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Old January 16th, 2011, 03:26 PM   #1161
Des
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A2 is busier as it connects major urban centers (Milan / North Italy - Luzern / Zurich / Bern / Basel / Southern Germany). When I was in Switzerland the Gotthard was shut in both directions because of an accident for at least the whole afternoon which created a huge traffic jam on a wednesday.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 03:48 PM   #1162
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AADT:

Gotthard Tunnel: 16.000 (winter 11.000, july-august 24.000, above 16.000 only may-october)
Gotthard Pass: 3.700 (opened only may-october, average of 5.000 in august)
San Bernardino Tunnel: 6.000 (winter 3.700, july-august 10.000)
San Bernardino Pass: not known but certainly very low, closed most of time outside mid june to mid september
Lucomagno-Lukmanier Pass: 200 in winter, 1.500 in august (sometimes closed in winter)
Novena-Nufenen Pass: not known, but at the lower end of the valley the average is 300 in winter and 2.500 in summer, during winter the pass is closed and the road serve only very small villages
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Old January 16th, 2011, 05:14 PM   #1163
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Do you have figures for San Bernando Tunnel?
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Old January 16th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #1164
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You mean Grand St. Bernard?
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Old January 16th, 2011, 05:24 PM   #1165
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Yes: http://www.letunnel.com/datapage.asp?id=4&l=1

Simplon Pass is around 3.000 vehicles a day (on the whole year, thus again, more in summer). Simplon Shuttle around 150.000 cars per year = 410 per day.

Mont Blanc and Fréjus tunnels around 5.000.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 09:54 PM   #1166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
You mean Grand St. Bernard?
Yes, sometimes I just use the Italian name on spite. I almost wrote "traforo Gran San Bernardo"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Yes: http://www.letunnel.com/datapage.asp?id=4&l=1

Simplon Pass is around 3.000 vehicles a day (on the whole year, thus again, more in summer). Simplon Shuttle around 150.000 cars per year = 410 per day.

Mont Blanc and Fréjus tunnels around 5.000.
Grand St-Bernand tunnel averages only 1600 vehicles day and - most interesting - such figures have been more or less stable for the past 30 years, except for the period of the other tunnels' major fires in 1999-2003.

It is a nice route with a covered approach road on the Italian sector.
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Old January 16th, 2011, 10:03 PM   #1167
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Because it is tolled, but it is not a motorway. 22 € for a car, 133 € for a truck. From Milan to Lausanne or Valais the Simplon is cheaper. So only local traffic, or traffic from Turin area, use it.

A service tunnel is under construction: http://www.letunnel.com/datapage.asp?id=53&l=1 (PDF in Italian on the right)
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Old January 16th, 2011, 11:59 PM   #1168
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The Great St Bernard Tunnel is so expensive that the only time I drove through it was when my car's brake liquid unexpectedly got low.
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Old January 18th, 2011, 12:22 AM   #1169
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Another project, the 1138 m long Galgenbrucktunnel in Schaffhausen. It will connect these two points. Traffic on the existing route will be reduced by half from 25.000 to 12.500 or so. Opening expected in 2017.

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Old January 18th, 2011, 03:58 AM   #1170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It is a nice route with a covered approach road on the Italian sector.
I've driven it three times in the last two years, always like the road between Aosta and the tunnel. Also drove the pass once a couple years back, very nice road leading up from the Swiss side.

I noticed that they build a big dam near the Swiss entrance of the tunnel, there was no water on the other side of the dam. Does anyone know if they made this to be an artificial lake or if it's just some protection measure for melting water?

Here's a picture I took last year while driving up to the tunnel entrance from Aosta:



And another one while driving down in the other direction this year. Taken at more or less the same point:

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Old January 19th, 2011, 06:18 PM   #1171
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A website showing all tunnels and bridges of swiss motorways: http://saratlassuisse.free.fr/
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Old January 20th, 2011, 11:33 AM   #1172
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Just a technical question: a lane can handle 2000 vehicles per hour. The Gotthard tunnel is limited to 1000 vph (1 truck = 3 vehicles). On sundays, when nearly no truck can run, would it be possible to increase ths 1000 vph limit to increase capacity without reducing safety? (there has usually to be some 100 m ebtween vehicles)
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Old January 20th, 2011, 11:39 AM   #1173
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2.000 vehicles per hour is a bit on the high end. They usually calculate the maximum capacity is at 2.250 vehicles per hour per lane. However, this will certainly mean less than 2 seconds following distance. 1.800 vehicles per hour per lane is feasible, but the problem with two-lane roads is that the slowest vehicle dictates the entire roadway capacity. This is why a road with one lane per direction without passing opportunities have a lower capacity per lane than roads with two lanes per direction.

Theoretically, at 1.000 vehicles per hour per lane this would translate to 28.800 vehicles per day. However, a truck is considered 3 car-equivalents, thus actual throughput is lower. A 20% truck share occupies 60% of the car-equivalent capacity. If you have 300 trucks per hour per direction at the Gotthard tunnel, all capacity is taken. This doesn't happen though, as only some 3.000 trucks pass through the Gotthard tunnel on a daily basis. That's 1.500 per direction or approximately 100 per hour (300 car-equivalents).
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Old January 20th, 2011, 12:38 PM   #1174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
...but the problem with two-lane roads is that the slowest vehicle dictates the entire roadway capacity.
With trains the more the speed is low and uniform, the higher the capacity is.

Is this true also with road vehicles?

Reducing speed in the tunnel to 50 or 60 km/h (on some sundays) may help to increase capacity?
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Old January 20th, 2011, 12:50 PM   #1175
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No, the optimal speed for capacity and fuel consumption is around 90 - 100 km/h. However, as trucks cannot reach such speeds, 80 km/h is a logical choice for the Gotthard tunnel.
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Old January 20th, 2011, 05:39 PM   #1176
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In the future, but not before 2014, the price of the vignette may increase from 40 to 80, then 100, CHF a year (about 30-60-75 euro respectively). A vignette for shorter periods, one or two months, will also be introduced for 40 CHF.

The price of the fuel (standard, diesel or bot is not known) may increase of 7 to 10 cents, starting from 2015.

Public transport tickets may increase of 10% between 2013 and 2017.

edit: the ministry of transport is planning a new way of financing both new rail and road projects, in a way, it is hoped, that can make all happy. The usual referendum may take place next year. I will try to make a summary of the proposals and of the content of the referendum.
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Old January 20th, 2011, 06:51 PM   #1177
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I don't like some policies of the Swiss government like the stupid transalpine ban on new roads, but I do recognize their ability for long-term planning of infrastructure projects, at least, irrespective of changes in different governments.
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Old January 20th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #1178
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The target is to use rail as much as possible, not to ban road traffic at all. Usually roads are considered when all rail potential is used. As most swiss (also those wanting your beloved second road tunnel) consider long distance trucks unnecessary as there are trains they approved the Initiative of the Alps (the government of that time voted against it, by the way). Another point is that no project can start if it is not entirely financed, and if nobody find new sources of money, the existing money is used for most urgent projects (considering only the volume of traffic the second road tunnel, and some other rail projects, are not considered to be as urgent/congested as others). What has been presented today, and may be voted/approved in the next few years, may solve the problem of financing urgent-but-less-than-others projects. If the target to half the number of trucks is achieved and financing found then the second tunnel may be accepted. Rail share for passenger on the Gotthard line is already quite high at 40% (annual average), and it is expected to neraly double in the next years (the number of passengers, not the modal share) so I don't think it would be considered not enough high.
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Old January 20th, 2011, 07:20 PM   #1179
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Quote:
As most swiss (also those wanting your beloved second road tunnel) consider long distance trucks unnecessary as there are trains they approved the Initiative of the Alps (the government of that time voted against it, by the way).
That is exactly the problem in Switzerland with referendums. Decisions like that which require a lot of expertise should be made by experts, not the citizens who did not graduated in transport economics or traffic engineering. It's like asking someone from the street how surgery should be performed
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Old January 20th, 2011, 07:51 PM   #1180
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Citizens should have the right to choose about their own future. With certain limits on particulars subjects, ok, but this is not the case. In this case they decided that for freight trains are better than trucks, so an alternative to freight transport is being built. The initiative doesn't forbid freight transit, only forbid trucks. So if swiss and european politicians finally manage to accept that, minds about the initiative may change. If not, are only tourists waiting to cross the Alps to loose.

To do that also Italy should do its part, increasing capacity and loading gauge on some railway lines and building some terminals to tranship goods. Following the projects (minimal or luxury), this could cost from 500 to 3000 millions euro, which would be the first investment in freight rail infrastructure since the XIX century. Road has got much more new infrastructure than rail, so it's turn also to invest on it. As rail is quite efficient (not really in Italy...) not much new rail infrastructure would be needed, outside urban areas where urban transport use much of rail capacity.
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