New shops in the city centre

[paulmat]

Yeah I was a bit confused about that too. There's no documents with it yet though, so I couldn't see a) if it was these buildings, and b) how they'd do it.

[Halfy]

Originally Posted by paulmat

Sheffield also used to have the most department stores outside of London back in't day. But that was many years ago, way before I was born.

Evening chaps,
I'm not quite old enough to remember when it were all fields but I remember the Moor being a decent class shopping street, unlike the Poundstretcher Avenue it's become.
Wonder if anyone else remember Sheffield's Christmas illuminations in the Seventies, they were second to none (far better than London's at the time), people used to come into the city from all over the North to see them and it must have brought plenty of custom to the shops. Then they went downhill so quickly in the Eighties, one year, the best display in the city was in some guys back garden in Fulwood. They've improved again in the last few years but it's a pity the money can't be found to restore them to their former glory.

P.S Congratulations to everyone in volved for making the Sheffield SSC forum as entertaining, interesting and informative as it is.

[paulmat]

Welcome Halfy

[Bulldozer]

Originally Posted by Halfy

Evening chaps,
I'm not quite old enough to remember when it were all fields but I remember the Moor being a decent class shopping street, unlike the Poundstretcher Avenue it's become.
Wonder if anyone else remember Sheffield's Christmas illuminations in the Seventies, they were second to none (far better than London's at the time), people used to come into the city from all over the North to see them and it must have brought plenty of custom to the shops. Then they went downhill so quickly in the Eighties, ....

The eighties recession did not help, but the council moving the 'markets' has driven it all down hill.

But a major factor is the high rates kill little shops, and for the big names the lack of suitable units to suit there needs. Some units have been re modeled but a lot are not suitable as ownership is also an issue as it takes time to buy up block of land to redevelop.
The lack of demand for the upper floors as offices means it does not add up for investors, but the "modern" practice of building flats over, helps it become viable to redevelop.

Redgates toy shop was taken over by Hamleys then they had financial problems and shut it down. and similar problems effected other chains and they pulled out, some like House of Fraiser to Meadowhall.
Another factor was stores opening in big cheap units on out of town retail parks. Look how Parkgate and Meadowhall has killed Rotherham town centre.
IMO

[paulmat]

Looks like TK Maxx are wanting new stores in Sheffield and Meadowhall: http://www.tkmaxx.com/property_list.aspx

[muddycoffee]

Welcome Halfy,
I remember when they first pedestrianised the Moor.
I was a small boy and it was quite scarey walking down the middle of a main road with all the road markings still on it. I thought I was going to be run down by a bus..

[Superfly]

Great avatar Halfy! Personally I'd love to see the return of Redgates (ty Bulldozer, was racking my brains for that one!) and Beatties, I have such fond memories of never being allowed to go in either!

[paulmat]

Do Beatties still exist?

I want through the Victoria Quarter in Leeds today, and I agree with Leeds No. 1. It would be really great to do something similar (i.e make a covered street/mall), and attract some big names to it. I'm not sure though if we've really got any streets which (currently) we could do something similar too.

Another thing which struck me today in Leeds is that Sheffield is a bit odd in not having any covered malls in the city centre. Birmingham has the Bullring and the Palisades, Manchester has the Arndale, Leeds has various smaller ones, Bristol has Broadmead etc... Big (and upmarket) retailers seem to prefer these malls to normal shopping streets (although personally I prefer shopping in the open air).

[OranjeS3]

Originally Posted by paulmat

Do Beatties still exist?

I want through the Victoria Quarter in Leeds today, and I agree with Leeds No. 1. It would be really great to do something similar (i.e make a covered street/mall), and attract some big names to it. I'm not sure though if we've really got any streets which (currently) we could do something similar too.

Another thing which struck me today in Leeds is that Sheffield is a bit odd in not having any covered malls in the city centre. Birmingham has the Bullring and the Palisades, Manchester has the Arndale, Leeds has various smaller ones, Bristol has Broadmead etc... Big (and upmarket) retailers seem to prefer these malls to normal shopping streets (although personally I prefer shopping in the open air).

One of the biggest problems we have is terms of shopping and movement around the centre the general layout. Rather than a grid pattern with a small shopping area, we have spread out streets that don't have connections, the main shopping areas of The Moor, Fargate and Division St are all seperate with no interconnecting shopping streets. Hopefully the NRQ will go some way to linking things up a bit better, but the layout does not lend itself to an arcade.

[paulmat]

The changes that orchard square have applied for don't have anything to do with All Bar One. It's actually the units between (but not including) the Bodyshop and Clarks, and the small unit facing Leopold Street. They're gonna combine it all into one big unit. (See http://planningdocs.sheffield.gov.uk...e=&pageCount=3)

Orchard Square seem to be slowly refurbishing themselves, what with the new 20,000 sqft River Island, the Perfume Shop, the two floor Starbucks (and outdoor seating), the 40,000 sqft unit where TK Maxx is, and now this.

Elsewhere, I always think the blood donor centre would be good as a retail unit (although obviously they need somewhere for the donor centre). It's pretty large. Maybe it would be a good place for TK Maxx to move to. (It'd bring a bit more life into the area too).

[tom85]

Originally Posted by OranjeS3

One of the biggest problems we have is terms of shopping and movement around the centre the general layout. Rather than a grid pattern with a small shopping area, we have spread out streets that don't have connections, the main shopping areas of The Moor, Fargate and Division St are all seperate with no interconnecting shopping streets. Hopefully the NRQ will go some way to linking things up a bit better, but the layout does not lend itself to an arcade.

Yes i agree i often walk round aimlessly wondering where to go if i'm on fargate I get lost looking for bakerspool and the division street or the peace gardens and then down to the Moor it really is so confusing........... Not

[OranjeS3]

Originally Posted by tom85

Yes i agree i often walk round aimlessly wondering where to go if i'm on fargate I get lost looking for bakerspool and the division street or the peace gardens and then down to the Moor it really is so confusing........... Not

Did I say it was confusing or that you get lost? No.

I was pointing out the fact that Leeds lends itself to arcades (the original point of the discussion in relation to attracting big names who appear to prefer arcades or shopping centres). It is more enjoyable and easier to get around Leeds when shopping because you don't have to walk long distances as everything is in a big grid, the point I was making is that our biggest problem is the layout of the shopping area, not just a lack of appropriate accomodation.

This highlights Sheffield's main shopping streets with Leeds.

[paulmat]

Yep. I agree with you there about the layout too. I guess this is why the council wants Castlegate as a 'secondary' retail area. The NRQ is meant to help to link the Devonshire Quarter and the Moor better into a 'retail area' by creating more of a core.

Something else (unrelated to retail) that Leeds has which could be a good idea in Sheffield is an inner city loop. It's a one way loop system around the centre (although further in than the inner ring road). It could be a good way to increase the cities vehicular capacity without creating large duel carriage ways, and it would be reasonably simple to follow as it's just a clockwise loop.

[bersamim]

The one-way system around the city centre is one of things I hate most about Leeds. If we could do it well, it may be a good idea - in Leeds it drives me insane!

[Bulldozer]

Originally Posted by bersamim

The one-way system around the city centre is one of things I hate most about Leeds. If we could do it well, it may be a good idea - in Leeds it drives me insane!

Agree one way system dosent work sheffiled also trying that in some areas but that results in grid lock, ands not Green, as how can having to drive 3 sides of a sq be good as traffics the doubled or more.
We Have (nearly) got a loop road its called the IRR.
It just findig sensible routes within it withbus gates and dead ends to get to places as the throug routes closed off.

Like the Maps OranjS3, but division street joins west street at west one shops/ bars.
The overall layout is linear like meadowhall !
Leeds is Like metro centre Squares (before extension)
i find sheffield flows better walking round than Leeds, because if you go int the shoping centres there you come out on a diferent level and street, they dont flow.
IMO

[Halfy]

Originally Posted by paulmat

Do Beatties still exist?

I want through the Victoria Quarter in Leeds today, and I agree with Leeds No. 1. It would be really great to do something similar (i.e make a covered street/mall), and attract some big names to it. I'm not sure though if we've really got any streets which (currently) we could do something similar too.

Another thing which struck me today in Leeds is that Sheffield is a bit odd in not having any covered malls in the city centre. Birmingham has the Bullring and the Palisades, Manchester has the Arndale, Leeds has various smaller ones, Bristol has Broadmead etc... Big (and upmarket) retailers seem to prefer these malls to normal shopping streets (although personally I prefer shopping in the open air).

Sheffield did have a covered arcade once, it was called the Cambridge Arcade, it's long gone and didn't look very thrilling anyway, certainly nothing like the arcades in L***s which are pretty impressive. There's a couple of pictures of it in one of those "Sheffield in the fifties and sixties" type books, it might be in Waterstones in Orchard Square who seem to have a decent selection of 'local interest' type books, I've stood there for ages browsing before now and never been thrown out once!

[Halfy]

Originally Posted by paulmat

Do Beatties still exist?

I want through the Victoria Quarter in Leeds today, and I agree with Leeds No. 1. It would be really great to do something similar (i.e make a covered street/mall), and attract some big names to it. I'm not sure though if we've really got any streets which (currently) we could do something similar too.

Another thing which struck me today in Leeds is that Sheffield is a bit odd in not having any covered malls in the city centre. Birmingham has the Bullring and the Palisades, Manchester has the Arndale, Leeds has various smaller ones, Bristol has Broadmead etc... Big (and upmarket) retailers seem to prefer these malls to normal shopping streets (although personally I prefer shopping in the open air).

Sheffield did have a covered arcade once, it was called the Cambridge Arcade, it's long gone and didn't look very thrilling anyway, certainly nothing like the arcades in L***s which are pretty impressive. There's a couple of pictures of it in one of those "Sheffield in the fifties and sixties" type books, it might be in Waterstones in Orchard Square who seem to have a decent selection of 'local interest' type books, I've stood there for ages browsing before now and never been thrown out once!

[paulmat]

Is it this in the foreground?



Apparently this is Pinstone Street. Howcome it doesn't look anything like modern day Pinstone Street? Even though it's one of our only streets with (pretty much) all it's old buildings remaining. (Think it's the town hall on the left).

Also, anyone know what the taller building at the end of the road is? (Not the tower, but the building next to it).

[OranjeS3]

Originally Posted by paulmat

Is it this in the foreground?



Apparently this is Pinstone Street. Howcome it doesn't look anything like modern day Pinstone Street? Even though it's one of our only streets with (pretty much) all it's old buildings remaining. (Think it's the town hall on the left).

Also, anyone know what the taller building at the end of the road is? (Not the tower, but the building next to it).

Is that the old St. Pauls church in the background? I think It stood where the peace gardens are now.

[hella good]

thats correct