daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


View Poll Results: Default
. 0 0%
. 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 4th, 2017, 12:37 AM   #1061
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

Travel time between Copenhagen and Nykøbing F will go down from around 1,5 hour to 1 hour so there we get the first 30 minutes.

The ferry crossing takes 45 minutes but with stops at both Rødby Færge and Puttgarden and loading and offloading it takes 1 hour and 7 minutes to do the crossing.

In the tunnel it takes 10 minutes so around 57 minutes is saved there.

So there its already 1 hour and 27 minutes shorter travel time.

The part from Nykøbing F to Rødby Færge takes 21 minutes today but with double track and 200 km/h speed limit instead of 120 then the travel time will probably be around 14 minutes so another 7 minutes is cut from the travel time.

So just from Copenhagen to Puttgarden its 1 hour and 34 minutes shorter.

So that brings us down from 4:45 to 3:11.


Travel time from Puttgarden to Hamburg is 1 hour and 40 minutes.
Hamburg Lübeck will remain at 160 km/h but as noted there will be some capacity Improvements.

A new line from Lübeck to the fehmarnsund bridge will be build, originally it was 160 km/h but according to Telemaxx post its now a more logical 200 km/h.

If we assume that a new Fehmarnsund bridge and the railroad on Fehmarn will be upgraded to 200 km/h then my best guess id that the travel time from Puttgarden to Lübeck will go down from 55 minutes to around 30 minutes.

That will make the total travel time around 2:46 and that is reasonable if you ask me.


The only things that (according to me) can reduce the travel time further would be.....
High speed line from Køge Nord to Vordingborg probably cutting a further 10-15 minutes compared to the upgraded line from Ringsted.

Bypass of Nykøbing F with or without a new station on Lolland probably getting 5-8 minutes more.

A new line into Hamburg (very expensive) probably also getting 10-15 minutes.

So around 25 to 38 minutes shorter but at what cost?

In the real world the travel time will be around 2:45 but probably closer to 3 hours and with my fantasy project then 2:10-2:20.
__________________

jonasry liked this post
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 6th, 2017, 01:46 PM   #1062
ulca01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Nakskov
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 0

A bypass of Nykøbing F. would, in my opinion, be a bad idea.
Why? Quite simply because Nykøbing F., or at least it's station, is a central hub for public transportation; both the private railway line to Nakskov and most of Lolland, and several busses to most of Falster and eastern Lolland.
So bypassing Nykøbing F. would "rob" these areas of a fast and decent connection to both Copenhagen and other places; as it is today Nykøbing F. is served by regional trains stopping at every station between Nykøbing and Ringsted plus Roskilde and Høje Taastrup, as well as "fast" regional trains which stops only at Vordingborg - Næstved and Høje Taastrup. And a number at EC trains as well, which stops at the same stations as the "fast" regional trains; in fact some of the EC trains has an extra train-set (IC3 or ICE-TD, though the latter has been taken out of service) coupled to it between Copenhagen and Nykøbing F, (and the other way as well).

What the line between Lübeck and Hamburg concerns, I for one hope that they will improve the line and make it possible to run at 180 or 200 km/h (more would be great, but how likely is it?).

Also, I can't help thinking, how fast trains can run on the line from Lübeck to Büchen (a junction on the line between Hamburg and Berlin, and former border station until Germany was re-united), but I guessing 160 km/h since it (the line) only seems to be served by regional trains. According to few sources, the ICE trains between Hamburg and Berlin run at (up to) 230 km/h. So how long would it take for a train travelling Copenhagen - Lübeck - Büchen - Berlin, if between Copenhagen and Ringsted the speed could be (up to) 250 km/t, between Ringsted and Lübeck 200 km/h, Lübeck - Büchen 160 km/h (or if upgraded, perhaps 180 - 200 km/h) and (up to) 230 km/h the rest of the way.
I do realise, that it is possible to fly from Copenhagen to Berlin in perhaps 1 - 1,50 hours, but with airport security, demands to check-in some time before departure, I can't help thinking that it might be something like 1,50 - 2 hours plus the time to get to the airport. And how often do planes fly from Copenhagen to Berlin?
And if you don't live near Copenhagen but perhaps needs to travel 1 or 2 hours, would it then be possible to get to Berlin faster by taking a (high speed) train? Today this journey could be accomplished by taking an EC train to Hamburg and from there an ICE to Berlin, or taking an EC train to Lübeck and switching to some other train to Berlin.
ulca01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2017, 04:26 PM   #1063
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

3 h or a little bit below between two major cities about 340 km apart is right in the sweet spot for rail to be a dominant mode of transport. Air is probably totally out of the picture (aside of connecting flights), bus only for the cheapest end and car for those who must have it on the other end for some reason.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2017, 04:34 PM   #1064
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

By the way is Copenhagen station located in such a way that easy through train from Gothenborg and Malmo to Hamburg will be possible? There would probably be demand for that too.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 6th, 2017, 08:08 PM   #1065
ulca01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Nakskov
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
By the way is Copenhagen station located in such a way that easy through train from Gothenborg and Malmo to Hamburg will be possible? There would probably be demand for that too.
No, unfortunately not. From the time the first railway lines in Denmark was established, all railway traffic to Sweden was centered around the ferries between Helsingør and Helsingborg (in the North end of Øresund).
Until the 1960's when the first plans for a fixed connection between Copenhagen and Malmø was presented, the remote trains (regional to other parts of Sjælland and InterCity to other parts of Denmark) was routed either to Helsingør to Sweden or West to Roskilde and the rest of Denmark.

A major reason for why the fixed link across Øresund was placed between Copenhagen (technically Kastrup on the island of Amager) and Malmø was the lack of an international airport near Malmø (which there is near the fixed link's shore connection in Denmark). Also, a surplus of housings and workers in or near Malmø, coupled with a surplus of workplaces in or around Copenhagen, made a fixed link between those cities combined with a regional train system desirable.

There are two basic ways of giving Copenhagen easy access to an international train line:
1. Let the international trains stop at the Copenhagen Central station (hovedbanegården) and reverse direction of travel; since connections to both the before mentioned fixed link and the rest of Denmark is to the South of the station.
2. Let the international trains stop at either the Ørestad station (to the South of Copenhagen, with connections to the Copenhagen Metro) or the Ny Ellebjerg (which has several connections to the S-train system); the latter of which has been suggested as a hub to ease the traffic load at the Central station.
ulca01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2017, 12:03 AM   #1066
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

International through trains could easy bypass the central station if it stopped at the airport that also can connect central Copenhagen with the M2 metro line and Øresund trains.

Ny Ellebjerg would be the second and last stop, here S train lines A, E and F, Regionaltog trains and in a few years time M4 will also create a decent hub.

The only problem is that the flyover they are building west of Ny Ellebjerg is constructed in a way so it will lead trains from Sweden/the airport down the old line (over Roskilde) and trains from the new high speed line into the central station.
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2017, 12:22 AM   #1067
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

For freight trains and high speed trains a bypass of Nykøbing is a great idea.

A Nykøbing L (for Lolland) station will actually make travel time for the commuters of Lollandsbanen shorter when going to Copenhagen.

In my dream world they had constructed a high speed line from Vordingborg to Køge Nord and the Regionstog would have taken over the legacy line from Ringsted to Nykøbing F.

Regionstog would then run 2 lines.
Nakskov, Nykøbing L, Nykøbing F.
Nykøbing L, Nykøbing F, Vordingborg , Ringsted.
A third line to Gedser in timing with the ferry departures would be great but is not part of this scheme.

The Eurocity trains will then run from Copenhagen, Køge Nord, Vordingborg, Nykøbing L and further on to Hamburg twice per hour in the day time and once per hour in the evening and weekends.
And then a few non stop trains per day.
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2017, 10:43 AM   #1068
ulca01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Nakskov
Posts: 9
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo-anders View Post
For freight trains and high speed trains a bypass of Nykøbing is a great idea.
A bypass of a traffic hub like Nykøbing is a bad idea, especially when Nykøbing is regional center for the islands of Lolland and Falster.

Quote:
A Nykøbing L (for Lolland) station will actually make travel time for the commuters of Lollandsbanen shorter when going to Copenhagen.
Maybe, but where would a Nykøbing L. station be placed? In order to be able to service both Lollandsbanen and other trains, such a station would be placed pretty close to the bridge over Guldborgsund (called "Frederik IXs bro" in danish); otherwise it would mean re-routing Lollandsbanen.

But by the way, there are plans to establish a new station south of Holeby, just north of the "Ladhavevej" road bridge over the rail line. This station would consist of two central tracks with platforms on the outside and a track on the outside of these platforms. This would then serve as a hub for bus lines to various parts of Lolland; and the local authorities (Lolland Kommune) has even suggested having parts or all of the former rail line Maribo - Holeby - Rødby re-established like a light rail project, and in my dream world supplemented by a branch line to the new station (some 4 - 4,5 km. from the old line at Holeby) and maybe on the southern part of Rødby.

Quote:
In my dream world they had constructed a high speed line from Vordingborg to Køge Nord and the Regionstog would have taken over the legacy line from Ringsted to Nykøbing F.
Keep dreaming, I doubt such a line will ever be realised. But there has been plans to let regional trains from Nykøbing F. to Copenhagen (and the other way) use the southern part of Lille Syd (Næstved - Køge - Roskilde) by driving Næstved - Køge - Køge Nord - Copenhagen. The northern part of Lille Syd, between Køge and Roskilde, would then be serviced by expanding trains from Østbanen (Køge - Hårlev - Fakse Ladeplads/Rødvig) to Roskilde.

About Regionstog (now technically Lokaltog) servicing the line to Gedser, this has been suggested and offered, but the offer was refused by Banedanmark and others. By the way, a similar suggestion has been made about the line Nykøbing - Rødby Færge, but this was also refused.
ulca01 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2017, 06:00 PM   #1069
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

Why so serious


My station would have been placed north of Toreby.


https://map.krak.dk/m/qvNRa
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2017, 11:31 AM   #1070
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

An Austrian company has wonder the job of building the double track and rebuild the existing track on the Ringsted Femern line but only to Nykøbing F.

The job consist of...
60km of new track.
Renovation of the rest of the tracks.
Replacement or construction of 52 track switch.
100.000 new "sveller" can't remember the english name but the concrete slats that the tracks are placed on.
Rebuild Vordingborg and Orehoved stations in preperation of the Storstrøms Bridge

Construction time is from Spring 2018 to 2021

https://www.building-supply.dk/artic...edfemern_banen

Last edited by bongo-anders; August 8th, 2017 at 11:39 AM.
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2017, 02:56 PM   #1071
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo-anders View Post
100.000 new "sveller" can't remember the english name but the concrete slats that the tracks are placed on.
Sleeper
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2017, 04:17 PM   #1072
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

That's the one somehow I couldn't remember the name.
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2017, 12:16 AM   #1073
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

Work on Køge Nord station.





__________________

8166UY liked this post
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2017, 09:09 PM   #1074
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

Køge Nord station from today.

If you notice the curve in one of the pictures you can see why the speed limit in the Køge curve is 230 km/h instead of 250 km/h.



































__________________

arctic_carlos, 8166UY, Jobber liked this post
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2017, 10:35 PM   #1075
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

I trespassed the Køge Nord construction site today and got these pictures

The first part of the bridge should be lifted up over the S-train line the night between Friday and Saturday So expect some pictures already next weekend.























bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2017, 11:48 PM   #1076
00Zy99
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,980
Likes (Received): 1507

What train is that with the bicycle symbols?
00Zy99 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2017, 11:59 PM   #1077
vigiliant
Registered User
 
vigiliant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sofia/Aalborg
Posts: 221
Likes (Received): 554

It's a Copenhagen suburban S-train (København S-tog). The type is Alstom/Siemens Litra and the bike symbol just indicates that you can place your bike at that particular part of the train car
vigiliant no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2017, 08:53 AM   #1078
AlexNL
Registered User
 
AlexNL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,629
Likes (Received): 537

The line is planned to open next year, if I remember correctly. Has it been decided yet who will run the trains, and what rolling stock will be used?
__________________
We are shaping the future
AlexNL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2017, 11:49 AM   #1079
1993matias
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 54
Likes (Received): 34

The first trains will be from Nivå to Køge Nord twice per hour, extended to Køge when the line is ready for it, then to Næstved. I think there is an official statement somewhere about this
__________________
Kind regards, Matias
Train and tram pictures from around Europe (still only a few, but more will come)
1993matias no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2017, 01:06 AM   #1080
bongo-anders
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Køge
Posts: 5,180
Likes (Received): 3599

What we know so far is that the train will run between (Nivå) - Copenhagen - Køge Nord.
Then its later extended to Køge Nord and finally Næstved.
This is because that the line between Roskilde Køge and Næstved is a test line for the new ERTMS level 2 system.
The northern part between Roskilde and Køge is ready first in the spring of 2019 and that is the reason why they will start with only running to Køge Nord.
Køge Næstved should be ready later in 2019 if I remember correctly.

When the major track works around Ringsted is done in 2019 they will start to send all the other trains over the new railway.

The only trains that will stop at Køge Nord are the 2 hourly trains between Nivå and Næstved, one hourly Express train between Copenhagen and Nykøbing F and then one Intercity train each hour.

So 4 trains each hour and each direction together with 6 S-trains each hour and in each direction.
__________________

1993matias liked this post
bongo-anders no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
denmark, trains

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium