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Old October 13th, 2013, 08:26 PM   #501
bongo-anders
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
What has happened (as far as I can see) is that they have moved to Plan B. The original grand design was first to make reasonably fast railway lines between Copenhagen and Ringsted, and between Nykoebing and the Fehmarn tunnel. Then, as a second phase, they would connect the two with an extra high-speed track which would follow strictly the motorway between Koege and Nykoebing. The Storestroemmen would have been crossed about 20 km east of Vordingborg and, in terms of moving from Copenhagen toward Germany, this would have been the more direct route.

But of course such a phased approach works only if the existent infrastructure does not break down in the meantime. Well, the old Storestroem Bridge DID break down and now has to be replaced. Warnings abounded. In the 1970s the government was told by their technical experts that the bridge was ageing rapidly and needed replacement. Repairs could prolong the lifespan of the bridge, but only by 10-20 years. The repairs were carried out. Subsequent governments never revisited the issue.

The direct line has never been properly investigated so using your terms we have gone from plan B (160 km/ line and no new bridge) to plan A (200 km/h and a new bridge) so its not that bad.



A direct line from Køge Nord via the Køge bypass to Vordingborg (and Nykøbing F bypass) is still a possibility by using this bridge but its probably many many years out in the future.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 09:25 PM   #502
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The plan for upgrading the Great Belt fixed link to 200 km/h is bigger task that one would think.









http://ing.dk/artikel/timemodel-krae...ampaign=daglig






I will try to translate the red boxes.



Sporskifter: Change the Wooden sleepers under the switches to ones made of concrete.

Portalbygningerne: Change the design of the tunnel portals so the blast from the Shockwave will not be so big.

Tunnellens Udstyr: Safety doors and ventilation systems should be ready to handle the greater speed but they are gonna be tested.

Broer: Some roadbridges has to low a clearance for the greatyer speed so they are gonna be replaced.

+ some minor adjustment like light and signaling.
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Old October 13th, 2013, 09:59 PM   #503
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I forgot to add that top speed will be upgrade from 140 to 200 km/h and traveltime reduced from 13 to 5 minutes.
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Old October 15th, 2013, 07:20 AM   #504
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Quote:
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I forgot to add that top speed will be upgrade from 140 to 200 km/h and traveltime reduced from 13 to 5 minutes.
Anders, I have two questions:

1) Do we know what else is at stake here then raising the cruising speed? I'm asking because there's no way increasing Vmax from 140 to 200 km/h on a limited stretch of 13 km can reduce the travel time by that much. My guess is (?) that they have built into current time schedules a signficiant waiting time before/after the portals to let slower trains pass, which can be eliminated in the new operating design.

2) Why is this Storebaelt upgrade necessary for the realisation of the "Hour Plan" (Danish = Timeplanen)? I was under the impression that the new line Copenhagen-Ringsted would cut 20 minutes off current travel times? That alone seems enough to reduce the travel time from Copenhagen to Odense to 1 hour.
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Old October 17th, 2013, 12:55 PM   #505
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@hans280: Do you mean the new Storstrøm bridge in 2)? Or is there another project called Storebaelt?
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Old October 17th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #506
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in spain we have for some regional services a train based on the danish ic3 model but made by caf




source wikipedia
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Old October 17th, 2013, 03:34 PM   #507
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Quote:
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@hans280: Do you mean the new Storstrøm bridge in 2)? Or is there another project called Storebaelt?
Storstroem is different from Storebaelt. Storebaelt is the name of the main existent east-west connection (road and rail) in Denmark. I wouldn't call it a "project" because it was constructed almost two decades ago. That said, according to bongo-anders' information they need to upgrade it considerably to accommodate 200 km/h rail traffic. This sounds credible, but I have a problem with to time savings he proposes.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #508
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The entire first leg of the project (Copenhagen to Odense) consists of.

A: the new line between Copenhagen and Ringsted.
B: upgrades and a flyover passing the Sydbanen line at Ringsted station, allowing trains to pass with 200 km/h.
C: general upgrades so the trains can travel with 200 km/h
D: upgrades to the Storebælt fixed link.

Where they get the 5 minutes travel time over Storebælt from I don't know.
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Old October 18th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #509
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My best guess is they have compared a current stopping trains with a future non-stopping train...
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Old October 24th, 2013, 02:42 PM   #510
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Tendering begins on the Femern link between Denmark and Northern Germany.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.php...ml?channel=537
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Old November 8th, 2013, 11:34 AM   #511
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An interesting tecnical article from the Rail Engineer about he roll out of ERTMS in Denmark.

http://www.therailengineer.com/2013/...rtms-roll-out/
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Old November 11th, 2013, 09:21 PM   #512
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[IMG]http://i41.************/m962l0.jpg[/IMG]
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Old November 11th, 2013, 09:59 PM   #513
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All the IC4 should be in Denmark now (except the Libyan one), as most of the IC2. Are they used on IC services out of Copenaghen now?

Is it true that IC3 DMUs and IR4 EMUs can run in multiple? If so, will they be used together between Copenaghen and Middelfart and then split?
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Old November 12th, 2013, 11:08 AM   #514
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Quote:
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All the IC4 should be in Denmark now (except the Libyan one), as most of the IC2. Are they used on IC services out of Copenaghen now?

