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Old August 24th, 2014, 09:14 PM   #2761
Sunfuns
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I haven't seen any statistics, but I doubt that road is anywhere close to most congested in Switzerland.
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Old August 24th, 2014, 10:34 PM   #2762
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Gubrist Tunnel should have the highest priority. It's one of the very few 2x2 motorways in Europe in excess of 100,000 vehicles per day.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 12:02 AM   #2763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
So the tunnel is single tube? On Openstreetmap it is shown as two tubes, and satellite images seem to show two portals at each end.
I would presume that there are just portals, no actual tube.
Already built portals much simplify future tube construction.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 12:26 AM   #2764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Gubrist Tunnel should have the highest priority. It's one of the very few 2x2 motorways in Europe in excess of 100,000 vehicles per day.
Recorded on which period of time? Because I still believe that local planners will know better than someone far away looking at AADT.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 08:59 AM   #2765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post

Recorded on which period of time? Because I still believe that local planners will know better than someone far away looking at AADT.
I really haven't figure out the reason of you hatred towards figures...
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Old August 25th, 2014, 11:17 AM   #2766
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Because it is in my opinion still impossible to establish a daily AADT on these roads when the volumes are quite often seasonal in these areas.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 11:20 AM   #2767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Recorded on which period of time? Because I still believe that local planners will know better than someone far away looking at AADT.
Gubrist has 346 days of traffic jam per year (basis 2012).
http://www.news.admin.ch/NSBSubscrib...ents/30890.pdf

And the expansion of the Northern Zurich bypass does have the highest priority. However, as always in these days when it comes to big road or rail projects, NIMBYs are flooding the courts with lawsuits deferring construction...
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Old August 25th, 2014, 11:25 AM   #2768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Because it is in my opinion still impossible to establish a daily AADT on these roads when the volumes are quite often seasonal in these areas.
The Zurich bypass is a stretch jammed by commuter traffic, not by holiday traffic. Your doubts hold true for sections like the Austrian S16 where you have large jams on the 8 skiing holiday weekends and the rest of the year you can drive freely. For urban areas where traffic jams are caused by commuter traffic AADT is a pretty reliable figure for the utilization of the road.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 11:51 AM   #2769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Because it is in my opinion still impossible to establish a daily AADT on these roads when the volumes are quite often seasonal in these areas.
As rower2000 stated, figures and math MUST take that into account, otherwise they're worthless.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 12:32 PM   #2770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rower2000 View Post
However, as always in these days when it comes to big road or rail projects, NIMBYs are flooding the courts with lawsuits deferring construction...
Than its time Switzerland, Germany and other countries look at how the Netherlands dealt with it in recent years. In a little over 10 years nearly all major bottlenecks have been fixed and a few major highways like the A2 and A4 have been widened for nearly their entire length. Changes to the way road projects were approved played a key role in it.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 12:43 PM   #2771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
As rower2000 stated, figures and math MUST take that into account, otherwise they're worthless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Because it is in my opinion still impossible to establish a daily AADT on these roads when the volumes are quite often seasonal in these areas.
I can't resist posting a translation of a poem, written by Italian poet Trilussa at the end of 19th century (the original is not in Italian, rather in Roman dialect):
Do you know what statistics is? It's something
you need to make general calculations
of people who is born, who is sick,
who dies, goes to jail and gets married.

But for me the most interesting statistics
is where percentage is involved,
because in this case, the average is always the same
even with people in need.

I'll explain myself: from calculation made
according to present-day statistics,
it comes that you can have one chicken per year:
and, if your income doesn't allow that,
it still goes into your statistics
because somebody else will eat two chickens.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 01:02 PM   #2772
Road_UK
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I got one too

I'm not in love
So don't forget it
It's just a silly phase I'm going through
And just because
I call you up
Don't get me wrong, don't think you've got it made
I'm not in love, no no, it's because..

I like to see you
But then again
That doesn't mean you mean that much to me
So if I call you
Don't make a fuss
Don't tell your friends about the two of us
I'm not in love, no no, it's because..

I keep your picture
Upon the wall
It hides a nasty stain that's lying there
So don't you ask me
To give it back
I know you know it doesn't mean that much to me
I'm not in love, no no, it's because..

Ooh you'll wait a long time for me
Ooh you'll wait a long time
Ooh you'll wait a long time for me
Ooh you'll wait a long time

I'm not in love
So don't forget it
It's just a silly phase I'm going through
And just because I call you up
Don't get me wrong, don't think you've got it made
I'm not in love
I'm not in love
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Old August 25th, 2014, 01:14 PM   #2773
g.spinoza
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I am straight.

End OT.
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Old August 28th, 2014, 11:31 PM   #2774
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Suburbanist in the rail thread asked about the financing of train shuttles. Here is the answer: http://www.bav.admin.ch/finanzierung...x.html?lang=fr

For the Furka and Oberalp shuttles, the federal government sets the level of service it wants (every 60', increased to every 30' on weekends on the Furka, 3 or 4 trains per day on the Oberalp), then it pays the deficit (around 2.5 million CHF per year).

The Simplon shuttle is financed by the Wallis-Valais canton, which also decide the service level (number of trains, their capacity, and so on), without federal subsidies.

The Lötschberg and Vereina shuttles are financed by tickets.

I don't know about the combined Lötschberg-Simplon shuttle (which runs only on peak holyday days), but I suppose is self-financed, too, as it is run by the same company that run the Lötschberg shuttle.
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Old August 29th, 2014, 08:58 PM   #2775
earthJoker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Des View Post
Than its time Switzerland, Germany and other countries look at how the Netherlands dealt with it in recent years. In a little over 10 years nearly all major bottlenecks have been fixed and a few major highways like the A2 and A4 have been widened for nearly their entire length. Changes to the way road projects were approved played a key role in it.
Well the topography of Switzerland is a little bit more difficult.
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Old August 29th, 2014, 09:13 PM   #2776
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A1 Luterbach - Härkingen is nearly entirely flat with no bridges larger than an overpass, except for a bridge across the Aare.
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Old August 29th, 2014, 10:30 PM   #2777
Autoputevi kao hobi
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I think that they should toll Gotthard tunnel,because they can earn much money and then they could build the second tube from money that they have earned.
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Old August 29th, 2014, 10:34 PM   #2778
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Quote:
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I think that they should toll Gotthard tunnel,because they can earn much money and then they could build the second tube from money that they have earned.
Please. Gotthgard is mainly used for Germany-Italy transit, and traveling through Switzerland is not free...
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Old August 31st, 2014, 02:57 AM   #2779
John Maynard
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No, it's not free when using the motorway. The vignette costs 40 CHF which is ~33 €, and is valid 14 months (from 1st of December till 30th of January, the second year) for unlimited travels on the Swiss motorway/expressway network.

In comparison, a one-way journey in Italy from Aosta to Parma, almost similar in distance than Basel to Chiasso, will cost 46,20 €: http://www.autostrade.it/autostrade_...43&soloAuto=on

IMHO, It's very advantageous when comparing the amount you may spend using motorways in our neighboring countries.

Note also that petrol in Italy is more expensive by ~30 percent than in Switzerland!
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Old August 31st, 2014, 09:10 AM   #2780
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An increase from 40SF to 100SF was just rejected by the population in a referendum, a couple of month ago. Nobody will attempt to introduce any road-pricing for years to come.
It's useless to dispute about something (tunnel toll) that unlikely will happen.
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