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Old September 3rd, 2014, 10:41 PM   #2801
John Maynard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
No way, it would be discriminatory versus foreign drivers, and thus certainly forbidden by some bilateral agreement with the EU.
Germany is in the hearth of EU.



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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
There arent only roads in life, if you give all road taxes to roads, then other sources of money (read: other kinds taxes) should be found for other public expenditures (health care, schools, etc), unless they are aboloshed (which would not be wise).
I agree, but there are already hundreds of other taxes and the VAT, that are already taken from the taxpayer, and spent by the state in all kind of fields. Either, you don't pay education taxes, so that they are invested in railways, as an example. IMHO, road taxes should be invested for roads (at least proportionally to their share in transportation), and not for other unknown purpose.


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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The "milk cow" initiative, if accepted, would just mean more taxes on other things, not more money for roads with the same level of taxation.
Did you thought of budget optimization, starting first, on lot of unnecessary wastages? Also, It would bring 3 mld CHF/annually more for the roads.


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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Apparently you don't know how our country works...the federal council has just said that he does not support the initiative and suggest to refuse it. It cannot reject.

When an initative collects enough signatures, then citizens will vote on it. It will be the same for this one.

The government may decide to offer a counter-project, in which case voters are able to choose between the initiative or the government's proposal (or to refuse both). But it may also decide not to offer a counter-project, in this case citizens can only choose if to approve the initiative or if to refuse it.
Yes, I know, it's just the news titles that are confusing ....
Thought, the government can invalidate an initiative, and in fact, this had happened on some occasions.
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 10:50 PM   #2802
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Germany is in the hearth of EU.
Yes, and Merkel is getting on everybody's nerves. She can expect lawsuits from Austria and the Netherlands soon. Europe is not Germany only.
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 11:01 PM   #2803
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Germany is in the hearth of EU.
Yes, but Germany used the trick to lower the taxes for its residents the same amount of the new toll. The practical effect is that only foreign drivers pay more, but without discrimination...

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Thought, the government can invalidate an initiative, and in fact, this had happened on some occasions.
Only in special circumstances (and the use of tax revenues is not one of them).
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 11:06 PM   #2804
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Yes, and Merkel is getting on everybody's nerves. She can expect lawsuits from Austria and the Netherlands soon. Europe is not Germany only.
Sure, but Germany is the main country in EU (in term of population and economy). It is also an important actor of EU, as well as one of the six founders of the European Community. Maybe, the EU will become more like Switzerland in the future . But, we will see what will happen for the "foreigner tolls" by then .
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 11:13 PM   #2805
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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Yes, but Germany used the trick to lower the taxes for its residents the same amount of the new toll. The practical effect is that only foreign drivers pay more, but without discrimination...
How the fact that foreigners pays more, besides, a toll that Germans doesn't, is not a discrimination?


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Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Only in special circumstances (and the use of tax revenues is not one of them).
And I hope it will remain like that, bloody press sensationalism .
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 11:38 PM   #2806
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Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Sure, but Germany is the main country in EU (in term of population and economy). It is also an important actor of EU, as well as one of the six founders of the European Community. Maybe, the EU will become more like Switzerland in the future . But, we will see what will happen for the "foreigner tolls" by then .
I don't recognise Germany as our "actor" because I have never been able to vote for their parliament. I wish all countries in the EU would become nation states again and have the same status as Switzerland and Norway.
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Old September 3rd, 2014, 11:44 PM   #2807
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Also, if this is a trick for providing "without discrimination", we could take example here in Switzerland, by lowering road taxes for residents (or reduce the proposed rise on fuel taxes) of the amount that the foreigners would pay (or total amount), and introduce a special toll for transit in our beautiful country
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Old September 4th, 2014, 01:58 AM   #2808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
There arent only roads in life, if you give all road taxes to roads, then other sources of money (read: other kinds taxes) should be found for other public expenditures (health care, schools, etc), unless they are aboloshed (which would not be wise).

The "milk cow" initiative, if accepted, would just mean more taxes on other things, not more money for roads with the same level of taxation.
This is okay for taxes applying for all things like VAT. But specific motoring taxes (e.g. registration and fuel excise taxes) need to be justified for a specific motoring purpose (e.g. roads)
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Old September 4th, 2014, 12:09 PM   #2809
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This is okay for taxes applying for all things like VAT. But specific motoring taxes (e.g. registration and fuel excise taxes) need to be justified for a specific motoring purpose (e.g. roads)
This is exactly what the initiative "for equitable transportation funding" is demanding for roads.

Here is the initiative website:
http://www.initiative-vache-a-lait.ch (cow milk initiative)

The proposed new bill, in details (in French):
Quote:
Initiative populaire pour un financement équitable des transports

La Constitution est modifiée comme suit:

Art. 86, al. 2bis (nouveau), 3, 3bis phrase introductive, 4, 5 (nouveau) et 6 (nouveau)

2bis Elle affecte le produit net de l’impôt à la consommation sur les carburants, à l’exception des carburants d’aviation, et le produit net de la redevance pour l’utilisation des routes nationales au financement des seules tâches et dépenses suivantes, qui sont liées à la circulation routière:

a.construction, entretien et exploitation des routes nationales;

b.mesures destinées à promouvoir le trafic combiné et le transport de véhicules routiers accompagnés;

c.mesures destinées à améliorer les infrastructures de transport dans les villes et les agglomérations;

d.contributions destinées aux routes principales;

e.contributions pour la construction d’ouvrages de protection contre les sinistres dus aux éléments naturels et pour les mesures de protection de l’environnement et du paysage que la circulation routière rend nécessaires;

f.participation générale au financement, par les cantons, des routes ouvertes à la circulation des véhicules à moteur;

g.contributions aux cantons dépourvus de routes nationales pour la construction, l’entretien et l’exploitation des routes cantonales.

3 Abrogé


3bis Elle affecte le produit net de l’impôt à la consommation sur les carburants d’aviation au financement des seules tâches et dépenses suivantes, qui sont liées au trafic aérien:

4 L’introduction ou l’augmentation d’impôts, de redevances ou d’émoluments dans le domaine de la circulation routière sont sujettes au référendum prévu par l’art. 141.

5 Si ces moyens ne suffisent pas au financement des tâches et des dépenses liées à la circulation routière et au trafic aérien, la Confédération prélève sur les carburants concernés un supplément sur l’impôt à la consommation.

6 Toute affectation non conforme aux utilisations prévues du produit net des impôts et redevances visés aux al. 2bis et 3bis et du produit net du supplément sur l’impôt à la consommation visé à l’al. 5 est proscrite.
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Old September 4th, 2014, 10:41 PM   #2810
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Yes, and Merkel is getting on everybody's nerves. She can expect lawsuits from Austria and the Netherlands soon. Europe is not Germany only.
OT: Merkel is against the current road toll plan. She does not say it aloud because she is counting on the EU commission to reject it anyway. But even if the EU should approve, they still can refer to the coalition agreement which says road toll on motorways. Which will not be OK with the EU. I don't think the road toll in Germany will see daylight in this legislation period.

To lower the vehicle tax when introducing a road toll, is a discrimination of foreigners and thus not applicable. Even if it is split up into two separate legislative acts. The EU guys are not stupid, you know...
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Old September 4th, 2014, 11:37 PM   #2811
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* allowed
** EU guys are stupid. A lot of them anyway....
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Old September 5th, 2014, 12:06 AM   #2812
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** EU guys are stupid. A lot of them anyway....
You are British, eh?

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Old September 5th, 2014, 12:08 AM   #2813
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Half British, half Käsekopf
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Old September 10th, 2014, 07:10 PM   #2814
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Quote:
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* allowed
** EU guys are stupid. A lot of them anyway....

I believe their viewpoint is just very different compared to yours or mine, therefore their goals are definitely different.


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Old September 13th, 2014, 12:23 PM   #2815
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A5 Biel/Bienne

https://www.news.admin.ch/message/in...e&msg-id=54433

The 'Bundesrat' has approved two segments of the Biel/Bienne bypass. There will be two branches, a through branch for A5 traffic, with 1 lane in each direction for through traffic and 1 auxiliary lane between exits. There will also be a local spur. Most of the project is undergrond, construction will take around 11 years and cost 2 billion CHF. Completion is forecasted in 2030.

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Old September 22nd, 2014, 01:47 AM   #2816
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Quote:
Berne repêche le contournement de Morges

CIRCULATION — Le Conseil fédéral a décidé d'intégrer au programme de développement stratégique des routes nationales le contournement de Morges.
http://www.lematin.ch/suisse/Berne-r...story/31173663
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Old September 24th, 2014, 10:45 PM   #2817
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Gotthard Tunnel

The National Council (Nationalrat) has approved the construction of a second Gotthard Tunnel tube with a comfortable majority; 109 votes for and 74 against.
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Old September 24th, 2014, 11:04 PM   #2818
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The National Council (Nationalrat) has approved the construction of a second Gotthard Tunnel tube with a comfortable majority; 109 votes for and 74 against.
One line in each tunnel to be operational by ca 2030 (increasing capacity is against the law). However this is by no means the last word on the matter. A referendum on this next year is a near certainty.

Link (german): http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/nat...id3151337.html
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Old September 24th, 2014, 11:59 PM   #2819
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That's one good news!

The second good news is that the Federal Council will "rethink" its idea for a new road fund: the fuel taxes increase won't be 12-15 cents/liter as proposed, but 5-7 cents/liter instead.
http://www.swissinfo.ch/fre/le-nouve...sence/40789900
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Old September 29th, 2014, 01:39 AM   #2820
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Good news: Genevan people have voted today against building a tunnel beneath lake Geneva to link the two shores of the lake.

This tunnel (traversée de la race) as was proposed wouldn't have helped much at reducing traffic flows on Mont Blanc bridge and the price tag was way too high for the utility it provided.

Hopefully this will mean that the better bridge solution (traversée du lac) linking the highway Geneva-Lausanne to the opposite shore, between Vengeron and Collonge-Bellerive, and the french highway to Chamonix might be approved in the future, although that bridge wouldn't be built until 2050 or so.



In the meanwhile, the federal government will support adding a new lane to the existing highway that surrounds Geneva between Vengeron and Perly.
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