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Old June 19th, 2009, 10:25 AM   #561
ChrisZwolle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Like for the Gotthard tunnel, and unlike the rest of Europe, the Government is more interested in railways, with plans to increase capacity and frequency of trains.
Useless policy. Look what they've done in NL for large amounts of money, and the results on roads: 0,0
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Old June 19th, 2009, 10:55 AM   #562
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Not really useless, at least for freight traffic.



And also for passengers the result isn't that bad:



Money invested on transport infrastructures:



Source LITRA: http://www.litra.ch/Les_transports_en_chiffres.html

Km done by train every year:



Source BAV-OFT-UFT: http://www.bav.admin.ch/dokumentatio...x.html?lang=it

AADT: http://www.astra.admin.ch/dokumentat...x.html?lang=en (page 14 of the PDF, 24/25 of the document)
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Old June 19th, 2009, 11:08 AM   #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Not really useless, at least for freight traffic.

http://www.litra.ch/img/users/2/M08_Tonnen_Km_df_k.gif
What does this small pictogram mean, where the percentage is 0,7%?
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Old June 19th, 2009, 11:31 AM   #564
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Pipelines (gas, oil, etc).

The boats includes mainly, if not only, the barges on the Rhine because lakes are not used to transport goods (or have only a very low local traffic).

I remember that tonnes-km and passengers-km counts not only the goods or passenger or goods moved but also the distance they traveled. 1000 tonnes-km can be both 10 tonnes doing 100 km (10 x 100) or 100 tonnes doing 10 km.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 11:32 AM   #565
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It's pretty obvious that trains are far more expensive, they spend the same on trains and roads, while trains have a share of only 16%. Recalculate that to a per-kilometer basis, and you'll see why public transport are so expensive.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 11:40 AM   #566
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Recalculated per kilometer, the investments in PT is about 4.5 - 5 times higher than roads. Not wrong per se, but I don't like it that the investments in PT are used as an excuse to do nothing about the roads.

I wonder though, if all those tourist trains are also included in the numbers? I've seen loaded trains all day long with tourists.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 12:06 PM   #567
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Every mean of transport has its utility.

For business travel between Bern and Zürich the train is the best otpion, for Dutch going to Italy with 20 tonnes of bagages and two caravan the road may be more interesting.

These graphics consider all trips. But if you consider a mountainous area the 23% share of public transport.

Imagine 10.000 people living a city, making every day 10 km to go to work. 10.000 x 10 = 100.000 passengers-km.

And now 400 people doing daily 250 km (Chiasso-Olten). 400 x 250 = 100.000 pkm.

A tram line in the city may be a good idea, but a new railway for the second example would not and a road would be better (in general, between Chiasso and Olten there is yet the Gotthard railway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Recalculated per kilometer, the investments in PT is about 4.5 - 5 times higher than roads. Not wrong per se, but I don't like it that the investments in PT are used as an excuse to do nothing about the roads.
The idea is that on some axes the railway is more cost-efficient than road. Filling the remaining double track parts of the Bern-Zürich railway (the greater part has four tracks) may be considered cheaper than a third lane on the motorway, for the same amount of passenegrs and goods transported.

And the target is to promote public transport because sometimes it is faster. On Sundays I go from my home to the city centre in 10 minutes by bus, on weekdays in 30 minutes (by bus or by car). And no, roads can't be widened, my city lies on hills or mountains. If more people took the bus on weekdays, we could gain 15 min per trip.

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I wonder though, if all those tourist trains are also included in the numbers? I've seen loaded trains all day long with tourists.
Probably yes, because touristic trains are usually considered part of public transport (there are a few tourist-only railways).
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Old June 19th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It's pretty obvious that trains are far more expensive, they spend the same on trains and roads, while trains have a share of only 16%. Recalculate that to a per-kilometer basis, and you'll see why public transport are so expensive.
Erm, the cumulative investment of the streets are at least double of the amount of the trains.
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Old June 19th, 2009, 06:02 PM   #569
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The graphs above says otherwise. But even so, trains are still more expensive on a per-km base.
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Old June 20th, 2009, 12:44 PM   #570
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The graph is not cumulative! I calculated it by the raw data. Streets invesment are around 70Billion total and rail about 40Billion, but this does not take inflation into account. As there was much more investments in the 70ties and 80ties you would have this would actually mean there is at least the double amount of investments in streets (taking inflation into account).
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Old June 20th, 2009, 12:46 PM   #571
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Sorry, I missed the word "cumulative"
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Old June 20th, 2009, 08:05 PM   #572
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i drive tomorrow from St. Margrethen <> Bern ... so if someones misses some pic oder want to see something special, let me know
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Old June 21st, 2009, 12:47 PM   #573
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Two videos taken yesterday from the Luzzone dam.

The first shows a road going on the left shore of the lake, then to some farms.

The second shows another local road going to other farms. The second tunnel, with a single lane like the others, is actually in the dam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX0k4KyWop0
http://snipurl.com/kkdb3 (Google Maps)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdTlcE30kck
http://snipurl.com/kkdc2 (Google Maps)

Wikipedia about the dam:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diga_del_Luzzone
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_de_Luzzone
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Old June 21st, 2009, 03:28 PM   #574
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Very cool videos! Gorgeous nature and fun ride. Do you have a cabrio?
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Old June 21st, 2009, 04:52 PM   #575
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Yes. Anyway, I was not driving, so I made a lot of photos and videos without the danger of driving. I will post them next weekend. The trip was along the Gotthard, Oberalp and Lukmanier/Lucomagno passes. For the first two I haven't made photos because of the really bad weather with fog.

For today...

...tunnels everywhere. The top tunnel is the centre one in the second photo.



The left one goes to the road above the dam (~150 m), the centre one to one of the two parkings of a restaurant and ti a private road for the dam (~100 m), the right one goes only to the restaurant's parking (~40 m). The other tunnels are between 500 and 900 m in length.

The restaurant is also the bottom station of an aerial ropeway used only to transport staff and material for the dam.

In the video "Luzzone 1" i travel along the dam, then throught the left tunnel, then throught the right one. In "Luzzone 2" I pass throught a tunnel before the dam, then throught the dam, then through the bottom tunnel of the first photo.



The dam, with one road above and another inside it. This dam has been enlarged, you can see the different colours of the concrete. The first video begin from a road on the other side of the lake, on the background. As can bee seen from the different colors on the coastline, the level of water can vary suddenly, thus it is dangerous to swim in the lake or to walk along the river. There is a complex network of water tunnel in this area, if someone is interested I can post a map.

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Old June 25th, 2009, 07:39 PM   #576
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A3 Basel - Zürich

Click on the title to view the full set

The A3 is one of the most important motorways in Switzerland, connecting industrial center of Basel with the economic center Zürich. It also runs further to Sargans, but I haven't gone that far this time. This set runs from Basel to Zürich.

route:
[img]http://i40.************/2nvz391.png[/img]

1. We beginnen met een afstandsbord.
image hosted on flickr


2. Afslag Pratteln.
image hosted on flickr


3. Raststätte Pratteln.
image hosted on flickr


4. Afslag Liestal.
image hosted on flickr


5. Verzweigung Augst.
image hosted on flickr


6. Vooraankondiging
image hosted on flickr


7. De drie rijstroken splitsen zich hier in 2 rijstroken richting A3 en 2 rijstroken naar A2.
image hosted on flickr


8. Verzweigung Rheinfelden.
image hosted on flickr


9. Afstanden.
image hosted on flickr


10. Enkel "Deutschland" is wat karig vind ik...
image hosted on flickr


11. Hele stukken met 100, benieuwd of ik nog boetes krijg..
image hosted on flickr


12. Rheinfelden-Ost.
image hosted on flickr


13. De rijbaan splitst zich vanwege wegwerkzaamheden.
image hosted on flickr


14. Afslag Eiken.
image hosted on flickr


15. Afslag Frick.
image hosted on flickr


16. Afstanden.
image hosted on flickr


17. Tunnel.
image hosted on flickr


18. 4 tunnels achter elkaar eigenlijk.
image hosted on flickr


19. Afslag Brugg.
image hosted on flickr


20. Viaduct over viaduct.
image hosted on flickr


21. Verzweigung Birrfeld.
image hosted on flickr


22. De A1 naar Bern. Vanaf hier begint ook de dubbelnummering met de A1.
image hosted on flickr


23. Slechts één rijstrook rechtdoor.
image hosted on flickr


24. Nu begint een drukker gedeelte.
image hosted on flickr


25. Afslag Baden-West.
image hosted on flickr


26. Hmmmmmmm.....
image hosted on flickr


27. Een drie-buizige tunnel met wisselstrook.
image hosted on flickr


28. Afslag Neuenhof.
image hosted on flickr


29. Afslag Wettingen-Ost.
image hosted on flickr


30. Afstanden.
image hosted on flickr


31. Afslag Spreitenbach.
image hosted on flickr


32. Afslag Dietikon.
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33. Het Limattaler Kreuz.
image hosted on flickr


34.
image hosted on flickr


35.
image hosted on flickr
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Old June 25th, 2009, 09:00 PM   #577
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Nice pics! I've noticed people drive faster between Basel and Zürich than elsewhere in Switzerland. Why's that?
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Old June 25th, 2009, 10:40 PM   #578
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i drive there often; i saw no radars.

there are often around cities, but rare between two cities (my opinion)
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Old June 30th, 2009, 09:33 PM   #579
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Quote:
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i drive there often; i saw no radars.

there are often around cities, but rare between two cities (my opinion)
To see all Radars in Europe and more locations here:

http://www.scdb.info/en/software-karte/

I have all on my TomTom, if anyone in interessed on database, PM me.
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Old July 1st, 2009, 11:09 PM   #580
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Note that GPS maps containing the postition of radars etc are illegal in Switzerland.

http://www.news-service.admin.ch/NSB...ments/7033.pdf

http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/rs/741_01/a57b.html

(sorry, I didn't found informations in English)
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