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Old August 15th, 2014, 02:26 PM   #2721
mcarling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Des View Post
But if I look at traffic volumes on the A4 between Zug and Zurich there is not that much traffic even on peak Gotthard days. I think most Gotthard traffic is heading for Basel and not for Zurich so expanding the route east of Lake Lucerne might not bring much relief for the A2.
True, but people going to Germany may have options. Now via Basel might be better than via Zurich for some that would change if the better route via Zurich would become available.
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Old August 18th, 2014, 06:52 PM   #2722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
An alternative to upgrading the A2 at Lucerne would be providing a better (and more direct) route between the Gotthard Road Tunnel and Zurich east of Lake Lucerne in order to bypass Lucerne.
An autostrasse is planned along the Axen, with two tunnels (Morschacher and Sisikoner), but not entirely, as a 3 km gap will remain in place: http://goo.gl/maps/5WZAL

See these old posts:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...&postcount=840

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=2355

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
True, but people going to Germany may have options. Now via Basel might be better than via Zurich for some that would change if the better route via Zurich would become available.
The existing Axenstrasse is not that bad and it is quite short, so going via Lucerne because the Axenstrasse is not a motorway is not a valid argument for me (but might it be for tourists scared of windy mountain roads?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichiH View Post
If the A2 at Luzern is already congested it should be upgraded anyway.
That's planned, but unlikely in the short term (before 2030). All not already financed road projects are dependant on the result of the referendum on the planned new road fund (called NAF/FORTA/FOSTRA). If it is approved then many road projects will go on, if not, everything will be delayed. Curiously, road associations are opposing it (mainly because the fund would include a 12/15 cent increase on fuel price, a litre of fuel now costing around 1.70 to 1.95 CHF).

The vignette increase was refused some time ago, again thanks to the road lobby, and that delayed some projects even more.

It is not sure there will be a referendum, but it is likely, and it should be around 2016/2017.
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Old August 18th, 2014, 06:58 PM   #2723
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Switzerland could afford much more road improvement projects if they would funnel the truck toll into roads like other countries do. In Austria and Slovakia, 65-75% of toll revenue is from trucks, so this is a major source of 'user fees' for road projects.
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Old August 18th, 2014, 07:45 PM   #2724
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The Swiss like trains a lot, so truck tolls will continue to go to railways (and to cantons by one third). That use was accepted by referendum around 15 years ago, and reapproved again last February with the new rail fund.

This is unlikely to change, that's why IMHO Switzerland has the most rail-friendly and road-unfriendly road lobby in the world (consciously or not: officially, road lobbies supports both modes, but mainly roads).
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Old August 18th, 2014, 07:46 PM   #2725
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Chris

I can tell you haven't been driving in Switzerland lately. One set of roadworks after the other, not to mention tunnel tube closures everywhere. How much more do they have to spend?
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Old August 19th, 2014, 08:29 PM   #2726
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I found train tickets in Switzerland enormously expensive...
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Old August 19th, 2014, 11:18 PM   #2727
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I found train tickets in Switzerland enormously expensive...
You probably paid full price. Very few locals do...
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Old August 20th, 2014, 12:11 AM   #2728
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I found train tickets in Switzerland enormously expensive...
Full-priced tickets are expensive, even for 2nd class.

A Halbtax-Abonnement at CHF 175 per year allows for half-priced tickets. That is, if you expect to buy tickets worth at least CHF 350 over a year, the Halbtax is for you.

Train commuters may go for a General-Abonnement ("GA") at CHF 3'500/yr (for 2nd class) or ca. CHF 6'000/yr (for 1st class). Those allow unlimited travel on most means of public transport (trains, tramways, buses, funiculars, and - partially - ships). Not included are specialities like cable lifts, ski lifts and suchlike, or parking at the train station. The GA also includes some connections across the border: to Livigno, Domodossola, Singen, Pontarlier or Liechtenstein.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 11:49 AM   #2729
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
You probably paid full price. Very few locals do...
That does not help me if I am one of the few. And full price tickets ARE very expensive here.

Example:
Switzerland
Zurich -> Meisterschwanden AG -> Zurich return ticket CHF 51.60, 36 km.

Austria
Bregenz -> Laterns -> Bregenz return Ticket EUR 10.50, 37 km.

Similar level of service on both journeys...
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Old August 20th, 2014, 12:05 PM   #2730
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3500 CHF for a yearly ticket? Wow, it's like two full month wages for me...
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Old August 20th, 2014, 12:36 PM   #2731
eeee.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rower2000 View Post
That does not help me if I am one of the few. And full price tickets ARE very expensive here.

Example:
Switzerland
Zurich -> Meisterschwanden AG -> Zurich return ticket CHF 51.60, 36 km.

Austria
Bregenz -> Laterns -> Bregenz return Ticket EUR 10.50, 37 km.

Similar level of service on both journeys...
A Zurich -> Meisterschwanden -> Zurich day ticket (24 h) doesn't cost CHF 51.60 but 34.80. And you can use it how often you want to - not only "there and back". For trains, trams, buses, boats.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 02:03 PM   #2732
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Originally Posted by eeee. View Post
A Zurich -> Meisterschwanden -> Zurich day ticket (24 h) doesn't cost CHF 51.60 but 34.80. And you can use it how often you want to - not only "there and back". For trains, trams, buses, boats.
You're right - the first option I got in the online ticket shop was via Lenzburg - Seon instead of Lenzburg - Wohlen, this comes out at 51.60 CHF.

The AT ticket I quoted was also a 24 hour ticket though so the comparison remains valid.
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Old August 20th, 2014, 08:15 PM   #2733
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A1/A2

The widening of A1/A2 is now completed westbound, with 3 lanes available. Next week will also open up 3 lanes eastbound.

http://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/ein-nadelo...ehr-1.18366670

I believe this was the only widening project currently going on in Switzerland. The next A1 project would be Härkingen - Luterbach, and they are also talking about widening A1 near Aarau. Expanding the northern bypass of Zürich should begin in 2015.

http://www.nordumfahrung.ch/
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Old August 20th, 2014, 08:22 PM   #2734
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
3500 CHF for a yearly ticket? Wow, it's like two full month wages for me...
The ideal would be Swiss salaries and Italian prices (and climate), but that happens only in fairy tales…
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Old August 20th, 2014, 08:48 PM   #2735
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That's also why there are many cross-border commuters living in A/D/F/I and working in CH, and many Swiss going shopping in nearby countries...

The proposed minimum wage refused in the recent referendum was 4000 CHF per month, so the average wage is higher, as is the cost of life.

**************

Sorry for the off-topic now, in case we can continue in the railway forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eeee. View Post
A Zurich -> Meisterschwanden -> Zurich day ticket (24 h) doesn't cost CHF 51.60 but 34.80. And you can use it how often you want to - not only "there and back". For trains, trams, buses, boats.
Which means 17.40 CHF with the half fare card (halbtax), or roughly 14.20 EUR. But with the Vorteilscard the Austrian ticket would be cheaper, too, wouldn't it?

A couple of years ago I tried compare Swiss and Italian train prices, and I found out that for a comparable distance the Swiss halbtax fare was between the standard ICplus and EuroStarCity fares in Italy. And while in Italy children above 12 are obliged to pay full fare, in Switzerland children up to 16 travel for free* if with their parents or grand parents; so that a family with two 14 years old children in Switzerland would pay half than in Italy, and without having to look for some hidden discounts - just buying tickets 5 minutes before the departure. Now that Trenitalia uses yield management more, it can be possible to find cheaper prices, but I bet Swiss prices for frequent users are still cheaper and flexible - and not linked to a specific train.

*well, they must pay a yearly subscription costing around 30 CHF
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Old August 20th, 2014, 09:02 PM   #2736
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I think the cheapest possible way for long distance train travel in Switzerland for people without GA is to pick up Gemainde tageskarte from the municipality (limited availability). In Basel it costs 44 CHF and works like a one day GA. This is what I do when I have some visitors from abroad who would have no discounts otherwise.
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Old August 21st, 2014, 11:10 PM   #2737
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The Bure-Porrentruy section of the A16 has been opened today. It is 8.8 km long and includes a 3 km single tube tunnel, and a double 550 m long 52 m high bridge. Construction lasted more than 7 years. The A16 is around 80 km long, around in tunnel. To save money, most underground section have one lane per direction, with open-air sections as 2+2. However, most single tube tunnels are traced to allow a future second tube. The remaining sections will open both in 2016.
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Old August 21st, 2014, 11:36 PM   #2738
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Are there particular restriction on A16? I mean, like lower speed limits or something?
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Old August 21st, 2014, 11:54 PM   #2739
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100 km/h on open air 1+1 sections, and 80 km/h in single tube tunnels, otherwise standard limits on 2+2 sections (120 open air, likely 100 in tunnel); speed limits are likely to be lower in the older (1970s?) and curvy section near Biel-Bienne.

Tunnels are likely all without shoulder.

Otherwise, A16 is more similar to a full motorway with single tube tunnels to save money rather than similar to Swiss A8 or A13, which were built as single carriageway fast roads with no provision for doubling and often allow overtaking.

Anyway, none of them has flat junctions.
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Old August 22nd, 2014, 03:37 AM   #2740
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Good, now there are just 2 sections remaining.

Do they have plans for an A6 link with A16 with some Bienne bypass?
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