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Old September 25th, 2013, 02:19 PM   #481
hans280
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Maybe all the Danes have moved to Copenhagen so there is no need for trains on the peninsula anymore?
Not quite, Sunfuns, but the concentration in Denmark is quite extreme: more than a fourth of the population of our small country live in the capital. In, say, Germany this would correspond to almost 25 million inhabitants in Berlin. For this reason the Danish railways are approaching a concept not unlike the mono-centrism of France (I admit that this sounds silly considering that Copenhagen is located on the eastern edge of the country): let the trains rush out of the "centre" and then, after a couple of hundred kilometers, start dripping passengers off in assorted provincial towns.
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Old September 28th, 2013, 01:39 PM   #482
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Here are a couple of diagrams to show how the "One hour plan" will work.
The section between Odense and Aarhus is the most difficult section to get the journey time down to one hour.
Because of the twisty nature of the line and the crossing from Funen to Jutland (Little Belt bridge) and the trip along both sides of Vejle Fjord, a lot of new construction is necessary.

The main parts are a section of new line on Funen following the motorway, a new bridge over the Vejle Fjord and a straight section of new line south of Aarhus, bypassing Skanderborg (red on the map) and some opgrading of the existing line (yellow on the map).
This all results in a journey time of 55 minutes.
The diagram shows time saved and the Price in DKr.


[IMG]http://i40.************/22gpww.jpg[/IMG]
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:01 AM   #483
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The yellow bits seem to almost do nothing in terms of time saved, so I'm guessing those upgrades are ment more to bring them up to modern standards and increase capacity/safety rather than speed?
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:13 AM   #484
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Nah, it's pure political, as a conventional railway upgraded to 200 kmph can be called a high-speed railway. Thereby it sends a signal to potential passengers as well as the surrounding world to upgrade these lines although the travel time benefits are tiny.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:37 AM   #485
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Overall benefit of the program is huge, though. More than an hour on the entire route between Copenhagen and Aalborg if I understood correctly.

All these lines will be electrified, but will it be only these new alignments or the old one which will presumably be used for local traffic (through Vejle and Skanderborg) as well?
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Old September 30th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #486
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Denmark has now recieved it´s last IC4 train set (out of 82) except the one which Berlesconi gave to Gadaffi, and IC2 set out of 23 from Ansaldobreda.
They now occupy approx. 7½ km. of track at different locations around the country, here at the Copenhagen Airport depot.

If you have being following the electrification plans for the Danish Network in the posts above you will realize that there is not going to be much use for them in the future.


[IMG]http://i44.************/2yy6qyw.jpg[/IMG]

Last edited by Never give up; September 30th, 2013 at 08:40 PM.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 04:47 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
Overall benefit of the program is huge, though. More than an hour on the entire route between Copenhagen and Aalborg if I understood correctly.

All these lines will be electrified, but will it be only these new alignments or the old one which will presumably be used for local traffic (through Vejle and Skanderborg) as well?
Copenhagen to Aalborg will go from almost 4,5 jours to 3 hours, so its a huge time saving but I still think that the airlines will have a significant share of this route.

Smaller airports like Tirstrup (Aarhus and Randers) Karup (Viborg, Skive, Struer and Herning) Billund (Esbjerg, Kolding, Silkeborg, Horsens, Vejle and Fredericia) and Sønderborg will have to close/or limit their departures to Copenhagen Airport.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 06:33 PM   #488
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Copenhagen to Aalborg will go from almost 4,5 jours to 3 hours, so its a huge time saving but I still think that the airlines will have a significant share of this route.
Probably - because it's very easy to get from Kastrup Airport to the center of Copenhagen. I mentioned in an earlier posting that 3 hours is often the magic limit, but that of course reflects the fact that in cities like Paris, Rome or Tokyo getting to the airport during rush hours is a pure nightmare. Hardly surprising that the well-heeled tourists and business people there prefer to take a train from downtown.

I like "Never Give Up's" maps (thanks!). You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce that the next phase they have in mind is a replacement of the old Lillebaelt Bridge. I read somewhere that railway bridges have an average lifespan of just over 100 years. That one was built in the 1930s, so some planning will soon have to get underway. Also, it looks like the one part of the route where almost no track upgrades are currently planned is around Fredericia? Not unlikely that they'll planning to create a smooth bypass around this (smallish) provincial town once they have a new bridge.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 08:37 PM   #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Never give up View Post
Denmark has now recieved it´s last IC4 train set (out of 82) except the one which Berlesconi gave to Gadaffi, and IC2 set out of 23 from Ansaldobreda.
They now occupy approx. 7½ km. of track at different locations around the country, here at the Copenhagen Airport depot.

If you have being following the electrification plans for the Danish Network in the posts above you will realize that there is not going to be much use for them in the future.
Any possibility to sell them or are they so crappy that no one is likely to want them? Also it will be 8-10 years till the completion of electrification...
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Old September 30th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Probably - because it's very easy to get from Kastrup Airport to the center of Copenhagen. I mentioned in an earlier posting that 3 hours is often the magic limit, but that of course reflects the fact that in cities like Paris, Rome or Tokyo getting to the airport during rush hours is a pure nightmare. Hardly surprising that the well-heeled tourists and business people there prefer to take a train from downtown.

I like "Never Give Up's" maps (thanks!). You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce that the next phase they have in mind is a replacement of the old Lillebaelt Bridge. I read somewhere that railway bridges have an average lifespan of just over 100 years. That one was built in the 1930s, so some planning will soon have to get underway. Also, it looks like the one part of the route where almost no track upgrades are currently planned is around Fredericia? Not unlikely that they'll planning to create a smooth bypass around this (smallish) provincial town once they have a new bridge.


If you read page 68 in this report the is a small notice about a Lillebælt bridge.


http://www.trm.dk/~/media/Files/Publ...%20final-1.pdf



To sum it up

Option A: A new bridge and a 200 km/h line from Kauslunde (at the end of the new line over Fyn) to Pjedsted north of Fredericia, this line will bypass Fredericia but would create a new park and ride station.

This option costs 6,6 billion DKK (perhaps only the bridge) and the time saved will be around 5 minutes, trains from Sønderborg, Flensburg and Esbjerg will save up to 3 minutes.


A more expensive solution are a 250 km/h line from Kauslunde and up top the new Vejlefjord bridgen avoiding the twisted railwayline through Børkop and Bregning.
this one will save around 8 minutes.

Last edited by bongo-anders; October 1st, 2013 at 09:53 AM.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 07:43 AM   #491
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Originally Posted by bongo-anders View Post
Option A: A new bridge and a 200 km/h line from Kauslunde (at the end of the new line over Fyn) to Pjedsted north of Fredericia, this line will bypass Fredericia but would create a new park and ride station.

This option costs 6,6 billion DKK (perhaps only the bridge) an the time saved will be around 5 minutes, trains from Sønderborg, Flensburg and Esbjerg will save up to 3 minutes.

A more expensive solution are a 250 km/h line from Kauslunde and up top the new Vejlefjord bridgen avoiding the twisted railwayline through Børkop and Bregning. this one will save around 8 minutes.
Ah, but the text is in Danish. Dybt fortvivlende!

Many thanks for drawing my attention to this. I'm surprised that they dare plan for the more "ambitious" option (their words): it totally bypasses Middelfart to the north. It bypasses Fredericia as well, but the difference is that trains would still have the option of turning away from the new line and servicing the railway station in central Fredericia. Conversely, once the old Lillebaelt bridge has been decommissioned Middelfart would be in a cul-de-sac. I'm sure THAT will give rise to some roaring and screaming on western Funen.
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Old October 1st, 2013, 09:51 AM   #492
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I remember that you once told me that you still understand danish, or was the joke just missing my attention.


The citizens of Middelfart and Fredericia will surely be pissed but they are already now in Vejle, image the uproar when they find out that the only station in the triangle area will be Kolding and a parkway station in the outskirts of Fredericia.

Although they will keep their downtown stations for stop services and commuter trains so they will not loose all train, just the intercity trains.
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Old October 2nd, 2013, 02:52 PM   #493
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The citizens of Middelfart and Fredericia will surely be pissed but they are already now in Vejle, image the uproar when they find out that the only station in the triangle area will be Kolding and a parkway station in the outskirts of Fredericia.

Although they will keep their downtown stations for stop services and commuter trains so they will not loose all train, just the intercity trains.
Yes, but there's a material difference: Vejle and Fredericia will be cut off from the (almost-)highspeed line, but they'll still be accessible to ordinary inter-regional through-fare traffic. Conversely, if they tear down the old Lillebaelt Bridge, Middelfart will become a terminus station. I used the French term "cul-de-sac" in my previous posting. In Danish it is "blindgyde".
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Old October 7th, 2013, 03:17 PM   #494
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Middelart and Fredericia will be served by a Park and Ride station in Erritsø between the 2 towns and Vejle will still be served by the slower Lyntog.

I could image that a small station with through tracks for the non stopping trains would be located in the northern part of Middelfart and the old station will probably be used for the local trains to Odense.


BTW the danish name is not Blindgyde but Sækbanegård.
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Old October 7th, 2013, 03:28 PM   #495
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Cowi is choosen as the main contractor of the railway/roadbridge over Storstrømsbroen.

The bridge is vital for the new Fehmarn connection and will allow the trains to pass the strait with 200 km/h and double the numbers of tracks from 1 to 2.

Dissing + Weitling Architecture is going to design the bridge.

Their most famous bridges are the Great Belt Bridge, Qatar-Lusail Bridge, New Forth Crossing, The Øresund Bridge, Stonecutters Bridge in Hong Kong and the Gerald Desmond Bridge in Long Beach, CA.



http://ing.dk/artikel/cowi-skal-proj...oemsbro-162352
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Old October 11th, 2013, 02:08 PM   #496
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So they actually are going to build a new bridge for two train tracks over the whole Storstrommen? The original plans I remember did not include this bridge, right?

That would be good news as it would avoid one of the possible last bottlenecks and speed restricted section in the future.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 03:28 PM   #497
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So they actually are going to build a new bridge for two train tracks over the whole Storstrommen? The original plans I remember did not include this bridge, right?

That would be good news as it would avoid one of the possible last bottlenecks and speed restricted section in the future.
What has happened (as far as I can see) is that they have moved to Plan B. The original grand design was first to make reasonably fast railway lines between Copenhagen and Ringsted, and between Nykoebing and the Fehmarn tunnel. Then, as a second phase, they would connect the two with an extra high-speed track which would follow strictly the motorway between Koege and Nykoebing. The Storestroemmen would have been crossed about 20 km east of Vordingborg and, in terms of moving from Copenhagen toward Germany, this would have been the more direct route.

But of course such a phased approach works only if the existent infrastructure does not break down in the meantime. Well, the old Storestroem Bridge DID break down and now has to be replaced. Warnings abounded. In the 1970s the government was told by their technical experts that the bridge was ageing rapidly and needed replacement. Repairs could prolong the lifespan of the bridge, but only by 10-20 years. The repairs were carried out. Subsequent governments never revisited the issue.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #498
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Where is the bridge going to be built? Just next to the old one? Can the old one still be used or what do you mean with break down?

Edit: Got it, used some Google Translate

Summary: The new bridge is with two train tracks (as mentioned before) and two car lanes. There will also be space for cyclists and pedestrians. It is going to be built in a long curve west of the old bridge, thus allowing 200 km/h for the trains.

Last edited by telemaxx; October 11th, 2013 at 04:52 PM.
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Old October 11th, 2013, 07:07 PM   #499
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Danish Road Agency (Vejdirektoratet) about Storstrømsbroen
(in Danish);
http://www.vejdirektoratet.dk/DA/vej...r/default.aspx
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Old October 12th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #500
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Quote:
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Where is the bridge going to be built? Just next to the old one? Can the old one still be used or what do you mean with break down?

Summary: The new bridge is with two train tracks (as mentioned before) and two car lanes. There will also be space for cyclists and pedestrians. It is going to be built in a long curve west of the old bridge, thus allowing 200 km/h for the trains.

Break = demolish, as it soon will be structurally too weak to support long freight trains, it is single track and therefor doesn't have sufficient capacity for the international link and has speed restrictions.
To illustrate your description here is a rendering, with line of the old bridge dotted in red.


[IMG]http://i44.************/3013m7l.jpg[/IMG]
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