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Old March 1st, 2013, 11:46 PM   #381
bongo-anders
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The last few days have been exciting for us railway entusiast in Denmark.


Connections to the Fehmarnt Belt fixed link


First came the news that the government has found the money for a replacement for the old Storestrøms Bridge between Sjælland/Zealand and Falster and that the railway line between Ringsted and the Fehmarn Belt fixed link is upgraded to 200 km/h.


Possible speed upgrades

Then came a screening report about possible speed upgrades to the branch lines when they get the ERTMS 2 treatment in 5-9 years time.


The railway lines where the internal rates (socio economics) are 100% sure

Aalborg - Frederikshavn
Speed limit raised from 120 to 160 km/h
Reduced travel time - 16 minutes
Internal rate of Return - 20%
Price - 82 million

Struer - Thisted
Speed limit raised from 75 to 110 km/h
Reduced travel time - 23 minutes
Internal rate of return - 10%
Price - 93 million

Skanderborg - Skjern
Speed limit raised from 100 and 120 to 140 km/h between Skanderborg and Herning
100 to 120 km/h between Herning and Skjern
Reduced travel time - 20 minutes
Internal rate of return - 12%
Price - 177 million

Bramming - Tønder
Speed limit raised from 100 to 120 km/h
Reduced travel time - 14 minutes
Internal rate of return - 13 %
Price - 83 million

Holbæk - Kalundborg
Speed limit raised from 120 to 160 km/h
Reduced travel time - 14 minutes
Internat rate of return - 20%
Price - 86 million

Køge Nord - Næstved
Speed limit raised from 120 to 160 km/h
Reduced travel time - 10 minutes
Internal rate of return - 30%
Price - 46 million

Østerport - Helsingør
Speed limit raised from 100 to 120 km/h between Østerport and Klampenborg
120 to 160 km/h between Klampenborg and Nivå
120 to 140 km/h between Nivå and Helsingør
Reduced travel time - 6 minutes
Internal rate of return - 27%
Price - 112 million


The railway lines with a more uncertain internal rate and needs more calculation.

Langå - Struer
Speed limit raised from 120 to 160 km/h
Reduced travel time - 14 minutes
Internal rate of return - 6%
Price - 118 million

Vejle - Struer
Speed limit raised from 110 to 120 km/h between Vejle and Give
120 to 160 km/h between Give and Struer
Reduced travel time - 24 minutes
Internal rate of return - 5%
Price - 297 million

Esbjerg - Struer
Speed limit raised from 120 to 140 km/h between Esbjerg and Varde
100 to 140 km/h between Varde and Holstebro
120 to 160 km/h betwen Holstebro and Struer (part of Vejle - Struer)
Reduced travel time - 35 minutes
Internal rate of return - 13%
Price - 109 million


The railway lines with a negative internal rate, 5% and under is regarded as negative.

Tinglev - Sønderborg
Speed limit raised from 100 to 120 km/h
Reduced travel time - 1 minute
Internal rate of return - 4%
Price - 15 million

Odense - Svendborg
Speed limit raised from 120 to 150 km/h between Odense and Ringe
Nothing done between Ringe and Svendborg
Reduced travel time - 3 1/2 minutes
Internal rate of return - 0%
Price - 72 million


http://www.ft.dk/samling/20121/almde...72/1220036.pdf





And then the big news from today, they steal 27,5 billion DKK from the rich oil and gas companies in the North sea and gives them to the poor train commuters.

Togfund DK (lousy name) worth 27,5 billion DKK.

Electricification of all main lines.

Fredericia - Århus in 2020
Kalundborg - Roskilde in 2022
Aarhus - Frederikshavn and Vejle - Struer in 2025.

Køge Nord - Næstved and Ringsted - Fehmarn Belt fixed link is already decided and are ready from 2019.
Lunderskov - Esbjerg are ready in 2015.


Timeplanen

Train travel of only 1 hour between the largest danish cities so Copenhagen - Odense takes 1 hour, Odense - Aarhus takes 1 hour and Aarhus - Aalborg also one hour.


New railway line on Vestfyen/West Funen from Odense to Middelfart, probably between 200 and 250 km/h.

New railway bridge over Vejle fjord, its between Fredericia and Horsens.

New line between Aarhus and Hovedgård just north of Horsens, probably between 200 and 250 km/h.

Upgraded railway line between Hovedgård and Vejle fjord, probably also from 180 to 200 km/h


Already approved projects that are part of this project.


Upgrades between Aalborg and Hobro from 120 to 160 km/h, but sadly not 200 km/h because it was to expensive
Upgrades from Ringsted to Odense from 180 to 200 km/h
New Railway line between Copenhagen and Ringsted at 250 km/h


http://www.trm.dk/da/publikationer/2...dens+jernbane/
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 12:39 PM   #382
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The Danish government today has announced a massive 3,7 billion Euro plan for the Danish railway infrastructure.

The plan will implement the ambitious “One hour plan” linking the 5 largest cities in the country and consists of three new sections of new double track railway on Funen and in Jutland and an expansion of electrification to cover all the main lines in the country.

The plan for a one hour journey from Copenhagen to Odense is already under construction in the form of a new line between Copenhagen and Ringsted. This will followed up by an upgrading of the line from Ringsted to Odense via the Great Belt Link.

The first part of the plan is new construction.

The section from Odense to Aarhus is the most difficult part to achieve in one hour, as the line first meanders through the hills of western Funen and loops into 2 towns at the bottom of inlets, Vejle and Randers and inland to Skanderborg in Jutland. The new plan consists of a new direct line from Odense to Middelfart on western Funen, a by-pass for Vejle in the form of a new bridge over the mouth of Vejle Fjord, and a new direct line starting at Hovedgård, by-passing Skanderborg to the east, and rejoining the present line in the southern suburbs of Aarhus. Vejle will continue to be served by Inter City services on the diagonal line northwards towards Brande, Herning, Holstebro and Struer, as well as regional services on the present main line between Aarhus and Esbjerg.

The third section of the One hour plan from Aarhus to Aalborg can be covered in one hour, by a combination of upgrading, new signaling and electrification.

The new section of line on western Funen, will now allow a journey time of one hour between Odense and Esbjerg. Esbjerg was not part of the original One hour proposal. The Kolding - Esbjerg section of this line is currently being electrified.
The estimated cost of these plans is 2,52 billion Euro and are tentatively scheduled for completion in 2022.

The other part of the plan is comprehensive electrification.

The section between Copenhagen and Odense is already electrified and the new line to Ringsted will be electrified when opened in 2018. Electrification south of Ringsted is part of the Femern Link project and will be completed by 2021.

The section of the Odense to Aarhus line is already electrified to Fredericia and this will be extended to Aarhus by 2020, coordinated with the new signaling project.

The line from Aarhus to Aalborg will be electrified shortly afterwards, culminating with the Aalborg to Frederikshavn section, which is outside the One hour plan, by 2025.

The single track diagonal line in Jutland from Vejle to Struer via Herning and Holstebro is also to be electrified by 2025. This line did not figure too well in the recent rentability studies conducted by the National Rail Authority, but has been included in the plans.
A busy suburban commuter line west of Copenhagen from Roskilde to Holbæk, which is at present being double tracked and it’s continuation by a single track line to Kalundborg will also be electrified, removing the last diesel run line on the island of Sjælland. The estimated cost of the electrification is 1,16 billion Euro.

New electric material will be required for these newly electrified lines and, hopefully wiser by experience with the IC4 scandal, 2-3 train sets of a well proven material from different manufacturers, possibly double deck, will be test run in passenger carrying services to test their reliability, economy and popularity with the passengers before a choice is made. It is possible that both a regional and an Intercity version of the same train could be considered. The future of the IC4 train sets now appears very uncertain as there will be no suitable services left for them to run, after this electrification programme is complete in 2025.

It has now been decided to replace the old single track Storstrøms bridge on the line towards the proposed Femern link to Germany. This bridge was closed last year for over a month, when cracks in the construction were discovered and a thorough examination has revealed that an expensive repair of the bridge, built by Dorman Long in 1936, will be required if it is to carry the heavy traffic expected when the link to Germany opens in 2021. As line across the bridge is single track and has a 100 km/h speed restriction, it will also constitute a bottleneck on this busy main line linking Scandinavia to Europe. A new more direct double track bridge designed for 200 km/h will be built to the west of the existing bridge, which will then demolished.


[IMG]http://i46.************/3495elh.jpg[/IMG]
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 01:05 PM   #383
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Thanks for the update. Sounds very impressive! This thread started some years ago with discussion about Denmark possibly having the worst railway system in Western Europe. I don't think it's true now and certainly won't be then all these improvements are realized.

Regarding the plan for 1 h travel times between stations on Copenhagen-Aalborg line, what are the current best times on the line?
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 02:40 PM   #384
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Today, the fastest services between Copenhagen and Aalborg is 4 hr 21 min.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 02:46 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Thanks for the update. Sounds very impressive! This thread started some years ago with discussion about Denmark possibly having the worst railway system in Western Europe. I don't think it's true now and certainly won't be then all these improvements are realized.

Regarding the plan for 1 h travel times between stations on Copenhagen-Aalborg line, what are the current best times on the line?
Approx. times with an ordinary limited stop express train:

Copenhagen C - Odense: 1 hour 15 min.
Odense - Aarhus : 1 hour 33 min.
Aarhus - Aalborg: 1 hour 21 min.
Odense - Esbjerg: 1 hour 23 min.

These times are exclusive station dwelling times, usually 2-4 min., more in Aarhus as trains have reverse and join up or uncouple sections.
There are a few very limited stop trains between Copenhagen and Aarhus with times of 2 hours 40 min.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 11:45 PM   #386
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It just hit me that this is a goodbye to the Italian scam also know as IC4, maybe Arriva can take care of them on their non electrical railways in central, south western and western Jutland but I think that they will rather keep their Coradia Lint instead

They will however still be the backbone in the Danish intercity traffic together with IC3 (mostly) until at least 2020 when Aarhus is coupled on the electrical railway system.

When all the lines are under wire in 2025 then our beloved IC3 has seen almost 40 years of service and IC4 around 20 years (and 10 of them on test) before being withdrawn.

Last edited by bongo-anders; March 2nd, 2013 at 11:52 PM.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 11:49 PM   #387
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C'mon IC4 condition has improved a lot since early hiccups prevented its normal operation
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 12:22 AM   #388
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I have travelled the Copenhagen-Flensburg IC train last summer. It was very slow and stopped at all small stations like Vojens, Rödekro, Tinglev. This international train felt more like a local commuter train. I think Roskilde, Odense and Kolding would be enough stops.

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Old March 3rd, 2013, 02:04 AM   #389
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C'mon IC4 condition has improved a lot since early hiccups prevented its normal operation
The resident AnsaldoBreda-troll strikes again!
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 09:34 AM   #390
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So why did one break down at Horsens station yesterday, my only concern is if they can sell the train to some third world country without electricification or if they have to scrap it.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 10:02 AM   #391
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As of 2021, what shall be the trip times Copenhagen-Hamburg via Flensburg and Fehmarn respectively?
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 10:27 AM   #392
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Are the IC4 already approved for operation in multiple? If not, would it be possible to couple them permanently as 4+4 car trains to avoid some electrical/informatics problems?

(I don't mean removing one cab per set replacing it with a cross passage, but coupling two sets until they will be scrapped)
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 10:30 AM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I have travelled the Copenhagen-Flensburg IC train last summer. It was very slow and stopped at all small stations like Vojens, Rödekro, Tinglev. This international train felt more like a local commuter train. I think Roskilde, Odense and Kolding would be enough stops.
This "one hour plan" would make running trains with less stops more practical. It would make the implementation of a very efficient and hierarchical timetable possible, with hubs at the main cities. If local and IC trains are welll coordinated it is possible to reduce the number of IC stops.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 10:32 AM   #394
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So why did one break down at Horsens station yesterday, my only concern is if they can sell the train to some third world country without electricification or if they have to scrap it.
They can sell it to Lybia. One is already there....
OTOH, Italy, and italian products are probably not that popular there right now.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 01:59 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Thanks for the update. Sounds very impressive! This thread started some years ago with discussion about Denmark possibly having the worst railway system in Western Europe. I don't think it's true now and certainly won't be then all these improvements are realized.
he situation a few years was this, for about 100 years there has been very little investments in the Danish railways. The rails, the paths, the signal systems were the same as always. Add to this 30 years with basically no maintenance. Therefore a few years the Danish railways were very bad shape, and network actually collapsed with severe speed restrictions on large part of the main network.

This made the politicians wake up. First major investments for overdue maintenance. This has been going on for a few years now, and are still going on. Second, a much needed strategy for the antiquated signal systems was made, a full change of all signals. A decision on a new high speed track from Copenhagen to Ringsted was decided after 15 years of discussion. A decision to get a tunnel to Germany was decided. Now major update to get the 'hour' model as well as electrification.

Despite all these resent investments, in 2025 the Danish rail road system will be similar to the railway system in Germany in 1980 or in Sweden in the 1990.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 03:49 PM   #396
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What do you base that claims on, Denmark will never get any 300 km/h if its that your meaning.

A few 250 km/h lines and the rest of the mainline at 200 km/h hour and 160 km/h north of Hobro looks very good to me.

And name one country that has plans of use ERTMS level 2 signals on all lines and not just high speed lines, I think that Norway are working on it but else I can't find others.


If we took a trip from Denmarks 2 largest cities in the near future it looks like this.

Copenhagen - Ringsted 250 km/h
Ringsted - Odense 200 km/h
Odense - Middelfart 250 km/h
Middelfart - Hovedgård 200+ km/h (including a bypass of Vejle)
Hovedgård - Aarhus 250 km/h

That is way better than Sweden In 1990.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 05:00 PM   #397
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Denmark's railways can be much better, I don't know why the reason the railway lines are almost non-electrified, apart from the S-Tog in Copenhagen.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 05:07 PM   #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chornedsnorkack View Post
As of 2021, what shall be the trip times Copenhagen-Hamburg via Flensburg and Fehmarn respectively?
I'm also think about that. With the Fehmarn connection will the nighttrains from Copenhagen to Amsterdam/Basel/Prague run through Puttgarden instead of Flensburg? What about the freight trains to Continental Europe will they run through Puttgarden, can the old Storström bridge handle that ?
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 05:41 PM   #399
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Despite all these resent investments, in 2025 the Danish rail road system will be similar to the railway system in Germany in 1980 or in Sweden in the 1990.
What exactly is it that would still be so much better in Sweden or Germany after all these upgrades? I'm quite familiar with the German railway system (mostly in the South). It's a good one, but nothing particularly amazing about it.
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 05:43 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by NordikNerd View Post
I'm also think about that. With the Fehmarn connection will the nighttrains from Copenhagen to Amsterdam/Basel/Prague run through Puttgarden instead of Flensburg? What about the freight trains to Continental Europe will they run through Puttgarden, can the old Storström bridge handle that ?
Wasn't it just announced that a new bridge would be built and the old one demolished? It would make sense for pretty much any traffic not originating in or going to Jutland penninsula running through Puttgarden.
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