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Old March 16th, 2012, 06:27 AM   #1681
Corvinus
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That "driver inserted DVD" was nothing more than mere speculation only! Passengers could not have observed it since drivers were not visible from their position. Also, the driver's colleague sat next to him, so it appears unlikely that the actual driver himself had to play around with gadgets while driving.

http://www.lematin.ch/faits-divers/L...story/19384988

Quote:
La cabine des chauffeurs se trouve au niveau de la route tandis que les passagers sont tous surélevés. « Il est dès lors impossible qu'un enfant ait vu le chauffeur manipuler un DVD ou un autre objet », a indiqué la direction de Toptours.

Tom Cooremans ne comprendrait pas non plus pourquoi, alors que les chauffeurs sont deux dans la cabine, le conducteur du bus aurait mis lui-même un DVD dans le lecteur. Ce lecteur se situe à hauteur de la tête du chauffeur, directement sur la droite, dans le modèle d'autocar en question.[...]
La police valaisanne a aussi qualifié l'hypothèse du DVD de «spéculation».
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Old March 16th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #1682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvinus View Post
That "driver inserted DVD" was nothing more than mere speculation only! Passengers could not have observed it since drivers were not visible from their position.
That proves nothing. Children couldn't see the driver using the DVD player, but could see the DVD player being activated, just looking at the screen.

As for the colleague, I don't know.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #1683
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An article on Tunneltalk: http://tunneltalk.com/Fire-safety-Ma...es-28-dead.php
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Old March 16th, 2012, 04:07 PM   #1684
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The DVD change story seems a bit unplausible to me. It's far more likely the co-driver was changing a DVD, if it was changed at all. I mean, they're 12-year old kids who just went through severe emotional and physical trauma that could easily cloud anyone's judgment.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #1685
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I think that's very plausible, instead. The driver doing stupid things and the bus company trying to cover it up to save its *ss. Not unplausible at all. And the kids were kids, but not retards. Why should they invent (all of them) that the driver was meddling with DVD controls while he was not?

I'm with the kids.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #1686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I think that's very plausible, instead. The driver doing stupid things and the bus company trying to cover it up to save its *ss. Not unplausible at all. And the kids were kids, but not retards. Why should they invent (all of them) that the driver was meddling with DVD controls while he was not?

I'm with the kids.
The drive cabin is at the level of the street, while passengers are upper level. Being that children that survived were set in the bottom of the bus and the crash happened in the night with dark, it's pretty difficult that they could see what the driver was doing
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Old March 16th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #1687
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Anyone close enough to see the bus driver working on a DVD player did not survive the accident. It's well possible that the co-driver, or even the team leaders were doing something with the DVD.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 05:37 PM   #1688
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I don't say it's true. I was not there after all. I just say it's plausible and I wouldn't be surprised if they find out that's the case.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #1689
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If anyone wants input on what children are capable of remembering during interrogation, watch the documentary "Capturing the Freedmans"

Anyway, it was most likely the tunnel design that caused the accident to become as fatal as it turned out to be. I cannot believe that no-one objected to those walls when the tunnel was designed.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #1690
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Even before the Mont Blanc disaster nobody thought to tunnel safety, but since then a (sort of) safety tunnel has been constructed in the Mont Blanc tunnel, is under construction at the Fréjus, Arlberg, Great Saint Bernhard and many more, and the Katschberg and Tauern tunnels have been doubled (the Gotthard road tunnel has a safety tunnel since the opening).
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Old March 16th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #1691
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This accident has nothing to do with the major concerns of road tunnels - fire.

I'm sure they will look into service bays more closely now.
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Old March 16th, 2012, 10:49 PM   #1692
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I know. I was replying to this point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
I cannot believe that no-one objected to those walls when the tunnel was designed.
It's evident that the 90° walls of bays in tunnels are/were not considered a problem as most if not all tunnels in Europe have them like that, just like it wasn't considered a problem having long road tunnels without parallel saferty tunnels. And just like after the Mont Blanc fire safety tunnels became basically mandatory, after this accident the bays in the future tunnels all over Europe may be designed differently.
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Old March 17th, 2012, 11:32 AM   #1693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
This accident has nothing to do with the major concerns of road tunnels - fire.
Actually it has, the design of the SOS bays have to consider the risk of fires:
Quote:
(...)Wir werden das nun zuverlässig und rasch erarbeiten, wobei wir gerne auch auf die Überlegungen der deutschen Kollegen zurückgreifen. Aber man muss auch behutsam vorgehen. Wenn wir Fahrzeuge mit grossen Energien abweisen, besteht die grosse Gefahr, dass sie im Tunnel umhergeschleudert werden, sich überschlagen und durch die Reibung und Funkenbildung ein Brand entsteht. Auch diese Erfahrungen haben wir leider schon gemacht.
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/panorama...ossier_id=1370
Translation:
Quote:
(...)We will now develop the reliable and fast, but we also like to draw on the ideas of the German colleagues. But we also must proceed with caution. If we repulse vehicles with great energy, there is great danger that they will be thrown around in the tunnel, turn over and is caused by the friction and sparking a fire. These experiences we have unfortunately been made​​.
To summarize, this expert says that if the wall would have been 45° the bus could have bounced of and turn over, and result in a fire. One could only imagine what would have happened then.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 05:48 PM   #1694
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Google RailView: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Pontres...01.99,,0,-4.61 (here on a road, to remain on-topic)
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 06:52 PM   #1695
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Great stuff. But that's in Italy, not Switzerland.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:14 PM   #1696
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Yep. I think they filmed all the way from Chur, but for some legal reason GSV doesn't have imagery of Swiss territory.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:27 PM   #1697
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This particular point is in Italy, but most of the line (156 km out of 160) is in Switzerland, and I wanted to show one of the street running sections.

The rest on the line is still being uploaded, although some short sections near Pontresina and Poschiavo are already available.

There are other street running sections in Switzerland, like this shared bridge: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Pontres...id=po-24514960

Or there: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Pontres...id=po-11489876

And on the nearby Chur-Arosa line: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Pontres...id=po-35669239
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:32 PM   #1698
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Arosa by car is an exhausting drive.
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 07:40 PM   #1699
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What can you tell me about these roads?
I plan to stay 3 days in Wil (6-9 April), but also to visit Zurich and Sankt Gallen, and maybe other interesting places if there are (recommendations?).
I don't know if it's worth to buy the vignette just for this, maybe the normal roads are more scenic?

Road to Wil and Zurich --> http://g.co/maps/hqzxn
Road to Sankt Gallen --> http://g.co/maps/de3xj
Road back home through Liechtenstein http://g.co/maps/xz82t
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Old March 23rd, 2012, 10:34 PM   #1700
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You miight consider one of these routes from Wil to Zürich:
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Br...via=2&t=m&z=11

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Br...via=2&t=m&z=10

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Br...via=2&t=m&z=11
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