Is it true that IC3 DMUs and IR4 EMUs can run in multiple? If so, will they be used together between Copenaghen and Middelfart and then split?
The IC4s and IC2s are all in Denmark, but most of them still need upgrades before being able to do revenue service. Even with upgrades they still have a really bad reliability, around 5000 kms between breakdowns for the IC4. But they have a few trains running.

The IC3 and IR4 can indeed run together - and they do so every day! Trains to Jutland from Copenhagen often have an IR4 as reinforcement that is uncoupled in Odense or Frederecia. The it's coupled on to a train returning to Copenhagen. Also, the trains running to Esbjerg and Søndergorg run together until Kolding (or Lunderskov, I can't remember), then the IC3 and IR4 are uncoupled and continue to their own destinations.
Every day, each day, the only MU's in the world that do that in revenue service!
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Old November 12th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #515
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[QUOTE=
The IC3 and IR4 can indeed run together - and they do so every day! Every day, each day, the only MU's in the world that do that in revenue service![/QUOTE]

Hardly anyone is aware of this, the reason being that it worked from the beginning and is very reliable.
No scandals = no press publicity.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #516
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Hardly anyone is aware of this, the reason being that it worked from the beginning and is very reliable.
No scandals = no press publicity.
Well, now, I think you're seeing the past through the rosy glasses of nostalgia. I'm old enough to remember the first year of the IC3's revenue service and there were numerous teething problems. The press had a field day, cataloging on an ongoing basis all the elements of the new train that ALSO did not work, and hammering away at DSB and the government.

I don't remember whether this specifically related to the inter-operations of IC3-IR4 and to some extent that's beside the point. The Danish press always cries foul if a public infrastructure project does not work perfectly from day one - and it does so at the top of its voice. Another example was the early days of the automatic metro in Copenhagen, when the newspapers were also baying for blood. The difference, of course, is that the IC3 and the metro were brought in working order within 12-15 months' time. The IC4 debacle has now lasted for 10 years.
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Old November 18th, 2013, 11:11 PM   #517
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I don't remember whether this specifically related to the inter-operations of IC3-IR4
Of course there have been lots of scandals concerning almost all new trains introduced in Denmark during the last many years, but my point is that the interoperability of the IC3 and IR4 trains was the one spectacular thing, which passed by completely unnoticed by the popular press, because as I said, it worked without problems from day one.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 09:05 PM   #518
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The final negotiations of the togfond.dk is in its final hours if the press is to be trusted.


From the look of it, then it seems like 2 branch lines are going to be constructed.


The first one is from Jelling to Billund Airport and Billund (close to the Legoland entrance)

http://www.trm.dk/~/media/Files/Publ...%20Billund.pdf



The next one is a more direct route from Aarhus to Silkeborg via Galten and Låsby, this one is probably going to be a part of the Aarhus light rail.


http://www.trm.dk/~/media/Files/Publ...feb%202012.pdf
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Old January 14th, 2014, 08:44 PM   #519
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The deal is finally made and 28,5 billion DKK is going to be invested in the rail infrastructure.


A short´ish summary of the investments.


Electricification of all main railway lines.

Fredericia – Aalborg 2021-2023
Aalborg – Frederikshavn 2023-2025
Vejle – Struer 2024-2026
Roskilde – Kalundborg 2022-2024

Already decided lines.
Lunderskov - Esbjerg 2015
Copenhagen - Ringsted high speed line 2018
Køge Nord - Næstved 2018
Ringsted - Fehmarn Tunnel 2021

Speed upgrades and/or new high speed lines

New high speed line at Vestfyn costing 4,9 billion DKK.
New bridge over Vejle Fjord costing 4,3 billion DKK
New high speed line Hovedgård – Aarhus costing 3,4 billion DKK (money only reserved to after 2024)
Upgrades to current lines Fredericia – Vejle, Vejle – Horsens – Hovedgård and around Aarhus Central Station to 1,0 billion DKK.
Upgrade Aarhus – Hobro to 0,9 billion DKK.
Fund to upgrades to platforms etc. costing 0,3 billion DKK

Already decided are the high speed line between Copenhagen and Ringsted (under construction) and upgrades to to the current Ringsted Odense line.


1,24 billion DKK is going to be invested in speed upgrades on the branch lines.

Aalborg – Frederikshavn
Struer – Thisted
Langå – Struer
Østerport – Helsingør
Vejle – Struer
Esbjerg – Struer
Skanderborg – Skjern
Bramming – Tønder
Holbæk-Kalundborg
Køge Nord – Næstved
Tinglev – Sønderborg

750 million DKK is going to be invested in a new branch line from Jelling to Billund.

Over 500 million DKK is going to a flyover and new platforms at Ny Ellebjerg south of central Copenhagen to make this station a new hub.

Like the Hovedgård - Aarhus high speed line a new branch line between Aarhus and Silkeborg will be decided in 2024.

The line will cost 2,6 billion DKK but for now only 4 million DKK will be used for a study.


Many more things like freight transport etc is found on this link, its only in Danish but Google translate will probably help.

http://www.trm.dk/da/publikationer/2...le+om+togfond/
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Old January 14th, 2014, 09:42 PM   #520
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As far as I know there are plans to add new platforms for Copenhagen Central station. Which of the options for adding additional tracks - over or underground is more favorable? In my opinion - underground is best option
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