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Old July 31st, 2009, 11:31 PM   #221
bongo-anders
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Haha i would love to see that in commercial service, actually my brother saw one in Odense heading for Copenhagen.
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Old August 1st, 2009, 10:03 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never give up View Post
Is this DSBs Plan B to get the IC4 trains running?
Not quite, but there IS a Plan B, and that plan is now in motion.

Allow me to start in a different corner, though. The Danes have a long history of stupidly assuming that their own attitude to contracts is commonly shared: the vendor must fill the terms of the contract, come hell or high water, and thus effectively provide insurance against god-knows-what. The Danes do not share the Roman Law tradition of repeat renegotiations because of one "unforeseen event" after the other. This works well in day-to-day transactions between individuals, but the public services have in the last 5-10 years burnt their fingers badly on a number of large purchases. The list includes, along with the IC4 trains and the rolling stock for Copenhagen Metro, drones for the Danish airforce and helicopters for the navy.

My compatriotes have finally come to realise that their approach has been unrealistic. They have time and again insisted on buying only the newest and most modern material AND AT THE SAME TIME expected that this material works on day 1 - or else, this is all the vendor's problem. An eye opening moment came when an irate official from Agosta-Westland berated the Danish military publicly: "Look, if you expect this to work impeccably from the beginning, buy models that have 5-10 years of service experience. The Danes bought helicopters that were straight out of the prototype phase, then sent five low level mechanics to pick them up on the expectation that we had solved all the teething problems imaginably. The British air force sent a team of 100 technicians!"

I think DSB has learnt the lesson. Because Plan B consists not only in extracting a hefty discount from Ansaldo Breda. It also consists of retaining (with part of the money they have saved?) a big team of inhouse technicians to finally make the IC4s work. The situation is one of "Enough of those j***a***s! We'll deal with it ourselves!" Well... good luck to them.

Last edited by hans280; August 5th, 2009 at 01:32 PM.
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Old August 6th, 2009, 05:34 PM   #223
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...and today I saw set nr. 7 leaving Copenhagen C for the airport.

[IMG]http://i26.************/mi0x8k.jpg[/IMG]
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Old August 13th, 2009, 05:43 PM   #224
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Great collection representing a huge timespan.
May I include one of mine; a prototype loco hauled train set, popularily called IC5.
2 sets were built, I think in the 90´s and ran for about 5 years before being abandoned for the train set concept, the IC3. The sets were refurbished and sold to Iran.

[IMG]http://i28.************/2v0cobq.jpg[/IMG]
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Old August 13th, 2009, 05:58 PM   #225
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Huge timespan? The trains have been purchased over a period of 60 years (and the steam engines obviously even earlier...) but I suspect that all of the ones you see on the photos are still in some form of use. For example, the ageing "skinnebusser" ("rail busses") that you see on one of the photos with the designation "Aarhus-Odder" are as far as I know still used by some of the private railway companies in Jutland.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 06:46 PM   #226
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Here is an interesting new blog site with up-to-date Danish Rail news

http://danishrailnews.blogspot.com/
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Old March 16th, 2011, 03:45 PM   #227
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As I posted in the Dansih subforum:

It's going well for the smaller private rail companies in Denmark.

On Zeeland they have a 7,6 percentage increase, and all others report the same statement. Frederiksværkbanen has had an increase on 30,5 percent since 2007.

Its all because of a modernisation, mainly on the trains, but a few places also on the tracks. So the Frederiksværkbanen has increased its maximum speed limit to 100 km/h and has made 3 trains per hours, where one of these is an "express train" with fewer stops, therefore faster.


Dansih article and more graphics from Ingeniøren:
http://ing.dk/artikel/117260-milliar...il-privatbaner
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Old March 17th, 2011, 12:43 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alseimik View Post
As I posted in the Dansih subforum:

It's going well for the smaller private rail companies in Denmark.

On Zeeland they have a 7,6 percentage increase, and all others report the same statement. Frederiksværkbanen has had an increase on 30,5 percent since 2007.

Its all because of a modernisation, mainly on the trains, but a few places also on the tracks. So the Frederiksværkbanen has increased its maximum speed limit to 100 km/h and has made 3 trains per hours, where one of these is an "express train" with fewer stops, therefore faster.

Danish article and more graphics from Ingeniøren:
http://ing.dk/artikel/117260-milliar...il-privatbaner
and now a 7% increase in the number of S train passengers.

Photo of Copenhagen C with two S train units, one of which is advertising the green aspect of public transport.

[IMG]http://i51.************/23l1u9j.jpg[/IMG]
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Old March 19th, 2011, 12:39 AM   #229
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The 2 kilometre long extra rail track, for regional trains and cargo trains, allowing the existing track to be a fast track, when a train is docked in the new rail, is almost done!

The track will extend the capacity on Ringsted-Copenhagen line with 15 % in the west going direction.

Official images from bane.dk:






(Old, before track laying)
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Old March 19th, 2011, 01:05 AM   #230
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The regional rail from Kalundborg to Roskilde, is about to be extended with a second track, for capacity of course, but also a speed limit upgrade from 120 km/t to 160 km/t, as the other big regional rail in the south to Næstved and Nykøbing.

Work will start marts 2012, and it will be done in 2015

Picture from bane.dk


And here's plans for extensions of the four stations, I think it's wonderful they get tunnels and bridges for passengers.

Order: Vippeørd, Tøllese, Hvalsø, Lejre.







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Old April 18th, 2011, 02:54 AM   #231
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Does anyone know how many IC4 have already been delivered by AnsaldoBreda?
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Old April 18th, 2011, 05:38 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Does anyone know how many IC4 have already been delivered by AnsaldoBreda?
LIBYA | High Speed Rail

I just know that they have (always) problems. Ansaldo Breda !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Never give up View Post
An interesting photo in International Railway Journal, has started a series of articles in the Danish media.
The big question is how a Ansaldo built Danish IC4 diesel Intercity train set can suddenly appear in Libiya.
One theory is that Berlisconi (Silvio Corrupzioni as Danish cartoonists call him) sent it as a present to Gadaffi on the occasion of his 40 years anniversary as dictator, and probaby in the hope of securing some HS orders for Ansaldo.
Well I hope the train works better than the models sent to Denmark, where the order for over 90 sets is over 5 years delayed and still doesn´t work very well.

The Libiyan version.

[IMG]http://i52.************/2n87r5z.jpg[/IMG]

and the Danish version.

[IMG]http://i56.************/2web9k9.jpg[/IMG]
Edit :




Quote:


DSB IC4 train shows up in Libya


A Danish IC4 train has been spotted in Libya. But what does it in an African country? The DSB did not. Actually they did not even know it was there


By Freja Czajkowski , Tuesday 15th February 2011 pm. 06:33



A picture of a IC4 trains with Arabic letters. It surprised one of ing.dk 's readers over and sent the picture and accompanying article to the editors.

For when the Italian company AnsaldoBreda already has had difficulty delivering went to Denmark, what makes a IC4 trains so in Libya?

And it's a really good question. A question which even the DSB could not answer.

"It's a duck," was the first explanation.

The image was brought together with an article in International Railway Journal, on a railway that will link Tunisia and Egypt. The caption was the train presented as a Danish IC4 trains.

DSB had seen a similar article three months ago and rejected in the beginning that it would be true. In the picture, they thought, was manipulated. But as the article which ing.dk had got hold of was from January this year, DSB had to investigate further.

And it is indeed a Danish IC4 trains ended up in the African country. It's just not something that DSB has been informed. The question is, what it all doing in Libya.

"As far as I could find out it is a udstillingstog. And why it is down there as a udstillingstog has something to do with the fact that it is considering building a longer runway down there. But I do not know. I just know that it is a udstillingstog, "said Chief of DSB IC4 project, Torben Kronstam.

The article from International Railway Journal, says that a five-kilometer long runway has already been built and is currently being piloted. It is what the Danish IC4 train is used.

But it's not something that I need to know?

"We have a delivery plan, and we care about that when the train is delivered, then it's there. This train is not a train set, which we have been delivered yet. This is apparently a train as we get later in the delivery, "he says

So it's a train coming to Denmark at a later date?

"Probably, yes. And when I say probably, it is because I do not know whether they will deliver a train more and throw to Denmark and then keep the train down there. I do not know. But as long as the train is under production, it's AnsaldoBreda property, "says Torben Kronstam.

DSB gets right now supplied about three trainsets per month, and the agreement must AnsaldoBreda observe under an agreement reached in May 2009

"I think AnsaldoBreda has plenty to supply to us. So I think it's a gimmick. Now you will build a railway in Libya, and then it could be nice with a modern train to put on top of the rails, so customers can see what this might lead to, "he says.

In investigating further what is happening or is case closed for you?

"We do not believe that there is not anything dangerous or strange in this. They are producing some trains for us and all the trains involved in the delivery, we have been watching since we signed our agreement with them in May 2009. There is not any of them has disappeared. "

But you say yes, it is a train that I must have delivered?

"Yes, but they have to deliver the last train us in the third quarter of 2012, and there is after all a way to go yet


http://ing.dk/artikel/116494-dsbs-ic...er-op-i-libyen
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Last edited by Gadiri; April 18th, 2011 at 06:14 AM.
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Old April 18th, 2011, 10:21 AM   #233
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AnsaldoBreda supplies 3 trainsets per month, and they have about 17 months left to meet the Q3 2012 deadline. Does anyone know how much trains have been delivered to DSB by date, and have been approved?

The story about the Libyan IC4 is interesting, there have been some interior shots and it looks like a very exclusive train for Ghadaffi. There have been reports about this train being a gift from Italian prime minister Berlusconi to Ghadaffi. If the train is a gift, I think this is outrageous. The IC4 design is made specifically for DSB, so it would be unfair of AnsaldoBreda to just sell that design to another country - even if the Italian government pays for it.

Personally, I can't wait for the day AnsaldoBreda files for bankrupcy. While the technical knowhow might be there (they do build the vehicles, after all) they have proven to be utterly incompetent when it comes to doing business. They've screwed the Danish over with the IC4, they've screwed the Dutch over with the V250, they've screwed over the people of Los Angeles with metro cars that are years late, the 1995 AnsaldoBreda stock in Atlanta is a joke, and AnsaldoBreda was doing the same to Boston until they realized their reputation was at stake.

So far, the only projects this company has managed to finish on time are the projects where the management is done by another company, just like the heavy lifting. The ETR500 for example was built by Alstom, Bombardier and AnsaldoBreda. If this had been just an AnsaldoBreda product, the ETR500 would've probably still been under development.

It will be good for any person or company involved in the railway business when this miserable company is killed off for good and its technical assets (such as its knowhow and people) to be merged into Alstom or Stadler. Those two companies do a far better job than AnsaldoBreda has ever been able to.
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Old April 18th, 2011, 01:46 PM   #234
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AnsaldoBreda manufactures the Sirio, a hugely popular tram. Gothenburg has a large order of those.
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Old April 18th, 2011, 01:56 PM   #235
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Quote:
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AnsaldoBreda manufactures the Sirio, a hugely popular tram. Gothenburg has a large order of those.
There have also been a number of complaints about the Gothenburg trams. There were numerous problems with the electronics, misaligned wheel bases, faulty air conditioning and the fact that they are so heavy they have actually caused damage to the tracks where other rolling stock haven't. The wheel bearings have become damaged after high traffic far faster than they should have been and it has been found that construction of the bogeys has been substandard. In late 2008 it was found that parts of the trams were not fully corrosion-proof too. Some of the trams have been taken out of service to act as a store of spare parts as the manufacturers have not been able to provide spare parts to Gothenburg.

Needless to say, the procurement of new trams (no more from AnsaldoBreda) is occurring currently and at some point this year the tender for the next batch of trams will be fielded. I sincerely hope that AnsaldoBreda don't win the contract as their current stock has been shown to be highly deficient.
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Old April 18th, 2011, 04:24 PM   #236
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I've seen a video of some AnsaldoBreda trams in Firenze (Florence, Italy) and while the trams appear to do their job, they made an awful amount of noise at that. One of the comments underneath the video compared the sound made by these trams to the Alstom trams running on the RandstadRail network in the Netherlands, which are much more quiet.
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Old April 18th, 2011, 07:16 PM   #237
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Why can't Italians make proper trains?
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Old April 18th, 2011, 07:44 PM   #238
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I have no idea. All I know is that trains which come from Alstom's Italian plants (which was Fiat) have their difficulties as well, just look at the ETR610 Pendolino's that have suffered major delays as well. Not as bad as the average delay at AnsaldoBreda, but still pretty bad.

Why they suck at it? I don't know. It's a fact of life, I guess. Just like other countries suck at other things.
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Old April 18th, 2011, 07:52 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Why can't Italians make proper trains?
I don't know, but it kinda seems like they don't it seriously, at all. Great designers, but even before i heard of AnsaldoBreda, I've always been told never to let Italians build anything, let the Germans do it instead
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Old April 18th, 2011, 09:58 PM   #240
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But to be fair the one half of the Company Ansaldo did a good job with Copenhagens driverless metro, even though they had some starting problems with the sensors on the tracks that stopped the trains when not supposed to.
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