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Old August 20th, 2007, 11:58 AM   #101
Jonesy55
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Britain has the worst trains in Western Europe, expensive, slow and cramped. I blame Thatcher. That bitch.
They are expensive if you don't book in advance but they are not that slow compared to many other places and only peak services around busy cities seem to be cramped, most services are ok. I certainly wouldn't say we had the worst service in WE, surely Ireland has to take that prize.

We do need more capacity at peak times but I think that British people like to exaggerate how bad our services are and how good they are elsewhere because we like to moan about things, it's our national character.
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Old August 21st, 2007, 01:47 AM   #102
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UK trains go everywhere, and i mean everywhere, its such a large network i dont think other countries realise the amount of infrastructure in place especially in and around London.

i was in holland over the weekend and even though its a small country their trains i felt were less modern than UK and less modern with little security and poor customer service!

the one notable thing privatisation has done for the train networks competting on better services. The train i commute from is very modern and such a pleasure falling asleep on the way to work. its a South western train i use from windsor, they come equiped with air conditioning, power points for laptops phones etc....quiet areas, cctv in every carrage, frequent automated updates on stations info etc and a guard on the unsociable hours of the night.

The UK seems to be getting faster and more modern trains and i'm certainly feeling a lot safer than i used to whilst commuting. wait till st. Pancras opens in 3 months with new HSR to france which looks absolutely fantastic and so monumental! I dont care what people say about the UK train network when you see the stunning stations it has
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Old September 10th, 2007, 07:03 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by mlm View Post
Have you ever been on an ICE train?? It's surely atleast as good as the IC3 trains IMO. And as I just wrote in my previous post, those old "bumletog" are actually still in use sometimes...When on them, it feels like they go so slow you could run faster next to the train. I doubt you'll find much worse trains than those on the German lines...
I agree, but I find the ICE trains too confusing on the inside - the interior is much too complicated and should have been made more simple.
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Finally, the IC4 "a bit of a fiasco"? It's a HUGE fiasco. Not one single set is in regular operation yet. I still wonder why on earth they choose AnsaldoBreda, since there was a bunch of known issues with them earlier. It's the same situation in Belgium btw, they're also waiting for a bunch of new sets from AnsaldoBreda, also very much delayed.
Italians are well known for making crappy products all the way from cars to washing machines, due to their low working moral. Ordering trains from Italy is therefore downright stupid unless its a well tested and reliable product already in service. Its like ordering a Fiat when you can get a Wolkswageen for only a little bit more. The worst thing about the IC4 however (besides the extreme delay) is that they are completely outdated. They only live up to the Euro 2 polluting norm, and they dont even have a tilting function which is highly needed on the curvey Danish railways.

I think the best purchase for DSB instead of the IC4, would have been the Spanish Talgo XXI high speed diesel tilting train below, which is the current record holder for non eletric trains with 256 km/h.


Last edited by Wallaroo; September 27th, 2007 at 06:30 PM.
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Old September 19th, 2007, 04:35 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
Italians are well known for making crappy products all the way from cars to washing machines, due to their low working moral. Ordering trains from Italy is therefore downright stupid unless its a well tested and reliable product already in service. Its like ordering a Fiat when you can get a Wolkswageen for only a little bit more.
And the winner for "stupid stereotypes and unpolite posts" is...
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Old January 19th, 2008, 06:18 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by mlm View Post
Finally, the IC4 "a bit of a fiasco"? It's a HUGE fiasco. Not one single set is in regular operation yet. I still wonder why on earth they choose AnsaldoBreda, since there was a bunch of known issues with them earlier. It's the same situation in Belgium btw, they're also waiting for a bunch of new sets from AnsaldoBreda, also very much delayed.
They choose AnsaldoBreda because they could deliver them a couple of hundred millions cheaper than the closest competitor. They are still not in regular service - guess thats how it goes when you are too cheap.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 07:15 PM   #106
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In my opinion, with techinal reasons aside national regulations are a major problem and probably the biggest in Europe. Even though they dont ask for passports anymore, they still have to change staff from German DB to Austrian BB on the German/Austrian border (at least, that happened when I went from Munich to Innsbruck)
Thats how it is on the Euro City trains from Denmark to Germany as well. It takes at least 1/2 hour for them to change the locomotive and staff in Padborg, and there are only 2 departures per day. The Danish regional trains end their service in Padborg, even though it would be so easy for those idiots to let them end their service in Flensburg instead, and thereby give travelers much better connections to Germany.

It is beginning to get a little better though. They have used IC3 trains from rhus to Hamburg on some ocations for a couple of years now, and DB have since december had a direct ICE connection from Copenhagen to Berlin via ferry. This year they will make a direct ICE connection from rhus to Hamburg as well. http://www.bahn.de/db_danmark/view/z...penhagen.shtml
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Plus, because the railways are "national", this means that border crossings are often veeery slow due to lack of investment. "Why invest on the last stretch, our responsibility ends there!" or whatever the transport department think. This is especially so on the Danish-German border where the double track stretch in Denmark ends 10-20 km from the border and there are plenty of level crossings on the last stretch, and its the same between Graz and Maribor (Austria/Slovenia).
That is so very very true, but only on the Danish side of the border of course. I think it is as much as 50-60 km of a poor low speed single track on the Danish side, even though a high speed double track is highly needed.

Last edited by Wallaroo; January 20th, 2008 at 03:18 AM.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 12:09 AM   #107
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From my experience UK trains were the worst considering price/quality. They are ok but they were super expensive for poor EE. Just imagine, suburban south coast electrical trains were old, slow (around 100km/h with frequent stations). We have old, slow trains here too. But in Latvia trains are 10 - 12x times (!) cheaper. So UK trains were xtremely disappointing for me. Driving car is cheaper. My host family father bought 3000 pound worth monthly pass. Here for the same distance such pass would cost around 300 pounds. But if you are rich enough than UK system is ok
I rode danish trains and they were good for it. The inly problem was that they were ugly But comfort is the main thing so they are good. And if you want to know what really uncomfortable train is you should test commie 50 year old train with wooden bench! There are few left here but they begin to fascinate me.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 08:53 PM   #108
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For those who think the danish train is bad... then don't look at these videos from the argentine trains (a country where we are about to build a 320 km/h speed train, yes)

Peak hour
Great railway maintenance

Last edited by Inuya5ha; January 21st, 2008 at 08:59 PM.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 12:55 AM   #109
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My worst experience in Europe so far (granted, only a few countries) was in the UK. When I bought tickets for Stansted Express I was expecting something similar to what we have in Stockholm (Arlanda Express, nice modern trains connecting Stockholm and Arlanda Airport at 200 km/h in 20 min), especially given the very high price. I was shocked to be greeted by kind of old trains that were shaky etc traveling at slower speeds than the very slowest and oldest commuter trains in Stockholm (that are soon to be gone forever) -- for about 2000000x the cost of a ticket, of course! Oy.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 05:26 AM   #110
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My worst experience in Europe so far (granted, only a few countries) was in the UK. When I bought tickets for Stansted Express I was expecting something similar to what we have in Stockholm (Arlanda Express, nice modern trains connecting Stockholm and Arlanda Airport at 200 km/h in 20 min), especially given the very high price. I was shocked to be greeted by kind of old trains that were shaky etc traveling at slower speeds than the very slowest and oldest commuter trains in Stockholm (that are soon to be gone forever) -- for about 2000000x the cost of a ticket, of course! Oy.
I'd agree with you to an extent. Some UK trains are very nice and swift - the Virgin series of trains, GNER and the now National Express series of trains are rather nice. Silverlink between Northampton and London used to be pretty good too.

The thing that I believe makes it the worst in Europe isn't the rolling stock or the track maintenance, it's the price. For value for money, forget it, British people should be taking a Maglev everywhere! It only begins to be value for money with the addition of a railpass.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 01:16 PM   #111
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I'd agree with you to an extent. Some UK trains are very nice and swift - the Virgin series of trains, GNER and the now National Express series of trains are rather nice. Silverlink between Northampton and London used to be pretty good too.

The thing that I believe makes it the worst in Europe isn't the rolling stock or the track maintenance, it's the price. For value for money, forget it, British people should be taking a Maglev everywhere! It only begins to be value for money with the addition of a railpass.
Exactly! It is very dense network in UK, some lines have good trains like pendoline etc. But all of them are extremely expensive! My friend from London prefers to fly to the Madrid for weekend in place of visiting friends in her birthtown (Brighton I guess). Because it is cheaper to fly to the Madrid by low cost airline than to go somewhere near by f+++ing train. And as I said before suburban electric trains were "as fast" as our commie trains, the only difference was they are 10-12x times more expensive. Railway infrastructure privatisation SUCKS. If they privatise railway than why don't privatise army, police, fire depatment?
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 01:26 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Alexriga View Post
Exactly! It is very dense network in UK, some lines have good trains like pendoline etc. But all of them are extremely expensive! My friend from London prefers to fly to the Madrid for weekend in place of visiting friends in her birthtown (Brighton I guess). Because it is cheaper to fly to the Madrid by low cost airline than to go somewhere near by f+++ing train. And as I said before suburban electric trains were "as fast" as our commie trains, the only difference was they are 10-12x times more expensive. Railway infrastructure privatisation SUCKS. If they privatise railway than why don't privatise army, police, fire depatment?
Tickets can be cheap though like London-Manchester return on the pendolino for 25 or London-Birmingham return for only 10 on the Chiltern Line. You just need to buy far enough in advance. The London airport express services are shockingly expensive though, and season ticket prices on regualr commuter services into London are also much more expensive than for the same distance elsewhere in the country.

My season ticket is 1600 per year and I travel 32,000 Km with it so it's a cost of 0.05 per Km, much, much cheaper than driving.

Last edited by Jonesy55; January 22nd, 2008 at 01:45 PM.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 03:38 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
They choose AnsaldoBreda because they could deliver them a couple of hundred millions cheaper than the closest competitor. They are still not in regular service - guess thats how it goes when you are too cheap.
In 2004 the National Dutch Railways ordered also at AnsaldoBreda. The new highspeed track from A'dam to Belgium already is finished in 2007 (Total cost 6,7 billion Euro) And the trains still not delivered from AnsaldoBreda!
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 10:28 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
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I think the best purchase for DSB instead of the IC4, would have been the Spanish Talgo XXI high speed diesel tilting train below, which is the current record holder for non eletric trains with 256 km/h.

I think the problem is that Spanish production needs to still work very hard to get over the hurdle of the weak "Made in Spain" brand. From what I see, Talgo and CAF are largely neglected when it comes to discussion of European transport manufacturers, eclipsed by Siemens and Alstom.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:12 PM   #115
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Tickets can be cheap though like London-Manchester return on the pendolino for 25 or London-Birmingham return for only 10 on the Chiltern Line. You just need to buy far enough in advance. The London airport express services are shockingly expensive though, and season ticket prices on regualr commuter services into London are also much more expensive than for the same distance elsewhere in the country.

My season ticket is 1600 per year and I travel 32,000 Km with it so it's a cost of 0.05 per Km, much, much cheaper than driving.
Ok, that's nice. But I'm like tourist or part time work would prefer bus If you travel a lot by train than it could be ok. Anyway 0,015/km here ijn Latvia if you don't have a month ticket or les than 0,01/km if you have it. I mean if you don't travel a lot. Speed is 70-110 km/h suburban lanes I mean.

Last edited by Alexriga; January 23rd, 2008 at 11:18 PM.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 12:55 PM   #116
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Ok, that's nice. But I'm like tourist or part time work would prefer bus If you travel a lot by train than it could be ok. Anyway 0,015/km here ijn Latvia if you don't have a month ticket or les than 0,01/km if you have it. I mean if you don't travel a lot. Speed is 70-110 km/h suburban lanes I mean.
Yeah, I can see how it would be expensive for a visitor who doesn't know how to get the cheaper tickets, it's not very simple.

My journey to work takes about 55 minutes for 75km, so an average speed of 82 Km/h, this is probably about average for a commuter service. The mainlines though are much quicker, London-Manchester average speed of 145 km/h, London-Newcastle average 155 km/h, these are some of the fastest non-HSR services in the world.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 06:06 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
Tickets can be cheap though like London-Manchester return on the pendolino for 25 or London-Birmingham return for only 10 on the Chiltern Line. You just need to buy far enough in advance. The London airport express services are shockingly expensive though, and season ticket prices on regualr commuter services into London are also much more expensive than for the same distance elsewhere in the country.

My season ticket is 1600 per year and I travel 32,000 Km with it so it's a cost of 0.05 per Km, much, much cheaper than driving.
What are the basic km ticket price for trains in the UK? Its about 1 danish crown in Denmark, or 0.13.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 06:22 PM   #118
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I don't think there are any, the companies just make up their own pricing structures like airlines. Only the cost of season tickets is regulated by the government and even then there is no standard per Km price as fares into London are more expensive than elsewhere.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 06:54 PM   #119
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I don't think there are any, the companies just make up their own pricing structures like airlines. Only the cost of season tickets is regulated by the government and even then there is no standard per Km price as fares into London are more expensive than elsewhere.
Thats where the British government made a huge mistake when they decided to privatize the railways. The government should always regulate the price to make sure it doesnt get more expensive, and that the km price is the same everywhere in the country. It works very well with Denmarks first railway privatization where Arriva took over from DSB - the km price is still the same, they have more departures per day, and they get huge fines from the government if their trains are too delayed, or they insert buses instead of trains. I think the danish government learned a lot from the mistakes made in the UK, and I really look forward to the the day they sell DSB. Maybe Arriva, Virgin or another big British railway operator are interested in buying it.
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Old January 24th, 2008, 07:01 PM   #120
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But why would they do that? The government doesn't regulate air fares to ensure that they all have exactly the same per km price. Some routes and some times have more demand than others, if everywhere had to be the same price, some routes would be empty while others would be overcrowded.
As it is now, the companies give big discounts for times and trains that are not so popular and cover the cost of that by charging more at peak times and on the busiest routes just like airlines do.

The government has actually made a deliberate decision to increase the season tickets that it does regulate by more than inflation so that more of the cost of the railways is borne by passengers and less by taxpayers.
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