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Old October 16th, 2010, 04:14 AM   #961
Robotsx
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I have a question for you: What are average highway and motorway construction's cost per 1 km in Switzerland? I suppose it might be a quite big amount, for mountains of course.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 11:30 AM   #962
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I don't know.

The expected cost of the A16 is 5.6 billions CHF for 85 km (half of them in tunnel), that is around 65 millions CHF/km (50 millions EUR).

Central motorways were cheaper to built as they are in a hilly terrain, but still have some tunnels and viaducts here and there (the Swiss plateau is not mountainous, but not entirely flat either).
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Old October 16th, 2010, 04:35 PM   #963
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The best variant (number 2) of the planned A13 part between Bellinzona and Locarno has been chosen by the Canton. Numbers 3 and 6 are considered other possibilities, but the final decision will be taken by the central governement and may be another of these variants. It will maybe have partly only one lane per direction and be more a fast road with 80 km/h limit than a real motorway. It will not be opened before 2020.

More informations in Italian: http://www.ti.ch/A2A13/

Maps: http://www3.ti.ch//CAN/cartellastamp...4737310476.pdf

(in the mappe/maps section the second KMZ for Google Earth has a wrong extension, it should be renamed with .kmz to open it)
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Old October 16th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #964
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I'm annoyed by the slow progress of Swiss road plans. This one runs through a flat area (apart from one variant). If they pick an alignment in 2011, going through procedures until 2013, works can be executed with an opening in mid-2015.
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Old October 16th, 2010, 05:23 PM   #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
I don't know.

The expected cost of the A16 is 5.6 billions CHF for 85 km (half of them in tunnel), that is around 65 millions CHF/km (50 millions EUR).

Central motorways were cheaper to built as they are in a hilly terrain, but still have some tunnels and viaducts here and there (the Swiss plateau is not mountainous, but not entirely flat either).
OK, Thanks for information. I didn't expect that it'll be so difficult to find information about this...
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Old October 16th, 2010, 06:18 PM   #966
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There may be more info on www.astra.admin.ch, I will search later if I remember.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I'm annoyed by the slow progress of Swiss road plans. This one runs through a flat area (apart from one variant). If they pick an alignment in 2011, going through procedures until 2013, works can be executed with an opening in mid-2015.
It is exactly because this is the only relevant flat area of Canton Ticino that nobody wants a road in the middle of this plain, a such variant has already been canceled following a referendum (besides that there is a partial risk of flooding).

Slow progress are not only for road plans but for any Swiss infrastructure.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:14 PM   #967
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Some of the votes/referendums/initiatives about transport.

Clic "Testo dell'iniziativa" to see the proposed text of the law, only in Italian, French and German (you can change the language on the top right corner of the page).

1979, initiative agains road noise (abandoned by the proponents, never voted):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis122.html

1982, tolls for alpine road tunnels, refused (not enough signatures in time):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis151.html

1986, proposing a new tax on trucks based on kilometres (33.9% yes, 66.1% no, refused, but approved some years later):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis153.html

1986, against the first tax on trucks, refused (not enough signatures in time):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis178.html

1989, proposing a new Gotthard railway, refused (not enough signatures in time, but approved a few years later):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis199.html

1989, doubling of the Gotthard road tunnel, refused (not enough signatures in time):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis200.html

1990, forbidding the construction of new roads (28.5% yes, 71.5% no, refused):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis173.html
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/va/19900401/det359.html

1990, elimination of the "vignette" for motorway (abandoned by the proponents, never voted):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis177.html

1992, AlpTransit project (63.6% yes, 36.4% no, approved):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i//pore/va/19920927/index.html

1993, increasing speed limit on motorways to 130 km/h, refused (not enough signatures in time):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis228.html

1994, Initiative of the Alps (forbidding new alpine roads or their capacity increase, and proposing an increase of rail share with the 650.000 trucks/year limit) (51.9% yes, 48.1% no, approved):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis204.html
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/va/19940220/det408.html

1994, tax on trucks based on kilometres and weight (67.1% yes, 32.9% no, approved):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i//pore/va/19940220/index.html

1999, doubling of the Gotthard road tunnel, refused (not enough signatures in time, and in contrast with the previous initiative):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis278.html

2000, proposing a legal limit on road traffic (21.3% yes, 78.7% no, refused):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis247.html
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/va/20000312/det463.html

2001, limiting nearly all urban roads to 30 km/h instead of 50 km/h maximum (20.3% yes, 79.7% no, refused):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis271.html
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/va/20010304/det476.html

2003, "Avanti" initiative proposing an increase of capacity on the Genève-Lausanne, Bern-Zürich and Erstfeld-Airolo (thus including the famous tunnel) (37.2% yes, 62.8% no, refused):
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis299.html
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/va/20040208/det504.html

Other refused propositions to ban new main roads on specific areas:
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis187.html
http://www.admin.ch/ch/i/pore/vi/vis186.html
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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:18 PM   #968
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You'd wonder why they still have politicians in Switzerland. Everything can be done by referendum
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Old October 18th, 2010, 01:31 PM   #969
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This is already true, to the point that Switzerland has no president or prime minister like all other states, but only 7 ministers with the same power. This form of government is rare, even Wikipedia doesn't have an article about it (it has one only in Italian).
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Old October 18th, 2010, 08:21 PM   #970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
You'd wonder why they still have politicians in Switzerland. Everything can be done by referendum
Only the executive and judicatory branch of Switzerland is run by professionals. The legislative is solely amateurs.
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Old October 18th, 2010, 10:38 PM   #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
it has one only in Italian.
not only. you forgot about polish wikipedia (i know, that it isn't in languages on the left side in wikipedia, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist)

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Some of the votes/referendums/initiatives about transport.
unbelievable! I want something like this in poland!
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Old October 19th, 2010, 01:11 AM   #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja_kubek2 View Post
not only. you forgot about polish wikipedia (i know, that it isn't in languages on the left side in wikipedia, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist)
Thanks. I have added a link to each other!

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unbelievable! I want something like this in poland!
The advantage is that anybody can propose (nearly) anything, the disadvantage is that projects have to make happy as much people as possible, otherwise few people vote to tax themselves to make a gift to another region. That's why proponents group various projects together, sometimes this work (Rail 2000-AlpTransit), sometimes not (Avanti project, see above).

========================

The second of four tunnels (two tunnels with two tubes each) of Biel-Bienne bypass, Längholz of 2.4 km, has been completed. Tunnel boring will be finished mid-2012, opening a few years later (2014? 2015?).

========================

Another bypass recently opened is the one of Bulle (FR). It has two tunnels of 1.7 km in total of which one runs under a small river. Another particualrity are the 5 roundabouts in 5.3 km of road. AADT 13.000. Time needed to cross Bulle passed from 18 minuets to 6 minutes during peak hours.

Map: http://www.h189.ch/images/plan_H189.pdf (2.4 MB)

Website: http://www.h189.ch/ (with a lot of informations but only in French)

Google Maps: http://maps.google.ch/maps?f=q&sourc...05476&t=h&z=15 (satelltie images still not updated)
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Old October 20th, 2010, 12:53 PM   #973
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A1 Genève

A video of the westernmost section of A1, until the French border.

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Old October 20th, 2010, 05:21 PM   #974
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Hard to believe that this bypass was constructed only in the 1990s (I think). Where did transit go before? Through Geneva?
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Old October 20th, 2010, 06:32 PM   #975
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yes
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Old October 20th, 2010, 09:16 PM   #976
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Zurich western bypass was completed only this year. You had to cruise into some residential streets if coming from St. Gallen to Luzern, for instance. Switzerland is really lagging when it comes to highway construction.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 09:23 PM   #977
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All major Swiss cities have decent bypasses now though. The last major issue at the moment is Biel/Bienne now, but that is being taken care of.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 09:27 PM   #978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
yes
Unbelievable. Traffic in Geneva is chaotic already without transit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Zurich western bypass was completed only this year. You had to cruise into some residential streets if coming from St. Gallen to Luzern, for instance.
Yes, that's also true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Switzerland is really lagging when it comes to highway construction.
Well, I wouldn't say it's lagging behind, it has a very dense motorway network after all, but it's true about Zurich and Geneva bypasses.
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Old October 20th, 2010, 09:28 PM   #979
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Quote:
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Switzerland is really lagging when it comes to highway construction.
Thankfully
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Old October 20th, 2010, 09:31 PM   #980
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Now I remembered the single-tube Gotthard tunnel.
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