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Old February 28th, 2016, 06:46 PM   #3021
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Is there a minimum threshold of # of cantons that must pass a initiative, or just the general voting counts? Any threshold of minimum % of registered voters?
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Old February 28th, 2016, 06:47 PM   #3022
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So far 24 cantons have voted in favor, 1 against (Genève) and 1 hasn't reported the results yet (Vaud). In total 58% voted in favor so far.

edit: 24 out of 26 cantons voted in favor.

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Old February 28th, 2016, 08:31 PM   #3023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Is there a minimum threshold of # of cantons that must pass a initiative, or just the general voting counts? Any threshold of minimum % of registered voters?
change the constitution needs both: kantons(voter marjority in region) + voter summary nationwide

questions if a new law is good only voter nationwide
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Old February 28th, 2016, 11:00 PM   #3024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
Definitely, a proper road tunnel and access route should be built between Canton of Valais and Bern and/or Uri/Ticino.
I think any new federal road project in (to) Ticino in the next 10-15 years is unlikely, following today's vote. There is still no permanent road funding, and politically in Ticino we have received 3 billions. It will be hard to obtain more in Ticino, without a new funding system.

Ticino would have benefitted more from filling the A13 gap between Bellinzona and Locarno, IMHO.

Generally speaking, if a road funding system isn't approved, I don't see new federal road projects in sight.

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If Switzerland wanted to enforce the cap on truck transalpine traffic, would it even have the rail capacity, right now, to shift this traffic to freight rail? Would it have with the new Gotthard tunnel operating from Dec. this year?

I'm under the impression only a fully new freight railway from Chiasso to Basel with a branch to Schaffenhausen via Zürich would accomplish this.

I also think the mass adoption of electrical cars over next 20 years will reduce the pollution complaints about car traffic in the valleys and part of the noise complaints as well.
The capacity would be available from 2020, as until then there will be refurbishment works going on in many rail tunnels.

But this is just an academic question. Our politicians does not want to respect the Alpen Initiative law, so from a road point of view the Alpen Initiative does not exist (it resulted in some temporary rail subsidies, though).

Cleaner vehicles are a welcome thing, but still, there is the pollution and damage generated by any human activity. Electric/hybrid vehicles will reduce local pollution, but not overall, and useless transports (Italian bottled water to France and viceversa, to give a banal example) will continue to be overall a damage.

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Is there a minimum threshold of # of cantons that must pass a initiative, or just the general voting counts? Any threshold of minimum % of registered voters?
There is no minimum treshold, and sometimes objects are approved/rejected with less than 40% of citizens voting. This time around 63% has voted, which is considered very high.

There are two types of votes: initiatives and referendums. Both involve a new law, the difference is that an initiative is proposed by a group of citizens, in a referendum the law is already proposed by the government and some citizens want to cancel it. In the first case to pass there must be both a majority of voters and of cantons, in the second just the majority of voters. The question on the second tube was a referendum.
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Old February 29th, 2016, 12:16 AM   #3025
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It is true that the production of vehicles, electricity and transportation of things like bottled water do contribute to pollution elsewhere. However, the central argument against more road capacity through the Alps has always been about the unique characteristics of narrow valleys and how they trap air pollution and how noise affects the surrounding areas.

Electric road vehicles substantially reduce noise and eliminate point-of-use air pollution. In a scenario where most vehicles driving around in city/area are electric-powered, road vehicles stop being a problem related to air pollution altogether. There could still be arguments around regarding congestion, space etc. ,especially within cities, but the air flow in valleys couldn't be pulled as a card by opponents of infrastructure any longer.

IIRC, in the distant pass, countries that had extensive use of coal-powered steam trains had some nascent NIMBY opposition to new railways or stations through urban areas because of the pollution these trains produced. In Switzerland, of course, electrification solved the problems and many lines were built electric from the start due to steep grades.
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Old February 29th, 2016, 12:27 AM   #3026
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I wonder why people in Argovie o Soleure have voted massively in favour of the new tunnel.

At least the rejection in Geneva and Vaud shows that there's a part of the country that feels dissatisfied with the current priorities of the confederation in terms of infrastructure expenditure.
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Old February 29th, 2016, 02:30 AM   #3027
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaud View Post
I wonder why people in Argovie o Soleure have voted massively in favour of the new tunnel.

At least the rejection in Geneva and Vaud shows that there's a part of the country that feels dissatisfied with the current priorities of the confederation in terms of infrastructure expenditure.
Ticino + Italy holidaymakers and Swiss of Italian origin with strong connections to Italy, I would say.

GE + VD population has a naturally less interest in good road connection between TI and the North since they are simply less dependent on it, given their geographical location.

Interesting to see that JU almost managed an even 50/50 with 50.18% yes and 49.82% no.
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Old March 1st, 2016, 03:23 AM   #3028
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http://files.newsnetz.ch/bildlegende...ic_970x641.jpg
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Old March 1st, 2016, 06:43 AM   #3029
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Some recent San Bernardino Pass videos from astey highways


CH / A13 Driveway to the San Bernardino Tunnel




CH / A13 San Bernardino Tunnel - Chur / Part 1

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Old March 6th, 2016, 02:16 AM   #3030
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If i am allowed to say something in special and in general:

I did read about big road and rail projects (such as Gotthard Base Tunel) for a long time. I remember that the amount of freight to be transported by rail is a very high percentage compared to other countries, but also compared to austria, which has a big share in alpine region also. So the formal acceptance but real regret of the alpeninitiative should not cover, that the policy about this is different. Also the freight transport by rail is steadily growing, and projects are funded, whilst in germany the impact of rail is low and there are already bottlenecks. A friend of mine works as dispatcher and administrator for copetitors of germans half-public DB company. He told that not only the connections to harbours, but also the Elbe valley are heavily congested such, that there is a kind of traffic jam. Trains are waiting in Dresden because all the way to Prague is full.

I did visit Switzerland 2 weeks ago. The Vignette system at first offended me. 40Sfr if you stay only four days is much for me (you can only buy an annual one there is no monthly). But overall its quite nice. Everyone knows prices are high for germans there. But i also profit from low prices if i do my many travels to the east. So compared to a swiss loan this 40Sfr per year are really low on a annual basis. There are so many tunnels which need to be managed properly. For that i really accept to pay.

There would be much money to earn. Weekly 20Sfr, monthly 60Sfr and yearly 200Sfr would be affordable and worth to mention and could help building a bit more. To hinder transport of italian water to france, well thats something government could do with several instruments. Taxes for freight should differ if something is essential or not. It should make a difference if such things are needed in swiss or transported through, if capable there also or not, etc.

I think swiss motorways are missing important parts (Schaffhausen) and have big bottlenecks. But if you compare to the terrain, they did good work. Also driving was very nice feeling, because of the 120kph limit. As the difference between slowest and fastest cars is smaller you could easily swim in the stream. Everyone knows, i would prefer a general limit in germany also. That must not be 120kph like the green-red govt in Baden-Württember tries to implement in some spots. But it could be 120, 140, 160 dependent to the road. So this trip encouraged my thinking about this.

Generally i don't know much more. Nature is nice, and to get people there to see it should not destroy it. But that southern swiss is cut in pieces by snow half a year because of missing tunnels at grimsel, furka and susten passes for example was a bit strange to me. I did not visit restaurants, carried almost every piece of food from germany to cook at a friends house. So i don't know much about food and people. In tourist spots everyone was very friendly and helpful. That it's quite impossible to be accepted as a stranger i did only hear from my friend. One got Bluecard in Germany, and could have applied for citizenship, but went to the famous EMPA in Zürich. There it's much more unlikely to get such things if at all. An other friend working at an nice restaurant with famous two michelin stars came back to saxony after some 8 years, because he was never accepted by the people there. And politics, well thats something which has its advantages and disadvantages.

I know its a bit OT, but if i read the discussions, i always like to say: Did you ever go there? Do you know the situation of the country in all facettes? Discussion needs simplification. But often we just hear: build roads, we want them...

I drove the following motorways and main streets ("Hauptstrassen"): Schaffhausen-Zürich, Zürich-Basel, Zürich-Bern-Interlaken-Luzern-Zürich, Zürich-(Wetzikon)-Sargans-St.Margarethen.

Were there any news about the missing piece of motorway between Uster and A52/A53 Hinwil?
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Old March 7th, 2016, 11:22 PM   #3031
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Proposals for a toll (in addition to the vignette) are coming out again, if possible with a toll on all transalpine roads and not only the Gotthard road tunnel.

However Ticino does not want any toll, as no canton is linked with the others by toll roads and no one wants to be the first. There are not toll roads in Switzerland, except the Great St Bernhard tunnel, the Munt La Schera tunnel, train shuttles, ferries and some rural touristic roads. The only link on a main and trafficked road which is tolled is the Lötschberg shuttle, which carries around 1.5 million vehicles a year (an average of 4100 a day, with more than the double on peak days). Its ticket costs around 25 CHF.

The second tube has been approved, but not yet financed. Works will not start before 2020 at the earliest. Two TBMs will be used, and the existing portals reused. However, the existing safety tunnel will be retained, and will likely gain a new route with new portals at its two extremes.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/...story/10067898

http://www.derbund.ch/schweiz/wer-du...story/24445696

http://www.derbund.ch/schweiz/standa...story/25323446
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Old March 9th, 2016, 02:03 AM   #3032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Maynard View Post
As proven by the referendum, I bet a vast majority of genevan and vaudoise people would be in favour of that if they spared them (us) from financing the project and instead we could spend the money in some useful infrastructure for our regions. A third track all the way from Geneva to Lausanne with some quadruple track sections would be cool, as would the new m3 in Lausanne and finishing the pending tram projects in Geneva or the loop railway track towards the airport.

Certainly much more useful for us. The comic is nonetheless quite insulting considering that both Geneva and Vaud are net contributors to the common funds for other cantons. Maybe we should stop contributing.
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Old March 9th, 2016, 02:28 AM   #3033
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Didn't the canton rejected a new railway tunnel in the city?
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Old March 9th, 2016, 07:00 PM   #3034
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaud View Post
As proven by the referendum, I bet a vast majority of genevan and vaudoise people would be in favour of that if they spared them (us) from financing the project and instead we could spend the money in some useful infrastructure for our regions. A third track all the way from Geneva to Lausanne with some quadruple track sections would be cool, as would the new m3 in Lausanne and finishing the pending tram projects in Geneva or the loop railway track towards the airport.

Certainly much more useful for us. The comic is nonetheless quite insulting considering that both Geneva and Vaud are net contributors to the common funds for other cantons. Maybe we should stop contributing.
You forgot the most important: the third motorway lane from Lausanne to Geneva and Yverdon to Lausanne that received over 14'000 "votes" in favor in a petition, already in 2008. There is not only rail in life! We are still waiting .
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Old March 19th, 2016, 12:32 AM   #3035
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CH / A13 San Bernerdino Tunnel - Chur / Part 2

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Old March 19th, 2016, 09:04 AM   #3036
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Is there a reason for some sections with ultra wide lanes on A16 near Bellinzona? I never understood those. It is not just merging lanes, mind you. You can see some of them in first Astey's S. Bernardino video.
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Old March 19th, 2016, 11:39 AM   #3037
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You mean A13 near Mesocco? They're great for passing slow trucks. I was a bit surprised to see that too, I don't recall seeing those wide lanes elsewhere in Switzerland. It also gives truckers more room to correct for errors or bad driving conditions (snow). Traffic on A13 has to gain over 1000 meters of altitude over only 11 km (as the crow flies, more along the road).
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Old March 20th, 2016, 11:25 PM   #3038
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They are a sort of an unmarked suicide lane, that is, a central space to allow overtakings in both directions. The section with this setup at the beginning of the climb (Soazza-Mesocco) has recently been modified in 2+1 lanes with a narrow barrier between the two directions.
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Old March 23rd, 2016, 10:09 PM   #3039
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A16

The final segment of A16 between Court and Loveresse is scheduled to open on 5 December 2016.

http://www.arcinfo.ch/articles/regio...ecembre-516414
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Old March 24th, 2016, 11:24 PM   #3040
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Next motorway openings:

Quote:
Eröffnungstermine zwischen 2016 und 2019

A9 Sierre – Gampel: Teileröffnung 2016
A16 Delémont Est – Grenze JU/BE: Eröffnung 2016
A28 Umfahrung Küblis: Eröffnung 2016
A5 Biel Ost – Biel Süd: Eröffnung 2017
A9 Gampel – Brig Glis: Teileröffnung 2017
A16 Court – Tavannes: Eröffnung 2017
For A9 in 2016, it should be from there (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/46.30852/7.65396) to the next exit in Gampel. Traffic will flow through Susten until the 4 km Pfynwald tunnel between there and Sierre is opened in the next decade (maybe).

I don't know what they mean with "A9 Gampel – Brig Glis: Teileröffnung (partial opening) 2017". But it could mean all the A9 will be completed, with the exception of the Pfynwald, Riedberg and Visp tunnels. Eyholz tunnel, the eastern half of the Visp bypass section, might however finally open. The Riedberg tunnel is the short tunnel between the two half-junctions in Gampel-Steg.

Source: https://www.news.admin.ch/message/in...e&msg-id=61095
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