daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old September 26th, 2012, 12:30 AM   #2101
Ni3lS
Moderator
 
Ni3lS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Stuttgart
Posts: 16,467
Likes (Received): 3441

Another shot I took back in august. Forgot to post it

image hosted on flickr

GOTTHARDPASS by NielsKristianPhotography, on Flickr
__________________
MY SHOWCASE
FLICKR / MY TRAVELS:
[2016] > Norway, Valencia, Arvidsjaur, Innsbruck, Moselvalley, Geneva, Lisbon, Basel, Vosges, Munich, Trieste, Barcelona, Nürburgring, Frankfurt, Spa, Berlin, Wuppertal, Dortmund, Como, Monaco, Saint-Tropez, Tegernsee, Hamburg, Lübeck, Madrid, Stuttgart, Faro, Hochgurgl
[2017] > Düsseldorf, Mallorca, Geneva, Annecy, Montafon, Vorarlberg, Barcelona, Zürich, Crete, Lisbon, Cascais, Málaga, Ronda, Dolomiti, Sistiana, Kitzbühel
Ni3lS no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 25th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #2102
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Here is another option for the A2 Lugano-Mendrisio. There would be a third Grancia tunnel with two lanes, with bidirectional traffic in the central one of the existing tubes (I suppose the today's northbound one). The bridge-dam over the lake would be enlarged, while a new three-lane tunnel would be built between Bissone and Maroggia for northbound traffic (roughly 3 km long). The existing northbound carriageway would be enlarged to 3 lanes for southbound traffic (including the 600 m San Nicolao tunnel), while the actual southbound carriageway would host the cantonal road replacing the section through the villages (which has an AADT of around 12.000). The new and extremely ugly noise barriers in Bissone would have to be demolished at least partially. It is unlikely that anything will happen before 2030-2040.

Position on Google Maps: https://maps.google.ch/?ll=45.943391...38581&t=m&z=15

[IMG]http://i50.************/2wbusd1.jpg[/IMG]
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 10:59 AM   #2103
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Another truck fire in the Gotthard tunnel a few hours ago, after another one on the 20th October. Good reasons to ban them all



20-12-2012: http://www.cdt.ch/confederazione/cro...-gottardo.html



25-12-2012: http://www.cdt.ch/ticino-e-regioni/c...-gottardo.html
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #2104
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,604
Likes (Received): 19391

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Good reasons to ban them all
I assume all your food is grown in your yard, and you never go to the supermarket or store to buy groceries that were brought there by those awful Alps-destroying trucks. In fact, I believe Italians buy extra stuff to get more trucks through Switzerland.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #2105
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

This is why the Swiss and Austrians have come up with the idea of RoRo trains. (with help from the Italians)
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 07:28 PM   #2106
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
This is why the Swiss and Austrians have come up with the idea of RoRo trains. (with help from the Italians)
There is nowhere near the capacity for Swiss railways to accommodate not even 15% of its long-tunnel truck traffic on rails without severely compromising the passenger trains paths'. It is an impossibility. Even with Gotthard + Ceneri tunnels.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #2107
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist

There is nowhere near the capacity for Swiss railways to accommodate not even 15% of its long-tunnel truck traffic on rails without severely compromising the passenger trains paths'. It is an impossibility. Even with Gotthard + Ceneri tunnels.
Perhaps not, but every little bit helps.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 08:03 PM   #2108
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Perhaps not, but every little bit helps.
Without any disruption to passenger traffic, there is very limited capacity for tunnel-replacement RO-RO services in Switzerland. Let's remember CH has many long tunnels for which no rail replacement exists such as San Bernardino, Grand San Bernardo etc.

Moreover, and very importantly, there is no capacity to run RO-RO trains across Zurich for instance, to avoid trucks using the bypass tunnels.

And even if the railways had paths available, dozens of loading/unloading terminals would be needed. Even if the process is optimized, it would put a strain on time-sensitive cargo, which is pretty much everything these days where Just-In-Time rules manufacturing.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #2109
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
This is why the Swiss and Austrians have come up with the idea of RoRo trains. (with help from the Italians)
There is not that much help from Italy - in fact, when Switzerland proposed to create a small loading station in the existing freight yard in Domodossola, Italy refused. Switzerland is also planning to loan (but it might end with a gift) money to Italy to enlarge loading gauge on its lines and to build new terminals in Italy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
There is nowhere near the capacity for Swiss railways to accommodate not even 15% of its long-tunnel truck traffic on rails without severely compromising the passenger trains paths'. It is an impossibility. Even with Gotthard + Ceneri tunnels.
Swiss rail infrastructure will be able to handle at least 350 freight trains a day by 2019 (at all the three main standard gauge border stations with Italy). Using containers or rail wagons (or at least semitrailers without the tractor) instead of carrying entire trucks there would be enough capacity. Anyway there is no plan to increase RoRo trains.

(the exact figures I have found are 110 paths a day on the Simplon-Lötschberg and 240 on the Gotthard, or 3 and 6 per hour per direction, which could be increased with more infrastructure - all that in addition to passenger traffic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Moreover, and very importantly, there is no capacity to run RO-RO trains across Zurich for instance, to avoid trucks using the bypass tunnels.
Most rail freight traffic from the north enters Switzerland via Basel, not transiting from Zürich.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 08:54 PM   #2110
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Swiss rail infrastructure will be able to handle at least 350 freight trains a day by 2019 (at all the three main standard gauge border stations with Italy). Using containers or rail wagons (or at least semitrailers without the tractor) instead of carrying entire trucks there would be enough capacity. Anyway there is no plan to increase RoRo trains.
A lot of truck traffic on CH road tunnels is local (not Germany <=> Italy long haul).

They are building, for the good and the evil, infrastructure to deal with long haul traffic with origins and destinations outside CH. However, even the fastest truck-to-flat-rail-car transshipment yard would still take a very long time comparing to the actual driving time. And it doesn't solve the problem of intra-CH transport.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 09:16 PM   #2111
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Germany-Italy mostly uses Brenner. That way there is no freight to declare at customs. In vans we have always avoided Switzerland transit when loaded for that very reason, and use Brenner or Mont Blanc instead.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2012, 09:44 PM   #2112
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
A lot of truck traffic on CH road tunnels is local (not Germany <=> Italy long haul).
In 2008, all axes (A21-A9-A2-A13):
Tonnes: 14,4 millions road, 8,1 road transit, 25.5 rail, 21.6 rail transit
Trucks: 1.275.000 total, 707.000 transit (or 55%)

Non transit rail traffic includes import, export, and also short services like Aarau-Lugano (containers only) or Basel-Lugano (a single Ro-Ro train a day, the only such train on the Gotthard).

Although I like the principle of "transit truck ban" or "650.000 trucks limit" I don't think they should be applied at any cost, but I agree that rail should be improved as much as possible. So provided that it's possible to increase freight trains (which is not the case now) if the total of trucks is 650.000 or 1.300.000 doesn't bother me (if it is not much higher than now...).
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2012, 01:36 AM   #2113
Corvinus
License plate spotter
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: H / D / CH
Posts: 1,058
Likes (Received): 1190

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I assume all your food is grown in your yard, and you never go to the supermarket or store to buy groceries that were brought there by those awful Alps-destroying trucks. In fact, I believe Italians buy extra stuff to get more trucks through Switzerland.
LOL once I read on the rear of a German truck on the Autobahn, "as long as apples and pears cannot be sent by e-mail, we will have to share the road"
Corvinus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2012, 02:27 AM   #2114
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvinus
LOL once I read on the rear of a German truck on the Autobahn, "as long as apples and pears cannot be sent by e-mail, we will have to share the road"
Another one on a German truck: when you roll your own cheese from Holland, I won't be in your way any longer.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2012, 02:28 AM   #2115
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,244
Likes (Received): 780

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
This is why the Swiss and Austrians have come up with the idea of RoRo trains. (with help from the Italians)
Whazzat?
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2012, 02:31 AM   #2116
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Entire trucks transported on trains.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2012, 02:32 AM   #2117
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Whazzat?
Schemes to move trucks loaded onto low-flat train cars moving between Novara and Manheim; Verona and Salzburg.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2012, 02:54 AM   #2118
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist

Schemes to move trucks loaded onto low-flat train cars moving between Novara and Manheim; Verona and Salzburg.
Verona - Wörgl. Not Salzburg. RoRo stands for roll on roll off, and applies to ferries as well.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2012, 10:43 AM   #2119
Attus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rheinbach
Posts: 2,766
Likes (Received): 1039

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Entire trucks transported on trains.
Until now I thought it is RoLa. What's the difference then between RoRo and RoLa?
Attus no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2012, 11:22 AM   #2120
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

RoLa is the acronym for Rollende Landstrasse (in German), while RoRo is a naval acronym for roll on/roll off.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
schweiz

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium