train, a senior official said.

But the government would not seek to quickly recover the cost of the HK$39.5 billion it will spend on the Hong Kong leg of the planned Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express railway, Undersecretary for Transport and Housing Yau Shing-mu said.

Speaking on an RTHK programme, Yau said the planned new railway would alleviate heavy passenger traffic on the East Rail, which carried about 220,000 travellers to Lo Wu daily. The link would also connect Hong Kong to the high-speed and high-frequency inter-city network on the mainland, he said.

The Transport and Housing Bureau has projected that 99,000 passengers would use the planned new link daily in 2016. The new rail link will halve travelling time to Guangzhou to 48 minutes.

"The express rail is going to be more convenient than the current MTR through-train service [which costs HK$190 per trip]," he said. "It may charge a higher fare - but a final decision has not been made yet."

Yau said officials aimed to operate a competitive rail link and attract passengers to the new service.

Concerns have been aired that construction of the planned new express link will cost much more than originally budgeted. Government engineers said some time ago the cost could top HK$60 billion. Yau would not reveal the latest cost estimates but admitted that they might be higher than originally envisaged.
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Old October 13th, 2009, 07:24 PM   #153
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Costly railway plan sets off alarm bells
3 October 2009
South China Morning Post

Hong Kong's government is synonymous with impressive infrastructure projects. Among those being built or on the drawing board are the West Kowloon Cultural District, the bridge to Macau, the Central to Wan Chai bypass and redevelopment of the Kai Tak airport site. The reasoning for such schemes is simple enough: projecting our city's image, creating jobs and expanding the economy. All these, plus integration with the mainland, tap into the construction of a high-speed rail line to the border to link up with a section running from suburban Guangzhou.

Making travel between Hong Kong and the mainland faster is in the interests of people on both sides of the border. The line would also link up with the wider-gauge, national high-speed network. But the project has nonetheless rightly raised concern.

The Hong Kong side of the line will, kilometre by kilometre, be the most expensive of its type in the world based on the present estimate of HK$39.5 billion - which is expected to increase, perhaps by as much as 50 per cent. Authorities have also been less than transparent about the scheme.

For the investment, we will get a terminus in West Kowloon and 26 kilometres of track. The high cost is down to most of the project being underground. Planners say that this is necessary because of Hong Kong's urban circumstances; too many buildings are in the way of the proposed line, and a railway station in the midst of the planned West Kowloon Cultural District would be unsightly. The Guangdong side of the line will be above ground.

The government originally promoted the project as a means of dramatically cutting travel time to Guangzhou. When the route was revealed, this proved not to be the case. As the last station will be at Shibi, in the city's Panyu district, the time difference with the present through train will be minimal: the business district is 18 stops away on Guangzhou's metro line. Traversing the 140,000 square metre terminus to transfer to other transport will also presumably be time-consuming.

Authorities have not been forthcoming with crucial details. Plans for the terminus have yet to be made public, even though it appears to account for half the cost. No indication has been given of the anticipated ticket price, or how long it will take for the project to break even. The operating cost has not been revealed. There has been no word on how the line will connect to the existing transport infrastructure.

The express rail link is among projects Chief Executive Donald Tsang Yam-kuen unveiled as a means for Hong Kong to get out of recession. They will create jobs and move the economy forward. Some - the line among them - will further integration with the mainland. There is no doubt about the immediate benefits.

Hong Kong's built-up environment, geography and geology ensure that construction projects, big and small, are expensive. Given this, the government has to ensure that what it undertakes with public funding is good for Hong Kong. Plans have to have community backing. Public consultation and transparency are of the utmost importance.

The red tape that stymies large-scale infrastructure projects elsewhere in the world does not apply here. Years, not decades, lapse between conception and construction. Such ease demands that projects be thoroughly thought through. They must not be wasteful. Most importantly, they have to provide value for money.
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Old October 15th, 2009, 11:01 AM   #154
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Protesters derail cash talks with transport chief
14 October 2009
The Standard

Angry Shek Kong villagers last night caused chaos at a public consultation over a controversial rail link, branding the government as being insincere about compensating them for lost farmland and homes.

The confrontation with Secretary for Transport and Housing Eva Cheng Yu- wah took place in Choi Yuen Tsuen.

Cheng earlier said the government is considering raising the compensation for farmland from an average of HK$200 per square foot to HK$500.

She held three separate meetings with residents of Wang Toi Shan and Choi Yuen Tsuen in Shek Kong and Pat Heung in Yuen Long, all of whom will be affected by the proposed Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link.

Accompanying her was the Heung Yee Kuk chief Lau Wong-fat, who said he will help villagers find suitable alternative farmland.

At Choi Yuen Tsuen, about 20 protesters in green chanted slogans to interrupt Cheng's speech, saying they would never leave the village.

They also claimed her visit was just a show, adding that the government is ``insincere'' despite its promises.

Cheng said villagers would be offered reasonable alternatives, including public housing or transfers from temporary to permanent homes while ensuring proper use of taxpayers' money.

``I understand that the villagers have strong feelings about their homeland, but the express railway is extremely vital to the economic development of Hong Kong,'' she said, adding the current proposal would affect the least number of families.

Earlier, Cheng said compensation will be based on existing policies, but will include ``special arrangements'' depending on ``individual circumstances.''

Under the existing compensation policy, Class C farmlands will be compensated at HK$200 per square foot while those at Class A will get HK$500 psf.

The government is also considering compensation of between HK$3,000 and HK$10,000 for squatter hut residents not eligible for public housing.

Construction of the 26-kilometer Hong Kong line of the 140km rail link is scheduled to begin at the end of the year and be completed by 2015.

The line will bypass Choi Yuen Tsuen, although it will become the site of an emergency station, affecting about 150 villagers. West Kowloon is due to be the terminus in Hong Kong and Shibi in Guangzhou.Leung Kai-chi, part-time lecturer at the University of Hong Kong's department of geography, suggested the terminal station for Hong Kong be built at Kam Sheung Road in Yuen Long instead.

Leung said this would be more convenient for passengers.
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Old October 17th, 2009, 08:42 AM   #155
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Transport bosses reject cost-cutting plan, but engineers say options to be considered
13 October 2009
SCMP

Transport officials insisted that a proposal by a group of engineers that could cut the cost of the new high-speed cross-border railway by half was unfeasible, after the group explained its plan to them.

Nine members of the Professional Commons' railway expert group held a three-hour meeting yesterday on the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong express link with the undersecretary for transport and housing, Yau Shing-mu, and officials from the Transport and Housing Bureau, Highways Department and MTR Corporation.

"Officials have raised important doubts about the proposal, from the scale of land resumption to the cost involved," a bureau spokeswoman said after the meeting. She said there had been sufficient discussion on the issue since the plan was suggested in 2000, and the public hoped that construction could begin as soon as possible.

The official reaction contrasted markedly with the Professional Commons' view of the meeting. The group said the government had agreed to explore better options.

The meeting came a few days after the think tank proposed moving the line's Hong Kong terminus from West Kowloon to Kam Sheung Road in the New Territories. It said the change would mean the new line would cost HK$25 billion, much less than the HK$39.5 billion cost in an official government estimate in 2007, or the latest unofficial estimate of HK$50 billion.

"We had a harmonious meeting and the government - although it has been recommending the West Kowloon terminus option - says it is open to other options," engineer Albert Lai Kwong-tak said, adding that he hoped the government could organise a forum to collect the public's views as soon as possible.

The group said it would also explain its proposal to the Legislative Council's transport panel and district councils.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 01:23 PM   #156
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Executive Council Today (Oct 20 2009) Finally approves the High-Speed Railway.

Gov't Press Release:
ExCo approves implementation of high-speed rail link

RTHK News:
Exco backs HK-Guangzhou rail link
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Old October 20th, 2009, 07:28 PM   #157
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One more hurdle to get through... the LegCo for $$$.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #158
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I can't believe the price tag is so high yet the fare will be cheaper than the existing service. The financials don't convince me it will ever breakeven. Given how far the Guangzhou station will be, I'm still going for the CRH out of Shenzhen. I think in the end the time savings will be eroded by travel time into Guangzhou centre.
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Old October 20th, 2009, 08:30 PM   #159
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Quote:
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I can't believe the price tag is so high yet the fare will be cheaper than the existing service. The financials don't convince me it will ever breakeven. Given how far the Guangzhou station will be, I'm still going for the CRH out of Shenzhen. I think in the end the time savings will be eroded by travel time into Guangzhou centre.
perhaps, but think about the long distance services that will continue from there all the way to (and back from) Guiyang (Chengdu-, Kunming-, Lanzhou-, Xi'An-Hong Kong) and Changsha (Wuhan-, Beijing-, Shanghai-Hong Kong)

in the future there will be plenty of very long distance services coming and going
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Old October 21st, 2009, 04:06 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I can't believe the price tag is so high yet the fare will be cheaper than the existing service. The financials don't convince me it will ever breakeven. Given how far the Guangzhou station will be, I'm still going for the CRH out of Shenzhen. I think in the end the time savings will be eroded by travel time into Guangzhou centre.
It's pretty clear that Shibi will replace Tianhe as the centre of Guangzhou. Just check out what Tianhe was like twenty years ago and you see why.
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