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Old January 12th, 2012, 05:11 AM   #1541
Verso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Zermatt is a mountain resort, and the costs of hauling merchandise and supplies there are extremely high anyway. There is, indeed, a road reaching Zermatt but it is unfairly closed to road traffic to boost the income of the cable car company.
It's a railway that takes you to Zermatt.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #1542
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Well, I found out that Zermatt is home of 6000 people but there are no roads going there! But they seems like it because it make the town quiet and clean! I wonder if there are other towns in the developed world with no road access (except islands, off course).
There are several in Switzerland. Other car free mountain resorts are Saas Fee, Wengen and Mürren. The small village of Quinten is only reachable by boat or on foot...
There are also some small places that have no road access in Winter.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 07:00 PM   #1543
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The A13 will be enlarged by 7 m from the junction with A2 to the new Roveredo tunnel bypass. Today it has two narrow lanes per direction, these will be widened and shoulders added. Works will be completed together with the 1x2 tunnel, in 2016.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 01:54 AM   #1544
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Is true that there is a law that doesn't allow new motorways in Switzerland?
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Old January 15th, 2012, 11:58 AM   #1545
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If there was, several projects would be in violation of it.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #1546
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There is a law that forbid increasing capacity along the Great St Bernard, Simplon, St Gotthard and San Bernardino roads (defined between two points, for example for the A2/N2 it's between Erstfeld and Biasca), and construction of new roads parallel to these.

There is no law prohibiting new motorways elsewhere, but there is basically no need for new motorways. Most of the main axes already have a motorway, on the remaining a motorway (or an autostrasse) is under construction or planned within 10 years. I cannot find any logic path for a completely new motorway.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #1547
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Yep, finishing the existing missing links and widen a few motorways to 2x3 would do the job.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 12:16 PM   #1548
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The only parts planned but not under construction nor financed are:
*A 20 la Chaux-de-Fonds - Le Locle
*the central part of A53
*the very last kilometre on the A4 (Axenstrasse) near Flüelen
*the A8 Brünig tunnel and a few parts between Interlaken and Spiez
*the rail shuttle Frutigen BE-Steg VS
*A13 Bellinzona-Locarno
*A38 Stabio-Gaggiolo
*A4a Hirzel tunnel
*maybe something between Bern and Neuchâtel
The other non financed projects are widenings, sometimes on different alignment (Luzern bypass), but not completely new links.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 12:21 PM   #1549
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What are the exact plans for the Luzern bypass? I've read something about "sondierbohrungen", which indicates new tunnels.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #1550
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It would be a parallel 2+2 motorway via a 3,2 km tunnel (the one in red), plus something near Hergiswil:



It's the variant "kurz 1" shown here: http://www.bypass.lu.ch/index/zweckm...pass_stadt.htm

The federal government is planning new funds for rail and road projects, which will be voted by referendum in 2013 or 2014, so no new rail or road project will start before that date (more realistically 2016-2017, when A9, A16 and A28 will be completed and paid for). It also depend on the vote's result, as in Switzerland rail projects are often approved, while road projects are usually less supported (but not always rejected).
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Old January 15th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #1551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo
There is a law that forbid increasing capacity along the Great St Bernard, Simplon, St Gotthard and San Bernardino roads (defined between two points, for example for the A2/N2 it's between Erstfeld and Biasca), and construction of new roads parallel to these.
Why? I don't think a 2nd tube will damage the environment unless there are hidrogeological problems. Having still 1+1 section berween Milan and Munich or Turin and Geneve in 2012 is stupid.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #1552
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Why?
Because people voted this way. It's called direct democracy.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 03:47 PM   #1553
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It's called putting people in charge with no insight knowledge about the subject.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #1554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
It's called putting people in charge with no insight knowledge about the subject.
It's like referendum against nuclear in Italy and Austria, but unlikely nuclear power plants, better highway connections don't represent a treat (lines of trucks in both directions on a 17 km single- tube tunnel are a danger!) And while having or not nuclear doesn't affect other countries, highways yes.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #1555
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And while having or not nuclear doesn't affect other countries, highways yes.
Well, that's the inverse.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 05:10 PM   #1556
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The problem is you let people decide about issues they don't have good knowledge about, instead of the people who actually went to university to become an expert. Which means you get decisions based on hypes and mass-media hysteria. How often don't you read about truck avalanches while the truck volumes are in fact proven to be very low?

If this referendum didn't pass 20 years ago, the second tube would have likely been built after the major tunnel fires in 1999 and 2001 in the Alps, just like most Austrian tunnels have been twinned. Why? because experts know it's necessary.

I hate politics in general, I can't watch any political debate for more than a few minutes, the amount of nonsense thrown in by politicians knowing squat about the topic is mind-boggling.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 05:24 PM   #1557
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If this referendum didn't pass 20 years ago, the second tube would have likely been built after the major tunnel fires in 1999 and 2001 in the Alps, just like most Austrian tunnels have been twinned.
I doubt that, in Switzerland nearly every project is preceeded by 10-20-30 years of discussions. In addition the Gotthard tunnel in the list of congestion prone motorways I published some time ago is classified in the second group (out of three), with the side note of "seasonal problems". In other words, a second tunnel would not have been built before 2020-2030 anyway, after all projects of the first and second groups.
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Old January 15th, 2012, 08:33 PM   #1558
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
If this referendum didn't pass 20 years ago, the second tube would have likely been built after the major tunnel fires in 1999 and 2001 in the Alps, just like most Austrian tunnels have been twinned. Why? because experts know it's necessary.
The Avanti initiative was rejected 2004 after those fires.

Quote:
And while having or not nuclear doesn't affect other countries, highways yes.
I suppose you were born after Chernobyl?
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Old January 15th, 2012, 08:53 PM   #1559
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You're not arguing about the Gotthard Tunnel again?
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Old January 15th, 2012, 08:56 PM   #1560
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The Avanti initiative was rejected 2004 after those fires.
The Avanti initiative also included the widening of A1 Genève-Lausanne and Bern-Zürich.
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