daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old February 3rd, 2013, 03:55 PM   #2241
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

Your chances of being caught on a short stretch are not that high anyway. I'd estimate there is better than 50/50 chance of not being caught crossing the entire Switzerland on autobahn.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:01 PM   #2242
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Sometimes they check all cars at the border for having a vignette.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:11 PM   #2243
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 643
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
No, because you can still buy it on the border.
Even if I do buy it at the border, I still have to pay 40 CHF, and it feels like a penalty for a 50 metre-stretch.

I don't blame the Swiss for making laws like this (actually I am a big fan of the Swiss political system and direct democracy, but that's another topic...)

I might, however, blame them (or the French) a little for not warning about this. "Douane" is not a warning. It tells there is customs (well of course there is, entering a foreign country and all). It doesn't tell anything about the vignette. There's not even the word "Péage" that they use on their own motorways.

As seen in the picture from Germany above, it wouldn't be too much to ask.
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:27 PM   #2244
eeee.
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zürich / Kyiv
Posts: 1,072
Likes (Received): 1168

Just inform yourself before you enter a country and nothing will happen. Can't see any problem.
eeee. no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:31 PM   #2245
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

And in any case if you aren't driving further than Basel there are 4 non-motorway border crossings with France and 6 with Germany in the immediate area.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:36 PM   #2246
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeee. View Post
Just inform yourself before you enter a country and nothing will happen. Can't see any problem.
Ideally, that is what people would do. However people are rather ignorant these days and with the surge in GPS navigation fewer and fewer people are thoroughly preparing their trip in advance. My younger brother is going to drive to Italy in two weeks for work and I told him he had to get a vignette for Austria. He told me that if I didn't tell him about it, he would have just driven without vignette (and likely gotten a well-deserved fine).

People like that are not well-informed and also have no wish to do so. It's the "just go and see what happens" and "why would things be different than in my country" mentality.

I wonder if the number of fines for not having a vignette has surged in the past 7 years or so since GPS units became affordable.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:37 PM   #2247
cougar1989
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Greiz (D)
Posts: 127
Likes (Received): 103

What I only found is that sign on the border if your come from the A35.fr
__________________
Was in: A B CH CZ D F FL H HR I L NL PL SK SLO
Drove in: A B CH CZ D F FL H HR I L NL PL SK SLO
my Radio Transmitter Pictures
cougar1989 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:43 PM   #2248
vatse
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tartu
Posts: 820
Likes (Received): 729

On borders of French and German motorways to Basel there is at least 90% change that they stop you and you have to buy a vignette. I have never seen an empty border post at these places and they are mostly checking about vignettes.
If you enter Switzerland at some small border post and later drive along motorways without vignette it's a different thing but on borders at motorways they are ready to stop you anytime.
Switzerland is not the only country needing vignette for motorways. You need these when entering to Czech Republic and Slovakia on motorways or even Austria. And when you enter these countries on motorway you just have to buy this vignette or you have to know about rules at different countries to avoid this.
vatse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 04:49 PM   #2249
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 643
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeee. View Post
Just inform yourself before you enter a country and nothing will happen. Can't see any problem.
Well of course. That's what I am doing right here and now, and what a great forum this is allowing me to do so. So this won't be a problem for me.

However, there are lots of people out there who don't know the existence of this forum, don't know how to use Google maps and so on... They can still drive perfectly well if they have a rough idea of geography and can read the destinations written along the roads. Big and even average cities such as Basel aren't really too hard to find, even when arriving from a foreign country. And these people also understand the traffic signs (pretty much the same all through Europe).

What I'm saying: in my humble opinion, these people should somehow be given the idea that they are about to lose 40 CHF; and this idea should be given early enough so that they could avoid it.
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 05:09 PM   #2250
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Avoid what? Driving through Switzerland?
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 05:18 PM   #2251
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,460
Likes (Received): 2186

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK
Avoid what? Driving through Switzerland?
There are several reason to avoid CH:
- expensive vignette
- custom checks if you have a lot of cigs, booze,...
- they often stop vans and autocaravans and weigh them (they cannot be more than 3,500kg).
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 05:39 PM   #2252
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 643
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Avoid what? Driving through Switzerland?
Avoid driving any tolled road.

In France, for instance, you can't enter a tolled motorway without seeing the word péage in the signs. Although Norway and Sweden with their coin symbols are even better.
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2013, 07:08 PM   #2253
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,245
Likes (Received): 781

Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post
....
However, there are lots of people out there who don't know the existence of this forum, don't know how to use Google maps and so on....
Makes you wonder how people managed in the Dark Ages, before Internet forums and Google Maps....
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2013, 09:52 AM   #2254
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post

There are several reason to avoid CH:
- expensive vignette
- custom checks if you have a lot of cigs, booze,...
- they often stop vans and autocaravans and weigh them (they cannot be more than 3,500kg).
Vignette is not that expensive. 40€ entitles you to drive there for one year. You pay more on certain routes in France. I never got stopped in my van to get it weight, I did in other countries like France, UK, Germany and Spain. And you can only bring or transit a certain amount of cigarettes, alcohol and fuel within any EU country. Nothing new there. I got done once on the Belgian-French border for bringing too many cigs. And customs can still stop you at any border within the EU. Especially the French and Germans are likely too stop you not only at borders but even along major transit routes. I got stopped for example at Lyon, Rouen, Mannheim, Hannover, Bordeaux etc etc

Can't believe drama people make to avoid a vignette. You either want to use their motorways or you don't.

Just want to edit / add that we only avoid Switzerland when wanting to transit to Italy loaded. Not worth the hassle with paperwork, so we divert through Brenner or Mont Blanc instead. Empty we go through Switzerland. Faster and cheaper. We already got the vignette.

Last edited by Road_UK; February 4th, 2013 at 10:04 AM.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2013, 09:55 AM   #2255
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by OulaL View Post

Avoid driving any tolled road.

In France, for instance, you can't enter a tolled motorway without seeing the word péage in the signs. Although Norway and Sweden with their coin symbols are even better.
Well then walk or take the train if you don't want to drive to Paris. Bon voyage.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2013, 11:15 AM   #2256
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 643
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Well then walk or take the train if you don't want to drive to Paris. Bon voyage.
It's perfectly possible to drive to Paris without using toll motorways. (Although it's probably not signposted. I'm not sure.)

But that's really not the point here.

I just feel it's wrong to charge penalty-like fees from people 1) who have done absolutely nothing wrong and 2) without telling them in advance that they are subject to such fees. And yes, 40 CHF for a 50-metre drive is penalty-like.

This is about the concept of a contract. A contract is supposed to be voluntary. For a contract to be voluntary, its conditions should be known to each party before an agreement is made. A party should have an option to refuse the contract after one has become aware of the conditions and before the other party has fulfilled its part.

Let's say you eat in a restaurant. The contract is made at the moment you order your food. Before that, you are given a chance to study the menu and the prices. If you feel that the prices are too high, you have the right to refuse from ordering and leave. In this case, you shouldn't need to pay. And if you are given something you didn't order, then they shouldn't charge you for that either. (A pity that some restaurants actually do that, though.)

Back to the motorway. The parties of the contract are the motorist and the Swiss Confederation. The contract involves the right to use the motorways and the obligation to pay for it. In practice, the agreement is made at the moment when the motorist chooses not to exit the motorway in Saint-Louis (or to enter the motorway in Saint-Louis), because after that point the motorist has no legal possibility to refuse the contract. But the problem is that at this point the motorist is not aware of the conditions of the contract, and that makes it something else but voluntary.

It really wouldn't take much. As seen in this thread, the signage is very clear when approaching Basel from the German side. All I'm wondering is why it isn't so on the French side.
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #2257
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

I don't get your point. Tolls are applied either through vignettes, registrations or toll booths. If you use toll roads without paying tolls you are breaking the law. And don't buy a vignette if you're only using it for 50 metres, but use a different route.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2013, 01:11 PM   #2258
vatse
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tartu
Posts: 820
Likes (Received): 729

Not 100% sure but maybe they let you turn around at some border posts if you arrive to border and find out that you have to pay for road to continue. No one can force you to enter the country if you explain them that you have made a wrong choice at last exit and want to turn back to France, Italy whatever. I haven't tried it.
At least there are border posts at all motorways entering Switzerland. When you enter Czech Republic on some new motorway built after Schengen there are no border post at all, only the sign telling that you need a vignette to continue and if you don't buy at first possible place police will stop you for sure. When travelling to other countries you just have to know local traffic rules, road taxes and so on. I'm pretty sure that most of travelers driving to France don't have an alcometre at their cars but they still have to pay a fine if police is asking for that. And there are no signs on roads entering France giving all the necessary equipment needed at your car. If you want to avoid problems you will find out these simple things before the trip and if you don't do it you'll find these out during a trip.
vatse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2013, 05:46 PM   #2259
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Once I made a mistake and accidentally drove into France, so I turned left here, back to Switzerland.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 4th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #2260
OulaL
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jämsä
Posts: 643
Likes (Received): 121

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I don't get your point. Tolls are applied either through vignettes, registrations or toll booths. If you use toll roads without paying tolls you are breaking the law. And don't buy a vignette if you're only using it for 50 metres, but use a different route.
This is my final try to clarify my point.

At the time you get informed about the vignette requirement and price, you cannot use a different route, since that would involve a U-turn on a motorway. I'm pretty sure that's forbidden by the French as well as the Swiss law.

EDIT: Or is it? Judging from the last messages, it actually seems possible in this very case...
OulaL no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
schweiz

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium