daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 7th, 2009, 03:09 PM   #361
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Why should we pay to allow transit traffic that brings only pollution and costs?
Well, that's just the disadvantage of being Switzerland, located as it is. The current pollution of thousands of cars idling for hours at the same location is much worse than a bit more traffic that can be freeflowing. My friends spend 8 liters of gasoline over 5 kilometers. When driving freeflowing, that would've been only like 0,4 liters.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 7th, 2009, 03:29 PM   #362
H123Laci
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Budapest, HUN
Posts: 1,647
Likes (Received): 3

I hope they didnt fuel their car in switzerland, thus they didnt pay fuel tax to the swiss budget...
H123Laci no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 7th, 2009, 05:17 PM   #363
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

We're not gonna talk about Gotthard again?
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 7th, 2009, 05:19 PM   #364
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

I want to drive the Gotthardpass once... It's pretty well build according to Google Earth.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2009, 08:56 AM   #365
earthJoker
Ölm
 
earthJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,806
Likes (Received): 1988

Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
the base tunnels costs more. much-much more...
But cause no pollution (once it's built).
__________________
Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?

See you in the Swiss Forum on skyscrapercity.com
earthJoker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2009, 04:47 PM   #366
Dinivan
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Barcelona, Catalonia, EU
Posts: 683
Likes (Received): 7

cars still run with the same combustion engines... how do tunnels eliminate pollution?
Dinivan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2009, 05:02 PM   #367
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

They don't. They just concentrate pollution on enter/exit portals and optional air channel portals.
However air is a bit better for people living near motorway with tunnel (and far from any openings).
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2009, 05:38 PM   #368
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Queues:



(yellow: queque at both portals at the same time)

Traffic:



Until 2004:
red: vehicles more than 6 m in length
green: vehicles less than 6 m in length

After 2004:
red: trucks with trailer or semitrailer
yellow: trucks without trailer, small trucks, autobus
green: private cars

From: http://www.gotthard-strassentunnel.ch/
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2009, 05:43 PM   #369
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Interesting. Weird that they show it in annual volumes, since nobody's interested in that.

When dividing 5.500.000 by 365 days, you'll get about 15.000 vehicles per day on average. This is barely anything, and 15.000 isn't the problem, but the weekend and summer volumes are more representative in this case. Are there any figures about that? It's also interesting the volumes are more or less stable for the last 20 years.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2009, 06:05 PM   #370
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Month by month in 2007:



See http://www.gotthard-strassentunnel.ch/ ==> italiano/Deutsch ==> statistiche/Statistik ==> traffico/Verkehr

Costs:





The running costs of the tunnel are 12 millions CHF per year, plus other millions for other works.

A second tube would cost at least 2 billions.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia

Last edited by Coccodrillo; June 29th, 2010 at 03:16 PM. Reason: typing error
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2009, 08:07 PM   #371
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Which is nothing for Switzerland.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2009, 08:30 PM   #372
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

That's about the money for all roads in Switzerland in one year. Not very small number.

Also looking at following document at page 14 there is traffic density map. Looks like, that A13 is pretty much empty. So if people don't like to wait hours before Gotthard, maybe the should consider taking not very long detour.

http://www.astra.admin.ch/dokumentat..._JjKbNoKSn6A--
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 8th, 2009, 09:38 PM   #373
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

it's on page 24.

There is also the Simplon-Lötschberg option, with the direct Kandersteg-Iselle shuttle train (runs on holydays, reservation mandatory, 1h travel time).
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2009, 02:35 AM   #374
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
That's about the money for all roads in Switzerland in one year. Not very small number.
I know how much 2 billion CHF is for Switzerland, thank-you-very-much; it's nothing compared to the Gotthard rail tunnel. What makes you think such an important project has to be very cheap? Many double-tube tunnels have been expensive, like the 10-km Seelisberg, but they still built them; why?

As for A13; you aren't seriously recommending it to someone going from Milan to Basel? Even the old road over the pass is like a hundred times better option. And someone who payed 30 euros for the vignette, surely doesn't wanna pay additional money for train (which is expensive, btw).
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2009, 10:32 AM   #375
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

Use the Mont Blanc tunnel then (33.20 € for the tunnel alone, plus the price of the A5), or the Brenner motorway (14 € Verona-Brennero).
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2009, 10:53 AM   #376
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

A13 can be a good alternative, but only if the Gotthard waiting time is more than an hour. Luckily Zürich isn't a problem anymore.

By the way, they're now cleaning the Gotthard pass, but there are still 6 meters of snow up there. So it's not an alternative year-round.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2009, 11:38 AM   #377
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
As for A13; you aren't seriously recommending it to someone going from Milan to Basel?
Actually yes. It is just 85 km difference (around one hour). In those weekends, when there will be 10, 20 km or more long staus, it is only a small detour. And nowadays it is fairly easy to predict, when those days are.

Of course in these GPS days people don't even consider looking at paper maps and search for alternatives, they just push buttons, which show the shortest but not the quickest route. Using more than one brain cell is a rarity today.
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2009, 11:40 AM   #378
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,612
Likes (Received): 19400

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Of course in these GPS days people don't even consider looking at paper maps and search for alternatives, they just push buttons, which show the shortest but not the quickest route. Using more than one brain cell is a rarity today.
Well, most people use the "quickest route", but that's only in theory. When the situation is freeflowing, the Gotthard is obvious the quickest route, but a GPS doesn't know traffic congestion.
ChrisZwolle no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2009, 11:46 AM   #379
keber
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 9,878
Likes (Received): 1364

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
the Gotthard is obvious the quickest route, but a GPS doesn't know traffic congestion.
Of course. But people should expect very long quees on a, let's say, Saturday 11th July in 10:00 AM or Saturday 1st August. There is no "maybe there won't be long quees" at that date.
keber no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 9th, 2009, 03:17 PM   #380
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 768

The Gotthard Pass, from http://www.funiforum.org/funiforum/s...ead.php?t=6221 (photos taken on 7 may 2009):

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax
ciao a tutti!!!!

allego un paio di foto scattate oggi che riguardano il sucessore del "dinosauro" (la PETER DER del `35)..... si tratta dell'apertura del passo del San Gottardo, che vede impeganta una Rolba 1000, una Peter intrac 2011 e, appunto, una Peter 2011 R (cingolata ;-) ) che ha il compito di apripista!
Incredibile dove riesce ad arrampicarsi per fare strada alle altre! Impossibile senza cingoli



che caldo!

seguono le altre


dopo aver scavato lo spazio per girare si torna indietro



P.S.: sul pendio, 15 metri di neve :shock: su una lunghezza di 400 metri, il resto per fortuna meno.....ma il punto critico non è ancora stato fatto
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
schweiz

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium