daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Default
. 0 0%
. 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 7th, 2007, 05:56 PM   #41
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20331

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNU View Post
Yes, but if theyd kept a privateised system then we would still see no investments
The train companies are still privatised, that part of the privatisation seems to be working pretty well.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 7th, 2007, 06:19 PM   #42
Wallaroo
Registered User
 
Wallaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 126
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad View Post
Yes, I've always wondered how a country like Denmark can have such a bad railway network.
Poor, ineffective and irresponsible management is the answer to that.
Quote:
I'm pretty satisfied with the Swedish raillines.
I know for a fact that the Swedish raliway system is much much better than the Danish one. Especially the tracks seems to be a lot better and more comfortable than in Denmark, and the trains drives much faster too.
Quote:
hmm.. not much?

I think this is more than enough for a geographically large country with a population of 5million:
(green = passenger&-freight-traffic)

and as far as i recall that map is even outdated.

the length of the finnish railway network is 5,740 kilometer. 2,620 kilometer of that is electrified.
Thats quite impressive for a country with a population smaller than Denmark.

They even have 220 kp/h tilting trains on the Finnish network.


Last edited by Wallaroo; August 7th, 2007 at 06:34 PM.
Wallaroo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 06:31 PM   #43
xote
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,198
Likes (Received): 5

Ireland by far has the worst railway system in Western Europe. Which is sad considering how much funds they get from the EU and how extremely wealthy it is already.

It could also be due to the fact that Dublin has such a large weight in the country, and the rest of it is poorly populated. But, then at least one would expect suburban Dublin services would be good, but, from what I have seen, they are horrifically bad as well.

Denmark's system seems OK, about average for Europe.
xote no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #44
GNU
Gnuru
 
GNU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Brave GNU World
Posts: 2,749
Likes (Received): 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
The train companies are still privatised, that part of the privatisation seems to be working pretty well.
Keeping the infrastructure in shape is mostly the problem with privatisation.
Well have a similar problem in Germany soon.
Unfortunatley the Deutsche Bahn will soon get privatised, yet the german state will contiunue to pour as much money into the system as it is doing now.
Therefore the privatisation will not benefit the public but rather a few people who will make a lot of money out of it.
GNU no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 07:33 PM   #45
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,821
Likes (Received): 1823

^Estonian Railways was privatized some years ago, but last year it was nationalised again. During the time it was under private owners, absolutely no infrastructure works were done, as much as I know. Now, railways are again being repaired.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 07:57 PM   #46
GNU
Gnuru
 
GNU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Brave GNU World
Posts: 2,749
Likes (Received): 35

yes Ive heard about that. Its typical really. A private company is trying to keep its money together and spend as little as possible.
Competition also doesnt really work in that case.
What troubles me in Germany is that the Bahn that has been built up with the money of the taxpayer is being privatised. Thats our money afterall that is being given away to investors.
GNU no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 07:57 PM   #47
sweek
Registered User
 
sweek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London NW1
Posts: 1,636
Likes (Received): 1

The whole of Europe is going to have privatised railways according to EU legislation. We just need to make sure we get it right when we do that.
In case of the Dutch railways it's also the old infrastructure that is causing the problems, and the lack of investment. But it's the infrastructure bit that's still nationalised and owned by the state... so state control doesn't always work either.
sweek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 07:58 PM   #48
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,821
Likes (Received): 1823

^Private companies don't want to make big investments, even if it would pay off later, because big investments are always risky.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 08:05 PM   #49
DiggerD21
spaghetti polonaise
 
DiggerD21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hamburg, Wroclaw
Posts: 2,540
Likes (Received): 1356

The current rail infrastructure should be/ remain nationalised. Train operating can be privatised IMO.
DiggerD21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 08:09 PM   #50
GNU
Gnuru
 
GNU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Brave GNU World
Posts: 2,749
Likes (Received): 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
The whole of Europe is going to have privatised railways according to EU legislation.
I think the EU is trying to implement national rail competition in Europe.
That doesnt mean that everything has to be privatised.
France has the ownership model for example to fulfill the EU demands.
The SNCF is still 100 percent public property though and is not privatised.

Last edited by GNU; August 7th, 2007 at 08:23 PM.
GNU no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 09:21 PM   #51
marrio415
Registered User
 
marrio415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Mansfield and Oxford UK
Posts: 837
Likes (Received): 22

Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
Actually I lived in the UK for 4 years and hold a British passport. So before you start mouthing off with some self flagulation posing as extreme nationalist sentiment, I suggest you turn around and sit facing the corner.

