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Old March 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM   #1641
Coccodrillo
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Only if it is built (which is not sure, but if not now, then it would probably not be before 2060) and if the law is cancelled or modified by referendum (wich is possible, at least as a sort of shoulder running. However this law may delay or forbid the second tunnel, a tunnel not only environmentalist don't want, but also people waiting funding for other projects.

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2025 fleet will be extremely clean, any Euro-1 or Euro-2 will be gone.
2035

(if it is built)
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Old March 14th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #1642
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Horrible accident on Swiss roads:
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Switzerland bus crash kills 28, including 22 children


At least 28 people - including 22 children - have been killed in a bus crash in Switzerland, police say.

Another 24 children were injured in the accident in the canton of Valais, near the border with Italy.

The bus - which was returning to Belgium - crashed into the wall of a tunnel. Both its drivers were killed.

The children from the Belgian villages of Lommel and Heverlee were returning home after a skiing holiday. There were 52 people on the bus.

The bus crashed near the town of Sierre shortly after 21:00 (20:00 GMT) on Tuesday.

Two classes of schoolchildren from the Flemish-speaking part of Belgium were travelling home after spending a week skiing in Val d'Anniviers, in the Swiss Alps.
more on BBC
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:06 AM   #1643
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Sad news. I wonder how it happened. The tunnel is right where A9 starts, and where the Val d'Anniviers ends, so they couldn't have been more than half an hour on the road, so that could rule out driver's fatigue.

It must've happened in this tunnel (as it is the only motorway tunnel in the Sierre area)
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #1644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Sad news. I wonder how it happened. The tunnel is right where A9 starts, and where the Val d'Anniviers ends, so they couldn't have been more than half an hour on the road, so that could rule out driver's fatigue.

It must've happened in this tunnel (as it is the only motorway tunnel in the Sierre area)
Chris you might be right. The beginning of the tunnel (i mean entrance) looks safe and well protected with the barriers.



If you take look on this picture you'll see propable place of impact. This green wall is scratched all over it's surface. It looks like these scratches has been done by the bus.

I also wonder if there were seatbelts in this bus and if not, would it make a difference if they were?

It reminds me crash of the polish coach on the Berliner Ring. Then the coach was'n destroyed so much as belgian one, but number of fatalities was also very high. It was said that lack of seatbelts caused such a lot of deaths.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #1645
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An article on Corriere della Sera stated that the autobus had seatbelts, but the new version online now does not mention them.
http://www.corriere.it/esteri/12_mar...cd669a01.shtml

EDIT: Ah, no, I was wrong, the BBC article stated that the bus was equipped with seatbelts.

EDIT2: La Repubblica posted a map:
http://video.repubblica.it/mondo/svi...gi/90343/88736
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Old March 14th, 2012, 12:03 PM   #1646
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When I first read it I thought it would have been another tunnel fire.

Bus highway crashes can be very serious:

1) drivers rarely enforces use of seatbelts, even if they are present

2) seats have much more lax requirements in terms of being attached to the frame of the vehicles compared to cars

As a result, people just pile up.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 01:00 PM   #1647
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I didn't even know there were buses with seatbelts. Never saw one.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 01:48 PM   #1648
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Judging by this picture it indeed did hit the green part.. i assume that the bus was sliding on "normal" wall and that this service (?) area was unfortunately on its way..

Its hard to tell..
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Old March 14th, 2012, 01:52 PM   #1649
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Apparently the bus first hit or ricochet off the left wall, then crashed into the SOS bay wall.

I wonder if they will change the designs. A wall like this goes against any obstruction-free zone designs, and needs to be fended off by guardrails, just like overhead gantries or bridge pylons near the road are fended off by guardrails or barriers.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #1650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I didn't even know there were buses with seatbelts. Never saw one.
They've been compulsory in Europe since 2006.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:23 PM   #1651
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Quote:
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They've been compulsory in Europe since 2006.
Really? but which ones, only the international? Because I'm pretty sure all the buses I've taken since 2006 had no seatbelts.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #1652
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Quote:
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They've been compulsory in Europe since 2006.
In fact, the seat belts are mandatory in M3 class buses made after October 1999, except in the city buses.

Using the seat belts, if any, has been mandatory by EU since 2006.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:45 PM   #1653
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I guess this accident will reshape the design requirements on the sos tunnel areas, instead of ending the sos in a solid wall corner, the road should gradually return to its original width. The bus would just grind on the wall till the full stop in such a case.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #1654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
In fact, the seat belts are mandatory in M3 class buses made after October 1999, except in the city buses.

Using the seat belts, if any, has been mandatory by EU since 2006.
These requirements are largely disregarded, here in southern europe.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #1655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
These requirements are largely disregarded, here in southern europe.
Even when the buses have seat belts, many operators just tuck them onto the seat to increase comfort arguing "nobody uses them".

Buses are inherent dangerous vehicles as they are operated. I really don't understand why road authorities don't crack upon bus seat belt use, or why on earth are city buses allowed to transport standing passengers sometimes on expressways or even highways where they get far over 50km/h.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:56 PM   #1656
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I recorded this tunnel in 2010, here's a real-time version so you can see the walls of the SOS bays.

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Old March 14th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #1657
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It isn't the square tunnel you posted before, is it? Or is it just the other entrance?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 04:06 PM   #1658
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It's the other entrance, the east entrance has that squarish design, the west end is a round tube. Both tubes are identical in design.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 04:25 PM   #1659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
These requirements are largely disregarded, here in southern europe.
I can imagine that. The attitude to the EU regulations is rather different in the Scandinavian countries and in the Africa south of Alps.

As the directive states "passengers in M2 and M3 vehicles shall be informed of the requirement to wear safety belts whenever they are seated and the vehicle is in motion", that really happens here as a routine in long-haul buses.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 04:48 PM   #1660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
I can imagine that. The attitude to the EU regulations is rather different in the Scandinavian countries and in the Africa south of Alps.
This is offensive.
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