daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Continental Forums > North American Skyscrapers Forum > General > NASF Archive



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


 

 
Thread Tools
Old August 12th, 2007, 09:16 PM   #41
sdeclue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 878
Likes (Received): 41

Awesome news on Harbor Point. Always like to hear towers as opposed to big boxy buildings like the Hilton Convention Hotel, which is effectively blocking the Bromo Seltzer tower and a large part of the skyline outside Camden Yards.

That transit map from above really misses out on hitting two very populated areas: northeast and southwest bmore and their suburbs. Areas like White Marsh, Perry Hall, Catonsville and Arbutus would be well served by mass transit.
sdeclue no está en línea  

Sponsored Links
 
Old August 13th, 2007, 06:57 AM   #42
Northern
Unregistered User
 
Northern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 270
Likes (Received): 0

New photos from usual angles:

Mica dorm


The Ritz




4 Seasons/Legg Mason


panoramic view:


Here I took the time to photograph one of the 120 blue light cameras that for some time now have been part of the urban landscape

__________________
Cheers!..

Last edited by Northern; August 13th, 2007 at 07:04 AM.
Northern no está en línea  
Old August 13th, 2007, 07:04 PM   #43
Baltimoreborn1
Born & Raised
 
Baltimoreborn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 244
Likes (Received): 3

Great pics! Thanks a bunch, I'm curious about Silo Point as well if anybody has any shots of that.
Baltimoreborn1 no está en línea  
Old August 13th, 2007, 07:14 PM   #44
southbalto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 452
Likes (Received): 3

Nice shots northern.

I think the glass is on bottom portion of the silo point project but nothing up top.

Convention Center hotel is looking good.
southbalto no está en línea  
Old August 13th, 2007, 08:05 PM   #45
30 Floors Up
Registered User
 
30 Floors Up's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,571
Likes (Received): 93

Future of Mechanic hinges on its design
Edward Gunts | Architecture | August 13, 2007

Of all the arguments for designating Baltimore's Morris A. Mechanic Theatre a city landmark, one of the strongest comes from the owner itself. Others have reasoned that the 1967 building is a laudable symbol of its times, an inspired work of modern design by an architect of international stature. Those are valid points. But the owner has filed plans with the city indicating what it might do to the vacant building in Charles Center if it's not protected by landmark status and, in doing so, it demonstrated exactly why it needs to be protected.

Baltimore's Commission for Historical and Architectural Preservation is scheduled to meet tomorrow afternoon to decide whether to add the Mechanic Theatre to the city's landmark list, an act that would give the panel legal authority to review and approve any changes to the exterior.

The owner, a group called One West Baltimore Street Associates, doesn't want to tear down the building that served as downtown Baltimore's performing arts center for more than 30 years.

It wants to convert it from an arts center to a mixed-use complex containing retail space and a 10-story residential tower. The group has already torn out the theater's seats and other interior portions. One suggested name is "Mechanic Supercenter."

The drawings on file with the city indicate that the owner wants to add so much to the building to accommodate the new uses that little would be visible of the original structure. In effect, the theater would be enveloped on all sides by new construction, including the housing tower on the east and a new glass entrance and shopping level on the west, facing Hopkins Plaza.

Based on the renderings, the theater would be barely recognizable underneath. All that appears to be visible of the original building are angled walls on the north and south sides, where the seating was inside, and two piers that staked out the theater's main entrance.

Built by Baltimore businessman Morris Mechanic, the 1,600-seat theater was designed by John M. Johansen of Connecticut to be the sculptural centerpiece of the 33-acre Charles Center renewal area. It was seen by many as a symbol of the city's rejuvenation, but it also sparked controversy.

The building is a prime example of the architectural movement known as "New Brutalism" because of its rough concrete surface and free-form shapes. Johansen called it "functional expressionism" because he designed the exterior to express what was going on inside. The design received numerous awards and accolades in architectural circles.

Others have been less complementary. A theater critic once said seeing a play there was like watching a performance in a storm drain. The theater closed in 2004 after the more traditional France-Merrick Performing Arts Center opened on Eutaw Street. Mechanic's estate sold it the following year for $6 million. The Mechanic is controlled by the principals of Arrow Parking, which operates the garage beneath the theater, and David S. Brown Enterprises, a developer based in Baltimore County. Their architect is J.T. Fishman & Associates of Owings Mills.

Arthur Adler, vice president of Brown Enterprises, referred questions about the Mechanic to Benjamin Greenwald of Arrow. Greenwald declined to discuss the project except to say that design work is at a preliminary stage. The owner has made it clear that it isn't in favor of the landmark designation - that could limit what it does with the property - but it has agreed not to proceed with further demolition of the building until the public hearing is held, according to city officials.

Even if the design is preliminary, it shows an attitude toward the building that is entirely different from the former owners'. The current owner isn't a theater operator that wants to restore the building, the way the Hippodrome was brought back to life on Eutaw Street. It proposes to adapt it for new uses, and that means extensive modifications, inside and out. Under Fishman's plan, the Mechanic would no longer be the building Johansen designed - or anything close to it.

In some ways, the idea of adding so much to the building could be worse than tearing it down and starting over. It changes the original creation beyond recognition, under the guise of preserving its memory.

But how much change is too much? Could the additions be limited so more of Johansen's work is recognizable? Is that even an appropriate goal? If Johansen designed the exterior to express the theater inside, and the building no longer functions as a theater, is it more honest to retain the original exterior or come up with a new one?

There are urban design and land-use issues to consider as well. Is it wrong to make the building something other than an arts center? The theater was conceived as a relatively low-rise object on a plaza, surrounded by taller office buildings and hotels, to help keep downtown alive after dark. It permits an attractive view from Hopkins Plaza through to the Art Deco tower at 10 Light St. With a 10-story tower added to the Charles Street side, the view of 10 Light St. would be lost. Yet downtown could benefit greatly from the activity generated by a residential tower at Charles and Baltimore streets.

That's where the preservation commission, and the idea of landmark designation, comes in. Adding the Mechanic to the city's landmark list doesn't mean the building couldn't be adapted for new uses. That may, in fact, be the best way to save it. Many city landmarks have been modified with the commission's blessing.

At the same time, this building is prominent enough and steeped enough in Baltimore history that any plans to alter it should receive careful scrutiny and full public discussion, no matter who owns it.

The preservation commission provides a forum for such review. Ideally, it has the power to make something good happen, and to prevent something bad. That additional layer of oversight is one of the best reasons for adding the Mechanic Theatre to Baltimore's landmark list.
30 Floors Up no está en línea  
Old August 13th, 2007, 09:31 PM   #46
jamie_hunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,921
Likes (Received): 153

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
Future of Mechanic hinges on its design
Edward Gunts | Architecture | August 13, 2007

The drawings on file with the city indicate that the owner wants to add so much to the building to accommodate the new uses that little would be visible of the original structure. In effect, the theater would be enveloped on all sides by new construction, including the housing tower on the east and a new glass entrance and shopping level on the west, facing Hopkins Plaza.

Based on the renderings, the theater would be barely recognizable underneath. All that appears to be visible of the original building are angled walls on the north and south sides, where the seating was inside, and two piers that staked out the theater's main entrance.
Those things are about all that was distinctive about the building. If a building could thumb its nose at the world, the Mechanic surely did.
jamie_hunt no está en línea  
Old August 13th, 2007, 10:07 PM   #47
Maudibjr
Indeed
 
Maudibjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,031
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
Cool. Where in east TN.? I lived in Oakridge for 2 1/2 years. 79'-81'.
Newport 82'-87'

I have no porblems seeing the mechanic disappear, I have no love for that style of building at all.
Maudibjr no está en línea  
Old August 13th, 2007, 10:26 PM   #48
Brian21
Registered User
 
Brian21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 917
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
Those things are about all that was distinctive about the building. If a building could thumb its nose at the world, the Mechanic surely did.
I sure hope they put something bigger than a 10 story apartment building there. I mean while I love to see towers rise, I'm not a Tallaholic (If thats a word lol) but something with signature status needs to go on that site. Its huge, it has a plaza, shops, and sits right over the subway line.
__________________
Brian
Brian21 no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 02:41 AM   #49
Fells28
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 30
Likes (Received): 0

[QUOTE=Northern;14766878]New photos from usual angles:

Mica dorm




Looks like their using the same opaque glass covering that they used on their other ultra modern building (the Brown Bldg. or something like that). I'm really starting to love this part of town. It's definitely the most adventurous and interesting architecturally.
Fells28 no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 03:31 AM   #50
StevenW
Born in Baltimore
 
StevenW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Newberry, SC
Posts: 11,197
Likes (Received): 927

those are great photos.
__________________
Baltimore, my hometown.
StevenW no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 12:25 PM   #51
30 Floors Up
Registered User
 
30 Floors Up's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,571
Likes (Received): 93

I had mixed emotions about this building until I educated myself about it's significance and why it was placed the way it was on the plaza. I'm leaning toward preservation at this point. I doubt that you could get so many world class architectes to advocate for any other building in Baltimore except perhaps the World Trade Center or the Aquarium. It certainly is a unique structure, and the cookie cutter tower they want to construct around it could go any place.









Save Mechanic, architect urges
Johansen supports making his 1967 work a landmark


By Edward Gunts | Sun architecture critic
August 14, 2007

John M. Johansen has painful memories of a time when TV personalities Phil Donahue and Marlo Thomas paid $6.8 million to purchase a house he designed in Connecticut, only to tear it down. "It was like a death in the family," he laments. Now the retired architect wants to avert another death - this time a theater he designed for downtown Baltimore.

Parking lot operators have purchased the dormant Morris A. Mechanic Theatre in Charles Center for $6 million and teamed with a developer who wants to build housing, stores and maybe a hotel on the site.

The city's preservation commission is meeting at 3:30 p.m. today to decide whether to designate the 1967 theater a city landmark. That action could help protect it from demolition or extensive modification, because it would give the panel legal authority to review and approve any changes to the building's exterior once it is listed.

Johansen, an internationally renowned architect who at 91 has seen a half-dozen of his buildings razed or burned to the ground, isn't sitting idly by, however. From his home in Stanfordville, N.Y., two hours north of New York City, he has written to Mayor Sheila Dixon and the commission's directors with a plea to protect the building and urged dozens of leading architects and educators to do the same.

"I've lost seven houses - five in Connecticut and others in Massachusetts and New York," he said by phone. "I don't know what more to do. The law says whatever you own, you can destroy, except your own children. That's why we have preservation commissions. Once a building is designated a landmark, then it's not owned by just one party. It belongs to the citizenry."

Built by Baltimore real estate magnate Morris A. Mechanic, the theater opened in 1967 at 1 W. Baltimore St. as the sculptural centerpiece of Baltimore's Charles Center renewal area. It closed after the France-Merrick Performing Arts Center opened in 2004 and was purchased from Mechanic's estate in 2005 by principals of the company that operates a parking garage beneath it.

The effort to designate the Mechanic Theatre a local landmark is unusual for many reasons, including the building's relatively young age and the fact that the current owners don't support landmark designation.

In the past, the preservation commission has pursued landmark designation of a building only if its owners agreed. But because several historically significant buildings have been torn down in the past two years without the protection of local landmark status, including the 100-year-old Rochambeau apartments in Mount Vernon and a block of 1820s rowhouses near Mercy Medical Center, the panel has started considering listing buildings even if owners disagree.

One of the most unusual aspects about the effort to list the Mechanic is that its architect is still alive and fighting to protect it. Most buildings are considered for landmark designation after they have been around 50 years or more - often after their designers have died.

"Usually, when you prepare a landmark nomination, you don't get a chance to talk to the architect," said Fred Shoken, a city planner assigned to Baltimore's Commission for Historical and Architectural Preservation. "This is a rare exception."

To contemplate losing a building is wrenching for any architect, said Damie Stillman, John W. Shirley professor emeritus of art history at the University of Delaware.

"It must be like losing a child," said Stillman, who wrote a letter supporting landmark designation of the theater. "They're creations. To lose one is horrendous."

Hugh Hardy, an acclaimed New York designer who also wrote a letter on behalf of designating the Mechanic a landmark, said he recently learned that a residence he designed in Boston was torn down to make way for expansion of the neighboring hotel. He found out only when he sent a friend to see the residence and the friend said it wasn't there.

No matter how passionately architects work on them, "they're not your own buildings," Hardy said. "You don't possess them. They're made for other people, and other people do the damnedest things. That's all part of what it is to be an architect."

Born in New York City in 1916, the son of world-class portrait painters John Christen and Jean MacLane Johansen, John Johansen trained as a painter before turning to architecture and graduating from Harvard University's Graduate School of Design in 1939.

At Harvard, Johansen was influenced by Bauhaus master Walter Gropius and later married Gropius' daughter. After working with the firm Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, he opened a practice in New Canaan, Conn., near noted architects Philip Johnson, Marcel Breuer and Eliot Noyes. He became part of an elite group of architects who were early champions of modern design in America.

Johansen was one of the pioneers of a design approach known as Brutalism because it involved creating unadorned buildings with raw concrete - "breton brut" in French.

He produced a relatively small body of work but gained international stature. His projects include the U.S. Embassy in Ireland, the Mummers Theater in Oklahoma City, Clowes Memorial Hall and Opera House in Indianapolis, and Roosevelt Island Housing in New York. In 1968, Time magazine named Johansen one of the country's leading architects, along with Paul Rudolph, Eero Saarinen, Breuer, Johnson and others. With Johnson's death in 2005, his contemporaries are no longer alive.

"I'm the only one left," he says. But Johansen doesn't want pity. He simply believes the Mechanic is worth preserving, and he'll do whatever he can to make that happen. He notes that the theater was a key building in downtown Baltimore's renewal in the 1960s, designed to bring the arts to an area that was primarily offices.

"The Mechanic Theatre is one of my favorites," he said. "It's right up there at the top of the list. It's a dear, dear building. It's not brutalistic, as some say. It's like a flower, opening its petals. It has drawing power." He recalls that he got the commission because the client, Morris Mechanic, wanted a well-known architect.

"Mr. Mechanic, looking for a big name, said, 'Let's go to Frank Lloyd Wright.' He was dead. Then they went to Philip Johnson, but there wasn't enough money for him." Johansen was receiving attention for some of his first non-residential buildings. Johnson suggested Johansen as an architect who might work within Mechanic's budget, and Mechanic hired him.

Johansen responded with a theater whose concrete exterior was designed to express what was going on inside. The "ribs" on the north and south sides of the building are the backs of the seating areas inside. He called it functional expressionism. Others described the building in less flattering terms, such as "Fort Mechanic." One public official likened its shape to that of a "poached egg on toast."

Johansen cringes at such descriptions and says they generally come from people who don't understand what he was trying to do. "It's so low in its sensibility," he said of the poached egg comment. "People should not even laugh at that. Whether you like the building or not, it's an honest work of architecture. The people whose views should be taken seriously are deans of architecture schools and that sort of thing, not the common person on the street."

That's why he asked leading architects and educators to write to the preservation commission. As of this week, the panel has received more than a dozen letters from luminaries in the U.S. and Great Britain. Besides Hardy, correspondents include Sir Richard Rogers of London, co-designer of the Pompidou Centre in Paris; Richard Meier, lead designer of the Getty Center in California; Kevin Roche, designer of the Ford Foundation headquarters in New York; and James Stewart Polshek, author of the Rose Center in New York and the Clinton Library in Arkansas.

University deans and professors and museum directors also have weighed in, all saying the building should be designated a landmark. Both the local chapter of the American Institute of Architects (AIA) and the National AIA Committee on Design favor designation.

Some of the letters contain barbs that could have come right out of Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead. "I urge your commission to save [the Mechanic] ... from the wrecking ball of greed," wrote Polshek, longtime dean of Columbia University's Graduate School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation.

It's "an architectural treasure" for a city "lacking in great examples of modern architecture," Meier wrote.

It was "created in fearless dedication to the future ... at a time when others had abandoned hope," said Hardy.

In his letter to the mayor, Johansen said he believes the property should continue to be used for "cultural and civic" purposes, not just "additional commercial enterprise."


He suggests that the Mechanic could live on as "a hybrid building that would be a combination of theater and restaurant, with well-known chefs" - as a way to keep Charles Center alive after dark. Although he is retired, Johansen said he would be available to serve as a consultant to the owners and their designers, if they wished.

Beyond that, "there's nothing more that I can do," he said. "Or is there?"
30 Floors Up no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 02:19 PM   #52
MasonsInquiries
B-MORE than u strive for!
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Baltimore/Columbia, Md.
Posts: 2,260
Likes (Received): 3

hmmmm, not a bad-lookin' colaboration when you really look at it closely. but i still think we should get more than 10 floors outta' this deal, wada.
MasonsInquiries no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 02:54 PM   #53
Brian21
Registered User
 
Brian21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 917
Likes (Received): 0

Yup...I mean if they want to preserve the Mechanic, hey thats fine. However, that spot will be awesome for a mall with a residential tower over it thats taller than 10 flrs. Perhaps 30-40 flrs should go there. I mean the people that would live there wouldn't have much of a view except for the surrounding towers (BOA, Legg Mason, etc) Ok enough of my ranting
__________________
Brian
Brian21 no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 02:56 PM   #54
jamie_hunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,921
Likes (Received): 153

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Floors Up View Post
Save Mechanic, architect urges
Johansen supports making his 1967 work a landmark


By Edward Gunts | Sun architecture critic
August 14, 2007

[snip]
Johansen responded with a theater whose concrete exterior was designed to express what was going on inside. The "ribs" on the north and south sides of the building are the backs of the seating areas inside. He called it functional expressionism. Others described the building in less flattering terms, such as "Fort Mechanic." One public official likened its shape to that of a "poached egg on toast."

Johansen cringes at such descriptions and says they generally come from people who don't understand what he was trying to do. "It's so low in its sensibility," he said of the poached egg comment. "People should not even laugh at that. Whether you like the building or not, it's an honest work of architecture. The people whose views should be taken seriously are deans of architecture schools and that sort of thing, not the common person on the street."
Ya hear that forumers? Johansen sez, "Shaddap, already." (Unless you're a dean of an architecture school. In which case, nevermind.)
jamie_hunt no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 02:59 PM   #55
jamie_hunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,921
Likes (Received): 153

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian21 View Post
[snip] Perhaps 30-40 flrs should go there. I mean the people that would live there wouldn't have much of a view except for the surrounding towers.
Right. Pretty sure the height is a function of how much parking is available underneath the Mechanic ... also would still allow people in the plaza to see landmarks such as the BoA building. Its low height is one of the Mechanic's (few) virtues; it doesn't block out the rest of the city.
jamie_hunt no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 04:27 PM   #56
30 Floors Up
Registered User
 
30 Floors Up's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 2,571
Likes (Received): 93

Baltimore Will Benefit From Expanding Government Services
Reed Construction Data Report
John Clinkard -- August 13, 2007

Baltimore’s Job Growth has been Shifting Downward Heading into the second half of 2007, the Baltimore economy is in the process of shifting gears downward. Economic activity in Baltimore’s metro area, as reflected by year-over-year employment growth, has gradually slowed from +2.0% at the beginning of 2006 to only +0.2% in June of 2007. The sectors experiencing the most marked deceleration have been manufacturing, transportation and trade, information services and construction. However, three sectors have also seen significant increases in employment over the past twelve months — education and health services, professional services and the leisure and hospitality industry.

Lowest Unemployment Rate in almost Seven Years

Despite the recent lackluster pattern of employment growth, the unemployment rate in the Baltimore metro area is at its lowest level in almost seven years. This fact suggests that employment demand in Baltimore is still relatively strong and likely to get stronger, a view supported by the most recent (third-quarter 2007) Manpower Inc employment survey. This survey reports that employers’ net hiring plans increased to 36% for the third quarter of 2007, up from 30% for the second quarter of this year and the same 30% level for the third quarter of last year.

It is interesting that job prospects appear to be particularly strong in construction, durable goods manufacturing and transportation. Looking further out, the Defense Department’s Base Realignment and Closure Program should add between ten and fifteen thousand new jobs in the region over the medium term.

A Relatively Healthy Housing Market

Although Baltimore’s housing market has corrected along with the rest of the country, existing single-family home prices were up by 4.9% in the first quarter, while they fell by 1.8% for the country as whole. Moreover, apartment vacancy rates are down slightly over the past year and average rents are up 3.5%. Taken together, these developments point to a strengthening in both single- and multi-family residential construction over the next four to eight quarters.

Positive Office Market Outlook

According to Property & Portfolio Research (PPR), the outlook for Baltimore’s office market is also positive, due to a sustained improvement in office-based employment. This stems from an expansion of government services, together with a steady rise in professional and scientific services. In the near term, the start on the Government and Technology Enterprise (GATE) project (by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers) in June will underpin office construction into 2008.
30 Floors Up no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 04:49 PM   #57
k25150
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,879
Likes (Received): 157

Hard to be excited about expanding government services.
k25150 no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 05:05 PM   #58
jpav
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 119
Likes (Received): 0

Anybody know why the Ritz is not having street level retail? Seems like those people will want to shop.

Agree with getting more than 10 floors out of the Mechanic site, at least 20. Could we at least give the Mechanic a paint job if they end up keeping it? That grey concrete looks terrible and makes the whole block look bad.
jpav no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 05:15 PM   #59
DemolitionDave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 1,126
Likes (Received): 62

I think they should have 21 floors. But thats another story...........
DemolitionDave no está en línea  
Old August 14th, 2007, 05:19 PM   #60
Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore
Registered User
 
Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 1,285
Likes (Received): 150

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie_hunt View Post
Right. Pretty sure the height is a function of how much parking is available underneath the Mechanic ... also would still allow people in the plaza to see landmarks such as the BoA building. Its low height is one of the Mechanic's (few) virtues; it doesn't block out the rest of the city.
You're right about how much parking is already below the Mechanic. The sad part is that because this project is directly over a subway station, they couldn't dig deeper to create more spaces even if they wanted to.
__________________
Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Incorporated. Founded 1908.
The First and Always The Finest
Tricia_Lvs_Baltimore no está en línea  


 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like v3.2.5 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu