daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 14th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #1661
SpicyMcHaggis
Registered User
 
SpicyMcHaggis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,958
Likes (Received): 1795

Yet true..

I've never, ever been told to use seat belt in the bus.

Last edited by SpicyMcHaggis; July 27th, 2012 at 06:04 PM.
SpicyMcHaggis no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 14th, 2012, 05:01 PM   #1662
CrazySerb
Vuk sa Ontarija
 
CrazySerb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 19,748
Likes (Received): 7674

Terrible tragedy...my condolences to the families
CrazySerb no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2012, 07:11 PM   #1663
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Poor children. How old is this tunnel? I don't think I've ever driven through it.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2012, 08:06 PM   #1664
takisobiektoś
Registered User
 
takisobiektoś's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wrocław- -Breslau
Posts: 4,955
Likes (Received): 17407

I'm in shock. condolences to the families of victims
__________________
Pozostaje to tajemnicą i tragedią historii ,
że Polacy to naród najdzielniejszy pośród dzielnych ,
prowadzony przez najpodlejszych wśród podłych.
Winston Churchill

Last edited by takisobiektoś; March 15th, 2012 at 11:34 PM.
takisobiektoś está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2012, 08:48 PM   #1665
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Poor children. How old is this tunnel? I don't think I've ever driven through it.
It was constructed in 1999.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2012, 10:12 PM   #1666
Rebasepoiss
Registered User
 
Rebasepoiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 5,818
Likes (Received): 1819

When visiting the UK in 2007 we used a local tour bus there. I remember that the use of seat belts on the bus was quite heavily enforced. There were seat belt stickers on all the windows of all the tour buses I saw (literally) and the bus driver himself asked the passengers to fasten the seat belt.
Rebasepoiss no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #1667
Verso
Islander
 
Verso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ljubljana
Posts: 22,087
Likes (Received): 4749

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
It was constructed in 1999.
Then I've driven through it (several times). I know A9 ends by Sierre, but I thought the tunnel (bypass) was constructed later. But then, I don't remember having ever driven through the town.
Verso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #1668
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

According to a local TV news program the bus ahd seat belts and the people on board wore them (maybe not all, as most were children difficult to control). But the seats themselves apaprently didn't resist the crash detaching themselves from the bus' floor.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #1669
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

Not much can save you if you crash dead into a concrete wall.

As I said before, maybe this gives rise to a change of SOS bay design. These walls perpendicular to the driving lanes at less than 2 meters should be considered obstacles and fended off with either a sloping design or guard rails that do that. So instead of a 90 degree wall, they could do a 20 - 30 degree wall, so the bus doesn't disintegrate on impact like happened here.

It's also just bad luck. These SOS bays are maybe every 300 - 400 m, so the chance of hitting one dead on is quite remote.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2012, 11:10 PM   #1670
earthJoker
Ölm
 
earthJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,806
Likes (Received): 1988

While I agree that a 30° or even 45° degree corner would be much better, I think it is very complicated to change such a thing into a tunnel after hand. Anyway I am not sure if this had helped in this case. So far most sources say the bus first hit the opposite side of the tunnel an bounced back from there. So it could be that even a 45° wall would result in a near to frontal crash. Guard rails don't help that much either when a bus or truck hits them.
__________________
Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?

See you in the Swiss Forum on skyscrapercity.com
earthJoker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2012, 11:36 PM   #1671
devo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 221
Likes (Received): 41

:/

I have yet to see a recently constructed (20-30 year old) norwegian tunnel with a 90˚ wall. It's at most 45˚. At least all new motorways are built this way. That being said, we had a similar accident in Norway (1988) where a bus hit the side wall due to a brake fault. 16 people, 12 children, lost their life. These are terrible and unnecessary accidents, and I hope the real issue with this accident is properly addressed.
devo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 01:32 AM   #1672
Fargo Wolf
Resident Smartass.
 
Fargo Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Port Kepler, Galilei Continent, Chakona
Posts: 685
Likes (Received): 17

The crash occurred at one of the breakdown bays in the tunnel from what I've heard on the news here. It appears the bus may have drifted into the bay and collided with the wall at the end of it, as it's 90 degrees to the direction of travel.

Google Street view example form the tunnel, but going the opposite direction:
http://maps.google.ca/?ll=46.28311,7...,85.99,,2,2.52
__________________
Resident Rouge/Assasin who is a flag wolfess on the side and would love to live in the Netherlands.
Fargo Wolf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 08:00 PM   #1673
Satyricon84
Ice Road Metaller
 
Satyricon84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Monza
Posts: 2,724
Likes (Received): 110

This is what probabily happened in that tunnel
Satyricon84 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #1674
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,488
Likes (Received): 2102

According to italian newspaper "Il Corriere della sera", surviving children stated that the driver was meddling with the dvd player.
http://www.corriere.it/esteri/12_mar...09a51954.shtml
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #1675
earthJoker
Ölm
 
earthJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,806
Likes (Received): 1988

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
As I said before, maybe this gives rise to a change of SOS bay design. These walls perpendicular to the driving lanes at less than 2 meters should be considered obstacles and fended off with either a sloping design or guard rails that do that. So instead of a 90 degree wall, they could do a 20 - 30 degree wall, so the bus doesn't disintegrate on impact like happened here.
The federal government is now investigating the shape if the SOS bay. According to the news there were guard rails attached there. Maybe you can try to make a capture from the video without the text at the bottom so we can see how they looked like?
It is unbelievable how much bad luck was involved here, already the chance that the bus hits exactly at that position. But also that a tunnel built after 2004 would have a different design.
__________________
Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?

See you in the Swiss Forum on skyscrapercity.com
earthJoker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 09:30 PM   #1676
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,592
Likes (Received): 19383

Google also went through the tunnel. There appear to be some guardrails, but very short ones, not likely to deflect an incoming bus (or a truck for that matter).

ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 09:37 PM   #1677
earthJoker
Ölm
 
earthJoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,806
Likes (Received): 1988

Here is a more similar one, from the tube in the opposite direction:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=46.284875...93.56,,0,27.95

This is a general problem of guard rails, they are optimized for cars, and don't work well for trucks, they are also very dangerous to motorcyclists.
__________________
Is that you, John Wayne? Is this me?

See you in the Swiss Forum on skyscrapercity.com
earthJoker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 11:46 PM   #1678
petertenthije
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 2

Dutch media is reporting that some of the suriving kids mentioned to their parents and the autorities that the driver was changing a CD or DVD just seconds prior to the accident.
petertenthije no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2012, 11:55 PM   #1679
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,488
Likes (Received): 2102

That's exactly what I wrote 3 hours ago.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2012, 01:49 AM   #1680
Morjo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,020
Likes (Received): 49

Likes most people I thought either a distraction or medical.

The bus driver should've known better then to change CD's whilst driving, especially with the responsibility they had
Morjo no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
schweiz

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium