daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 4th, 2014, 09:53 PM   #2661
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

http://goo.gl/maps/O0Ysb
__________________
take a ride on slovenian highways

cinxxx, RipleyLV, earthJoker liked this post
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 6th, 2014, 10:12 PM   #2662
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Some videos from Swiss state television, in French. I have seen only the third one for now, I liked it, but I cannot judge the others.

The Great St Bernard tunnel, in a video from 1962:

http://www.rts.ch/archives/tv/divers...des-alpes.html

Then the Mont Blanc tunnel, also in 1962:

http://www.rts.ch/archives/tv/divers...ont-blanc.html

The first proposals for the Gotthard base tunnel, in a video from 1972:

http://www.rts.ch/archives/tv/inform...l-de-base.html

Finally, a description of some rail coaches with rubber wheels instead of steel wheels. They had to reduce their weight from 30 to 13 tonnes, but even witht his reduction, they needed two bogies with 5 axles each instead of just two for heavier coaches with steel wheels.

http://www.rts.ch/archives/tv/inform...s-a-pneus.html
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Deadeye Reloaded, Vaud liked this post

Last edited by Coccodrillo; July 6th, 2014 at 11:26 PM.
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 22nd, 2014, 02:41 PM   #2663
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21240

I have two questions regarding operations near the Gotthard road tunnel:

1- Suppose that for some reason a driver from Göschenen wants to take the tunnel southbound. If there is congestion on A2 before the tunnel, what is the procedure adopted there? Are drivers coming from there allowed to enter the tunnel on this junction? Is this junction closed and drivers forced to drive all the way up to Wessen before turning south?

2- Do they close the old Gotthard route (Bartola-Tremola) when the road pass is congested or heavily trafficked, or are you allowed to drive through it all the time?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2014, 10:08 PM   #2664
cougar1989
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Greiz (D)
Posts: 127
Likes (Received): 103

Last week I made a little roadtrip, here are the pictures























__________________
Was in: A B CH CZ D F FL H HR I L NL PL SK SLO
Drove in: A B CH CZ D F FL H HR I L NL PL SK SLO
my Radio Transmitter Pictures

Road_UK, SRC_100, Moravian, Luki_SL liked this post
cougar1989 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 23rd, 2014, 10:11 PM   #2665
cougar1989
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Greiz (D)
Posts: 127
Likes (Received): 103

2x post, del please
__________________
Was in: A B CH CZ D F FL H HR I L NL PL SK SLO
Drove in: A B CH CZ D F FL H HR I L NL PL SK SLO
my Radio Transmitter Pictures
cougar1989 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2014, 11:19 AM   #2666
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I have two questions regarding operations near the Gotthard road tunnel:

1- Suppose that for some reason a driver from Göschenen wants to take the tunnel southbound. If there is congestion on A2 before the tunnel, what is the procedure adopted there? Are drivers coming from there allowed to enter the tunnel on this junction? Is this junction closed and drivers forced to drive all the way up to Wessen before turning south?

2- Do they close the old Gotthard route (Bartola-Tremola) when the road pass is congested or heavily trafficked, or are you allowed to drive through it all the time?
1) When the queue is longer than a certain amount, the junctions before the tunnel where the queue is are closed. So not only Göschenen, sometimes also Wassen, and the same happens on the other side.

2) I don't know, but I don't think so. The pass road is rarely congested, as most people prefer to wait hours in queue...
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2014, 04:21 PM   #2667
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21240

Grimsel, Gotthard and Simplon are the very best mountain roads in Europe above 2000m, but whereas many are comfortable planning routes through Simplon, they assume the Gotthard route is something like a Giro dItalia track.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2014, 04:30 PM   #2668
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,603
Likes (Received): 19391

I think many people who have the Gotthard Pass as an alternate route in mind realize too late they need to exit, so they are stuck in traffic anyways. Also, many caravan drivers are not experienced in mountain driving and are too scared to take the pass. Note that the far majority of drivers are not as informed about the roads as we are.

But there was some construction on the pass between Göschenen and Andermatt, which led to long delays. Maybe not as long as the tunnel queue, but delays of over 30 minutes were reported at the Baustelle.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2014, 05:46 PM   #2669
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21240

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I think many people who have the Gotthard Pass as an alternate route in mind realize too late they need to exit, so they are stuck in traffic anyways.
What happened to real-time GPS navigation apps? A regular Garmin or TomTom unit (or app) should be able to warn the driver, in time, that there is a much faster route via the pass.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2014, 09:35 AM   #2670
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Note that the far majority of drivers are not as informed about the roads as we are.
Yes, but you don't have to be a road fanatic to look at a map...a quick search with Google Maps' route calculator would be enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
But there was some construction on the pass between Göschenen and Andermatt, which led to long delays. Maybe not as long as the tunnel queue, but delays of over 30 minutes were reported at the Baustelle.
Because ASTRA though it was a good idea to continue working on peak days. When they discovered that these works clogged up also the pass road, they decided to avoid working on peak days as much as possible in the future.

The Schöllenen works will last until 2019, together with the refurbishment of the pass road (which has to be done before the closure of the Gotthard tunnel).

More info here: http://www.schöllenen.ch/

***********************

Here are some scanned documents about what was planned to be the future of the Gotthard link, both rail and road, published around 1963. They are in German and Italian.

http://www.alexandria.admin.ch/AT1.htm
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Last edited by Coccodrillo; July 27th, 2014 at 09:47 AM.
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2014, 11:53 PM   #2671
Des
Traveller
 
Des's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MUC
Posts: 2,438
Likes (Received): 806

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
before the closure of the Gotthard tunnel
They plan on closing it?! :S
__________________
Car News
Des no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2014, 11:57 PM   #2672
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Unlikely. You don't want to cut off TI from the civil world...

(by the way, I am missing my ally in the Ukraine thread)
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2014, 04:40 PM   #2673
Samply
Registered User
 
Samply's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Varese, Plymouth
Posts: 96
Likes (Received): 23

http://www.tcs.ch/de/auto-mobilitaet...t-gotthard.php
Yes the Gotthard will be closed for a while.
BTW as the Gotthard base tunnel will be open by then, could that not be an option?
Samply no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2014, 04:52 PM   #2674
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,457
Likes (Received): 2185

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Unlikely. You don't want to cut off TI from the civil world...
Yes, south of Chiasso begins the Amazon forest.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Road_UK liked this post
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2014, 05:00 PM   #2675
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21240

I think the plans is to build a 2nd tube before closing the major one

Quote:
Il Consiglio federale, dopo studi approfonditi delle diverse varianti di risanamento, ha deciso di optare per la costruzione di un secondo tubo senza aumento della capacità. Il relativo progetto di legge, dopo la procedura di consultazione (dicembre 2012 - aprile 2013), è attualmente al vaglio dalle Camere federali. Un eventuale voto popolare è previsto per il 2015.

Il Consiglio di Stato ritiene che la costruzione di un secondo tubo costituisca la miglior soluzione per ragioni finanziarie, tecniche, economiche, di viabilità, di sicurezza e di coesione nazionale. Esso sostiene quindi con forza il progetto del Consiglio federale, come anche il perseguimento deciso e parallelo della politica di trasferimento delle merci dalla strada su rotaia.
Source

"The Federal Council, after in-depth studies on the diverse alternatives for refurbishing, decided to choose for the construction of a second bore without capacity increase".
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2014, 05:29 PM   #2676
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,457
Likes (Received): 2185

And after works are completed, one of the two tubes will be closed anyway, since two tubes are incompatible with crazy Swiss laws. If they think that long queues of standing smoking vehicles are very good for the environment...
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2014, 06:03 PM   #2677
Sunfuns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 2,426
Likes (Received): 361

The hope, futile in my opinion, is that people will simply choose not to go. Or take a train instead. Train is going to gain some extra share after GBT is opened, but still it's a preferred option only if you want to go to Lugano/Locarno or Milan. Any destination away from the main train route is still reached faster and more conveniently by driving.
Sunfuns no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2014, 06:14 PM   #2678
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,457
Likes (Received): 2185

It's unrealistic to think that it's better to keep old bad roads to prevent people from driving. It's better to build the second tube: it won't spoil the mountain since it's underground and it will reduce congestion, thus pollution. Increasing capacity doesn't necessarily increases AADT, since people usually don't drive for fun. Train is competitive with cars only for travels between centers of major towns served by the railway. Every travel that involves changing more than 2 trains\buses is usually faster by car (except inside very congested urban areas where parking is scarce and expensive). People travelling from Zurich to Lugano may considering taking a train, those going from a village in Zurich canton to another in Ticino canton, won't.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2014, 04:24 PM   #2679
mcarling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,605
Likes (Received): 491

My understanding is that both tubes will stay open, but will be restricted to one lane per tube.
mcarling no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2014, 05:29 PM   #2680
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21240

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
My understanding is that both tubes will stay open, but will be restricted to one lane per tube.
Exactly.

I quite like the solution, for which it creates the physical infrastructure needed should a later referendum approve the opening of the tunnel on a 2x2 configuration, after all rail projects are completed and all older pre'-Euro 5 vehicles are essentially phased out.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!

mcarling liked this post
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
schweiz

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium