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Old September 6th, 2012, 01:27 AM   #2061
Fabri88
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
There are no such problems with the Gotthard or other necessary road projects in Switzerland. A second Gotthard tube is perfectly possible, both technically and financially. The truckers pay enough tolls in Switzerland to finance a new tube every three years. A widening of several parts of the A1 is also perfectly possible.

Nobody's talking about building motorways through every valley of the Alps, but the few links that do exist are simply too weak and unreliable now. If a train was as unreliable as the Gotthard route, there would be immense political outcry over it. There is only one motorway-standard route through the Alps (Brenner Autobahn) to connect a country of 82 million and a country of 60 million with Switzerland and Austria in between, and if they like it or not, people and goods will be moved to and through them. It's much better to strengthen existing links than building new links. That includes the A2.
The fact is that, reading Swiss laws, no other roads will be built and those existing will not be developed!

So, apart from the new Gotthard tube, road situation in Switzerland will be always the same in the incoming years.

Thank God for Gotthardtunnel! Without it crossing Switzerland it would be a real challenge!
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Old September 6th, 2012, 01:36 AM   #2062
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
rail
Rail: so, as I wrote before, in Busto Arsizio, not far from Swiss Border, there's the largest intermodal terminal in Europe, the HUPAC.

The pity is that is built on a secondary rail-line, that's good for trains heading to Geneva but absolutely not for trains heading to Zürich and then to Germany, Netherlands and Denmark.

The ideal thing to do is to build up a good rail line connecting Busto Arsizio - Gallarate - Varese and then to Mendrisio.

In Italy we're prolonging the A8 to Gaggiolo (the first Italian town after Stabio, located in Ticino). It would be a good thing to let the Stabio/Gaggiolo border become a very important border in order to split traffic between Stabio/Gaggiolo and Chiasso/Como border.

Linking the province of Varese to the so called "Mendrisiotto" with rail and new motorway it's a real good thing to do!

This is only for trucks.

Talking about people I think no one will spend 138 CHF for a return ticket Mendrisio - Zürich. That's a crazy price!
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Old September 6th, 2012, 01:38 AM   #2063
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When I first drove through it in the summer of 2000, I didn't even know it was the longest road tunnel in the world.
And the hottest (38°C) too!!!
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:46 AM   #2064
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Originally Posted by Fabri88 View Post
The ideal thing to do is to build up a good rail line connecting Busto Arsizio - Gallarate - Varese and then to Mendrisio.
It is under construction, but nimbys and environmentalists will prevent its use by freight trains, even if that line would be very useful to access Busto intermodal terminal (in alternative to the single track Luino line).

By the way Mendrisio-Zürich return is 130 CHF full fare, 65 CHF half fare (and every Swiss who make more than two trip a year use uses this latter tariff).
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Old September 6th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #2065
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By the way Mendrisio-Zürich return is 130 CHF full fare, 65 CHF half fare (and every Swiss who make more than two trip a year use uses this latter tariff).
The problems with rail prices is also scaling. If you're a family of four, the trip Mendrisio-Zürich will cost you 4x65 CHF = 260 CHF.

The same trip (444 km) will cost you about 65 CHF in fuel for your car. I'm refusing now to include stuff like insurance, taxes and depreciation into the cost as only people who already have a car will consider the alternative. The added cost to the family budget will consequently come down to the fuel cost plus some added wear of the car. And it will cost you that amount of money irrespective of the number of people you take, thus for car-owners, as soon as two or more people are going, the car gets you there cheaper.

Furthermore, the train is only an alternative on stretches with good connections, e.g., from Zurich to Lugano or from St. Gallen to Bern. If you now want to go from, let's say, Dübendorf to Heerbrugg, the S-Bahn trains and connections will cost you a lot of time. And delays on any segment will screw up the whole journey.

So on well-connected lines, I would always take the train, but the rail system is not the answer to every mobility demand - it simply cannot be as it only connects points and never can give system access to a whole stretch in the way a road can. Which is an inherent property of railways.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 10:03 PM   #2066
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The problems with rail prices is also scaling. If you're a family of four, the trip Mendrisio-Zürich will cost you 4x65 CHF = 260 CHF.
No, because children up to 16 years don't pay when they travel with their parents or grand-parents (beside a pass which costs 20 CHF a year), so this family would pay 130 CHF.

However the price is not a problem (now), as since 2004 rail traffic rose by ~35% in passengers*km, so now the problem usually is not to attract passengers, but transport them as on many lines they are just too many.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 10:32 PM   #2067
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http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/sto...asten-27388739

They want to build a new motorway parallel to a part of A1 in northern Zürich, mostly underground.



I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do though, sounds like a lot of money for just 6 kilometer of new motorway basically only 1 - 2 km from the existing motorway. I think the two-lane connectors and that weird split near Wallisellen are the main cause of congestion. There are some 2x4 sections between interchanges but it doesn't really add that much capacity, it just smoothes weaving.

I'm wondering if a Baden - Winterthur motorway (further north) isn't a better idea. That way you can bypass the Zürich area completely.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 10:45 PM   #2068
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I'm wondering if a Baden - Winterthur motorway (further north) isn't a better idea. That way you can bypass the Zürich area completely.
I think that's a good idea. It would also ease access to the airport for people coming from the east or west. I guess the NIMBYies would block a new 30-35 kilometer motorway, no matter how needed or sensible it may be.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 10:53 PM   #2069
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This is what I don't like about this forum: people living far away, who may not even have been in a particular area, but for sure not commuting there on a daily basis, commenting about proposals, and already having a go at so called nimby's, and commenting on the bad or good aspects. I'm sure that local planners and the local population will have a better view on this then people living hundreds of miles away in an entire different country. Even the ones that would oppose such a project, for its not up to any of us outsiders who have no business in that area, to judge what would be best for a particular district. If any of us would drive there, we would be guests only, and not in a position to judge. Let the Swiss on here comment on this, and let us outsiders ask questions out of interest.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 10:59 PM   #2070
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This is what I don't like about this forum: people living far away, who may not even have been in a particular area, but for sure not commuting there on a daily basis, commenting about proposals, and already having a go at so called nimby's, and commenting on the bad or good aspects. I'm sure that local planners and the local population will have a better view on this then people living hundreds of miles away in an entire different country. Even the ones that would oppose such a project, for its not up to any of us outsiders who have no business in that area, to judge what would be best for a particular district. If any of us would drive there, we would be guests only, and not in a position to judge. Let the Swiss on here comment on this, and let us outsiders ask questions out of interest.
This is a forum. You might wanna look up the definition of this word. Besides, locals may express their opinions as well.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #2071
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My home language is English, I know what a forum is.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:01 PM   #2072
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If you have any problems with people discussing plans, you're better off without an internet forum.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:06 PM   #2073
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This is not the only forum I'm using, I'm just having a problem with people who can look and judge from a thousand miles away, and already comment on nimbys who haven't shown their face yet. Got a lot of people around me agreeing with me right now. Bunch of Austrians, Brits and German, one of them is an architect. One with diplomas.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #2074
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Got a lot of people around me agreeing with me right now. Bunch of Austrians, Brits and German, one of them is an architect. One with diplomas.
I say hi.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:13 PM   #2075
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One says hi back in Slovenian.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:20 PM   #2076
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Must be a Kärntner.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:21 PM   #2077
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I think that's a good idea. It would also ease access to the airport for people coming from the east or west. I guess the NIMBYies would block a new 30-35 kilometer motorway, no matter how needed or sensible it may be.
You will rarely see nimbys protesting in Switzerland (except against nuclear power plants), however appeals in tribunal against public work are common (but don't last too much if a project is approved by voters).
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Old September 6th, 2012, 11:27 PM   #2078
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Must be a Kärntner.
English, involved in some seminar to be organised in Slovenia in October.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:20 AM   #2079
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The project does make a lot of sense to me, notice the new route would connect the A1 going to Baden with the A1 going to Winterthur, leaving the existing part for people who go to and from Zurich via the Hardbrücke and Milchbucktunnel and also giving vehicles from Winterthur and Baden the alternative of going to the airport without mixing with the traffic going to Zurich, and it's the shortest and therefore least expensive way of doing all that.

In fact the Zurich government has agreed to the proposal.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 12:23 AM   #2080
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If you have any problems with people discussing plans, you're better off without an internet forum.
Exactly!

SSC serves to widen our horizons.
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