The British rail system is ok, but pales in comparison to DK and most of Europe.

PS. Learn how to use grammar.
Good for you please come back.
your a funny guy.and i'm not a extreme nationalist either am just a bit passionate about my country other people should be the same.can i ask when you were last in the uk

the only reason why the uk rail network was not working well was due to railtrack thats the company that maintained the railways here in the uk well they went bankrupt and network rail took over they do have some flaws but they are improving and it's showing on our railways and companies are doing better(first great western aside) due to the fact the goverment are setting stricter targets and getting real tough on under perfoming rail companies as connex found out,my god they were bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GNU View Post
Keeping the infrastructure in shape is mostly the problem with privatisation.
Well have a similar problem in Germany soon.
Unfortunatley the Deutsche Bahn will soon get privatised, yet the german state will contiunue to pour as much money into the system as it is doing now.
Therefore the privatisation will not benefit the public but rather a few people who will make a lot of money out of it.
I believe(not 100%) that network rail that now maintain our railways is now goverment owned
marrio415 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 09:30 PM   #52
sweek
Registered User
 
sweek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London NW1
Posts: 1,636
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
^Private companies don't want to make big investments, even if it would pay off later, because big investments are always risky.
EHm... that's not true at all. GNER in the UK for example, wants to invest in upgrading the East Coast Mainline, but it's the government that does not accept this. As long as you give franchises for a sufficient number of years to make investments worthwhile, private companies can profit from this too.
And Serco, the company running the DLR in London, is also financing their extensions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNU View Post
I think the EU is trying to implement national rail competition in Europe.
That doesnt mean that everything has to be privatised.
France has the ownership model for example to fulfill the EU demands.
The SNCF is still 100 percent public property though and is not privatised.
An example news article:

European Union determined to force through more railway reform - Conference Report

The European Union has defiantly declared that Europe's railways must msove more rapidly towards open access and interoperability. This was the main theme of the seventh annual conference organised by the Adam Smith Institute, held last month in Paris.

BATTLE lines are now being drawn between European Union (EU) legislators and Europe's traditionally conservative and insular railways in the wake of the latest plans put forward by the European Commission (EC), which says it is determined to transform the EU's disparate national rail networks into a powerful and efficient single market.

...

The fundamental differences in operational and commercial outlook between Europe's transport policy-makers and the railways were exposed once again during the Adam Smith Institute's conference, entitled The Future of European Rail, which attracted an impressive array of top-level speakers. It was a familiar scene as railway managers, arguably hiding behind too many years of comfortable state monopoly ownership, continued to defend their failure over the past decade to embrace the EU's proposals for open access and to adopt genuinely competitive practices.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._85368134/pg_2

We might not be there yet, but this is the direction that the EU is going into and even countries like France that will be very resentful against this, will have to accept I think.
sweek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #53
sweek
Registered User
 
sweek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London NW1
Posts: 1,636
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
^Private companies don't want to make big investments, even if it would pay off later, because big investments are always risky.
EHm... that's not true at all. GNER in the UK for example, wants to invest in upgrading the East Coast Mainline, but it's the government that does not accept this. As long as you give franchises for a sufficient number of years to make investments worthwhile, private companies can profit from this too.
And Serco, the company running the DLR in London, is also financing their extensions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GNU View Post
I think the EU is trying to implement national rail competition in Europe.
That doesnt mean that everything has to be privatised.
France has the ownership model for example to fulfill the EU demands.
The SNCF is still 100 percent public property though and is not privatised.
You're right, but the EU sure seems to be pushing into that direction.

Some news articles:

European Union determined to force through more railway reform - Conference Report

The European Union has defiantly declared that Europe's railways must msove more rapidly towards open access and interoperability. This was the main theme of the seventh annual conference organised by the Adam Smith Institute, held last month in Paris.

BATTLE lines are now being drawn between European Union (EU) legislators and Europe's traditionally conservative and insular railways in the wake of the latest plans put forward by the European Commission (EC), which says it is determined to transform the EU's disparate national rail networks into a powerful and efficient single market.
...
The fundamental differences in operational and commercial outlook between Europe's transport policy-makers and the railways were exposed once again during the Adam Smith Institute's conference, entitled The Future of European Rail, which attracted an impressive array of top-level speakers. It was a familiar scene as railway managers, arguably hiding behind too many years of comfortable state monopoly ownership, continued to defend their failure over the past decade to embrace the EU's proposals for open access and to adopt genuinely competitive practices.

We might not be there yet, but this is the direction that the EU is going into and even countries like France that will be very resentful against this, will have to accept I think.
sweek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 10:51 PM   #54
Jiangwho
Registered User
 
Jiangwho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 802
Likes (Received): 58

DSB interior.......Oh yes this is second class

photo by gg0850
__________________
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Last edited by Jiangwho; August 7th, 2007 at 11:04 PM.
Jiangwho no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 10:54 PM   #55
FREKI
Lord of Legoland
 
FREKI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 10,681
Likes (Received): 6395

^Worst in Europe

( the seats are btw ajustable and the armrests moveable - there's a plane style system with switzerble lights and 220V power outlets in the "ceeling" )

Oh and reservations display on small displayes ( the orange script displays the storeage shelfs in the pic ) so people without reservations know where they can sit and for how long..

ANd ofcause there's a information display with stations, time to arrival and other related information... poor us Danes indeed..

And did I mention the next gen IC4 is operational in parts of the country - can't wait to try it!



It's interior: ( large picture ) http://www.dsb.dk/cs/BlobServer?blob...&ssbinary=true
__________________
Recent FREKI PRESENTS threads:
Denmark - Dubai - The Wild Wild West - Prague - Phuket - Shanghai - Planet Earth

Last edited by FREKI; August 7th, 2007 at 11:03 PM.
FREKI no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 11:02 PM   #56
Wallaroo
Registered User
 
Wallaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 126
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by VVVV View Post
DSB interior.......Oh yes this is second class
Those seats are wider than ordinary second class seats, which is possible since the IC3 trains are wider than other trains. However, they are too ******* hard to sit on, and one feels like getting his ass removed after a couple of hours in them.

Last edited by Wallaroo; August 7th, 2007 at 11:09 PM.
Wallaroo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 11:06 PM   #57
FREKI
Lord of Legoland
 
FREKI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 10,681
Likes (Received): 6395

^hard to sit on... hmm.. I quite like them ( and they ARE second class! )... but I do hate the seat that are facing eachother as that usually means you have to share legroom with some stranger.. ( why I normally reserve a seat in a "quiet wagon" where all seats face the same direction and screaming kids and people on cell phones are not allowed... ahhh peace!
__________________
Recent FREKI PRESENTS threads:
Denmark - Dubai - The Wild Wild West - Prague - Phuket - Shanghai - Planet Earth
FREKI no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 11:07 PM   #58
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,631
Likes (Received): 19426

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
^Estonian Railways was privatized some years ago, but last year it was nationalised again. During the time it was under private owners, absolutely no infrastructure works were done, as much as I know. Now, railways are again being repaired.
The problem with privatization is, that the deal goes for those who give the lowest offers. Lowest isn't always the best, because of the lack of investments.

Privatization shouldn't be a problem, but the offers are to cheap. Kind of an Aldi-offer, you get what you pay for. A good network costs money. Operating a rail system is one thing, but you need investments/maintenance too.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2007, 11:16 PM   #59
TohrAlkimista
Registered User
 
TohrAlkimista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Milano
Posts: 13,227
Likes (Received): 921

Privatization of the National Railways is a priority for EU.

The idea is that the maintenance of the railways is an enourmous cost for each country.
Each national system, from the worst to the best one, is not profitable and every year national funds have to adjust railways companies accounts.
So EU push single countries to privatize this sector.



Coming in-topic back, I'd say that assuming as "the worst railways system" the danish one, it's a SHAME!!!
The network is not big, but it's ok for what the country needs. The conformation of the country and the distribution of the population don't help.

The service is ok.


There are reaaaally much worse national systems in Europe, both for the network and the service.
__________________
TohrFlickr
||| ||| |||
36 Hours in Milan
TohrAlkimista no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #60
GNU
Gnuru
 
GNU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Brave GNU World
Posts: 2,749
Likes (Received): 35

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
We might not be there yet, but this is the direction that the EU is going into and even countries like France that will be very resentful against this, will have to accept I think.

Theyve met EU demands of opening the market to competitors.
There are 2 organizations, the SNCF (operating the trains) and the Réseau Ferré de France which owns the tracks and the other infrastructure since 1997 when it was founded.
Both are 100 percent state owned.
This happened in order to open the market to independent train operating companies.
However few have yet appeared.

From Wiki:

Quote:
Réseau Ferré de France, RFF, is the company that owns and maintains the French national railway network. The trains themselves are operated by SNCF, the national railway company, but due to new European Union rules, the French government was required to divide the operations from the infrastructure.

Last edited by GNU; August 8th, 2007 at 12:45 AM.
GNU no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
denmark, trains

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium