daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 20th, 2011, 10:04 PM   #1181
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Planned increase of traffic, in millions passengers per year, on motorways.



Planned increase of traffic, in millions passengers per year, on railways.



Existing roads to be added to the national network in 2014 (the dotted road north fo Schaffhausen will be removed). Most of them are or will be either motorways or wide roads like the A13.

__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 21st, 2011, 12:51 AM   #1182
Des
Traveller
 
Des's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MUC
Posts: 2,436
Likes (Received): 806

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Existing roads to be added to the national network in 2014 (the dotted road north fo Schaffhausen will be removed). Most of them are or will be either motorways or wide roads like the A13.

What do you mean by added to the national network? Will they simply be renamed / numbered to match other national roads in Switzerland or does it also mean these roads will be upgraded to highway / national road standard?

And in the other image of projected traffic increases, do you know where the big increase in traffic on the A13 near Liechtenstein comes from?
__________________
Car News
Des no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 01:49 AM   #1183
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

The red roads will be owned and maintaiend by the central government, and not anymore by the cantons. They will continue to stay in their respective category (1st, 2nd or 3rd class, respectively autobahn-autoroute-autostrada, autostrasse or main road). There are some 2x2 road in this group, which will receive an A-number, with the red diamond (then, when physical signs will be palced on the motorway, that's another question). Until recently (2004?) also motorways (in green on that map) belonged and were maintained by the cantons. Some of the red roads will be upgraded, but because of traffic reasons, not because of their change in the owner.

About the traffic volumes, some predictions on both road and rail maps seem too unrealistic to me, so I suppose the massive increase on A13 is an error, like the +10 MPax on the A9 in Valais. On the other hand the predicted growth on Genève-Lausanne and Bern-Zürich is realistic, on both motorway and railway.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 08:55 AM   #1184
earthJoker
Ölm
 
earthJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,806
Likes (Received): 1988

The addition of the Julierpass to the national network is a major joke. This road is not at all of national importance it is only used to get to St.Moritz (5000 inhabitants).
__________________
Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?

See you in the Swiss Forum on skyscrapercity.com
earthJoker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 09:00 AM   #1185
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,532
Likes (Received): 21237

Isn't relevance within the offer of an interconnected network a criteria? Julierpaß is a quite important link to that sparsely populated areas.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 10:13 AM   #1186
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
The addition of the Julierpass to the national network is a major joke. This road is not at all of national importance it is only used to get to St.Moritz (5000 inhabitants).
St. Moritz represents the entire Engadin area, so it's not that weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Julierpaß
They don't use ß in Switzerland.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 10:54 AM   #1187
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

An initiative has been launched to allocate 50% of part of the fuel tax to railways instead of the current 25%. I don't know how really works the fuel tax, but I suppose these percentages are calculated on the revenue of the tax going to a road fund, not the total revenues.

As alternative, the government has proposed another way to finance rail projects. Both will be propsoed in a referendum next year. I suppose they cannot be both accepted, so the voters will have to choose between them (with three questions: about the initiative (yes or no), about the government's proposal (yes or no), what should be chosen if both are accepted).

If the government's proposal is accepted a new fund for railways would be created without reducing road budget, with these sources:
- two thirds of the truck tax
- 0,1% of the VAT
- 10% of the tax on "products derived from oil" used as fuel
- 250 to 400 millions CHF from the elimination of some fiscal reductions
- 300 millions CHF from the cantons
- other sources
Plus the increase of train tickets.

For roads the increase of the fuel tax and of of the vignette are confirmed.

More informations (DE-FR-IT):
http://www.news.admin.ch/message/ind...e&msg-id=37311
http://www.astra.admin.ch/dokumentat...e&msg-id=37312
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 11:00 AM   #1188
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

I would feel robbed in Switzerland.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 11:14 AM   #1189
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

not all people are such car-dependant as the Dutch and if the government's proposal is accepted, it's a good news anyway, because it finds money for rail without reducing road funds.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 11:24 AM   #1190
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

I'm sure it's ridiculous to propose that train travellers should pay for these upgrades themselves. I mean, the idea of someone paying for a service he/she uses. Absurd...
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 11:32 AM   #1191
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

That is the government proposal. The initiative had already produced a positive effect: it forced the government to find more money for rail (and for roads, with the fuel-vignette increase). And this additional money is really needed.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 02:36 PM   #1192
earthJoker
Ölm
 
earthJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,806
Likes (Received): 1988

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Isn't relevance within the offer of an interconnected network a criteria? Julierpaß is a quite important link to that sparsely populated areas.
It's only the Julerpass, the Maloiapass is noth in the map, so no interconnection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
St. Moritz represents the entire Engadin area, so it's not that weird.

They don't use ß in Switzerland.
The Engadine is already connected by the N28 and the Vereinatunnel, this would be the second national access.

Pass is never written with ß and you are right, we don't use it in Switzerland.
__________________
Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?

See you in the Swiss Forum on skyscrapercity.com
earthJoker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 02:37 PM   #1193
Des
Traveller
 
Des's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MUC
Posts: 2,436
Likes (Received): 806

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
St. Moritz represents the entire Engadin area, so it's not that weird.
Yes, and the region is more than just its inhabitants in the winter season a lot of tourist travel to this region increasing the number of people in the area significantly.
__________________
Car News
Des no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 02:38 PM   #1194
Des
Traveller
 
Des's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: MUC
Posts: 2,436
Likes (Received): 806

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
The red roads will be owned and maintaiend by the central government, and not anymore by the cantons. They will continue to stay in their respective category (1st, 2nd or 3rd class, respectively autobahn-autoroute-autostrada, autostrasse or main road). There are some 2x2 road in this group, which will receive an A-number, with the red diamond (then, when physical signs will be palced on the motorway, that's another question). Until recently (2004?) also motorways (in green on that map) belonged and were maintained by the cantons. Some of the red roads will be upgraded, but because of traffic reasons, not because of their change in the owner.

About the traffic volumes, some predictions on both road and rail maps seem too unrealistic to me, so I suppose the massive increase on A13 is an error, like the +10 MPax on the A9 in Valais. On the other hand the predicted growth on Genève-Lausanne and Bern-Zürich is realistic, on both motorway and railway.
Thanks for the clear answer!
__________________
Car News
Des no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 03:03 PM   #1195
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

7.5 million per year = 20.500 persons per day = 17.100 vehicles per day. Frankly, this is an extremely modest increase in traffic over a 25-year period in Mittelschweiz.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 04:04 PM   #1196
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

What would be a better estimation for you?

Cities are not growing a lot, and commuting (already significant) will hopefully not grow endlessly.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 21st, 2011, 04:17 PM   #1197
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

I think 1 - 2% per year seems about right in a normal economic growth scenario.

If you have a motorway with 90.000 vehicles per day (like A1 north of Bern), the growth would be 5 - 7.5 million according to that map, so say 6 million. That is 13.700 vehicles per day over a 25-year period. That is only 15% in 25 years, or approximately 0,5% per year.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2011, 11:35 PM   #1198
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Today I have made a tour of the few opened passes near the Gotthard region, in other words, the Lucomagno-Lukmanier and the Oberalp (via the car shuttle). I will post some photos hoping they are of some interest I have selected the most interessant, even if I usually prefer quality than quantity, there are around 50 photos this time.

The car shuttle runs only 4 times a day and at around 65 CHF per car (50 EUR) plus a ticket for every passenger isn't cheap but there are no road alternatives. Each passenger must have a separate ticket, around 12 CHF or 9 EUR, standard discound cards are accepted. The road during winter is used as a ski slope.

These are the roads or railways showed in the photo: http://goo.gl/Uqwe4

The Lucomagno-Lukmanier road starts near Biasca. Here it's wide and with two bicycle lanes.



Still no snow here.



After Olivone the real climb starts.

__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2011, 11:35 PM   #1199
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

An old Saurer (I suppose) truck used as snowplow. Note the steering wheel on the right to allow a better view of the side of the road.



Since 2000 Lucomagno Pass is kept opened in winter when possible, but some 30 to 50 days a year it is closed without prior notice, following the weatehr and danger of avalanches.





To keep opened the road many snow shelters have been built, some of them entirely closed on the side, but still above ground. There are also a few rock tunnels.

__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 23rd, 2011, 11:36 PM   #1200
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

A Rolba snowplow.





Some snow and ice on the road, but that isn't a problem slowing down and paying attention.







__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
schweiz

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium