daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old March 24th, 2012, 09:22 AM   #1701
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

The idea of heavy trains circulated in streets, without a fence, is hideous, third World and antiquated. I truly hope the Italians someday turn the heat on that private railway so that they pay for grade-separation, or a new station north of Tirano couple kms.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old March 24th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #1702
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767



(by the way, the trains running on street are themselves a tourist attraction of Tirano)
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 11:50 AM   #1703
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

That it happens elsewhere doesn't make it right!

Trains should always run on segregated ROWs, ALL crossings should be fenced or gated.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 12:24 PM   #1704
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,502
Likes (Received): 2111

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That it happens elsewhere doesn't make it right!

Trains should always run on segregated ROWs, ALL crossings should be fenced or gated.
I agree. But I saw a lot of unfenced railroad crossings in Austria too. I don't wont to minimize, it's just to say that it isn't just Italy.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 12:27 PM   #1705
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I agree. But I saw a lot of unfenced railroad crossings in Austria too. I don't wont to minimize, it's just to say that it isn't just Italy.
I've seen some of those abominations in Spain and Germany as well.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 01:19 PM   #1706
italystf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,457
Likes (Received): 2185

In the part of Italy where I live all rail crossings are controlled with fences that close when a train approach, even those on agricultural dirt roads. I remember seeing uncontrolled rail crossings along San Severo - Peschici railway in Apulia.
__________________
“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
italystf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #1707
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,502
Likes (Received): 2111

I must admit I never saw an unprotected railway crossing in Italy, and I travelled it quite a lot, so it mustn't be very common. First unprotected crossing I ever say was near the German-Austrian border near Mittenwald.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #1708
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I must admit I never saw an unprotected railway crossing in Italy,
It's way off topic, I'll copy your post and answer in the Italian thread
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 04:59 PM   #1709
KingNick
Make Wu'bar Great Again
 
KingNick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,038
Likes (Received): 8713

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That it happens elsewhere doesn't make it right!

Trains should always run on segregated ROWs, ALL crossings should be fenced or gated.
Why? Because you and your safety neurosis to provide every traffic participant with it's own way say so?

If you look at the video, I see no way how anybody could be endangered by this train. Hell, it's big, loud and slow. If you get run over by a train like that, it was for the gene pools sake. Every single car on the street is a bigger safety threat.

I just consider it tremendously stupid operational wise.
KingNick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 05:43 PM   #1710
g.spinoza
Lord Kelvin
 
g.spinoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Torino
Posts: 9,502
Likes (Received): 2111

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
If you get run over by a train like that, it was for the gene pools sake. Every single car on the street is a bigger safety threat.

I just consider it tremendously stupid operational wise.
THis makes no sense. The world is not "survival of the fittest", but "protection of the weakest". We're no apes anymore, in case you haven't noticed.
g.spinoza está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #1711
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingNick View Post
Why? Because you and your safety neurosis to provide every traffic participant with it's own way say so?

If you look at the video, I see no way how anybody could be endangered by this train. Hell, it's big, loud and slow. If you get run over by a train like that, it was for the gene pools sake. Every single car on the street is a bigger safety threat.

I just consider it tremendously stupid operational wise.
In that case, we should just abolish all guard-rails on Swiss highways altogether. If you drive into a cliff, it is for the betterment of the gene pool.

Moreover, why bother with seat belts? If everyone drives safely, no one needs to worry about crashing.

And why not let some child play right in a highway shoulder? If they run on traffic, good riddance, one less irresponsible adult in the future!

Trains don't belong on open streets like big trucks don't belong in a residential back lane or cars don't belong in a pedestrian-only plaza....
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #1712
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

It's a pointless discussion. When these railways were built both road and rail traffic were low. A lot of local railways in Europe and North America were built like this, although most of them were closed in the 60s (except in Switzerland, where most are still in use). No new railways are being built on roads, and the existing ones are put on a separate alignment when traffic justifies it. If not, then they could well continue to run on roads forever.

Another example in Lausanne, where a tunnel is planned: http://maps.google.ch/maps?q=Lausann...158.89,,0,-1.5

Many other street running sections in Switzerland are being or have been replaced by tunnels, new alignments or tramways. While where traffic is not enough street running will remain, like in Chur where the railway has recently been doubled (to better follow road flow, instead of running in the middle of the road) instead of put underground.

In the case of Oakland a new railway alignment would be better especially for trains, but it costs.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2012, 12:57 AM   #1713
geor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Osijek-Croatia
Posts: 657
Likes (Received): 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by earthJoker View Post
While I agree that a 30° or even 45° degree corner would be much better, I think it is very complicated to change such a thing into a tunnel after hand. Anyway I am not sure if this had helped in this case. So far most sources say the bus first hit the opposite side of the tunnel an bounced back from there. So it could be that even a 45° wall would result in a near to frontal crash. Guard rails don't help that much either when a bus or truck hits them.
It is well known that every crash with concrete obstacles and degree more than 20° could be fatal and is not acceptable because of high THIV and ASI index. Impact under those circumstances is not tolerable by human’s organs (brain). The last tunnels’ testing by Euro Tap program didn’t cover physical obstacles like lay bays in front and inside tunnels. IMO it was very big failure as it can be very dangerous part, even more dangerous than some systems that was inspected in tests.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
geor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old March 29th, 2012, 02:00 PM   #1714
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,604
Likes (Received): 19391

2011 recorded 320 traffic fatalities in Switzerland, down 2% compared to 2010.

By traffic user;

* car drivers/passengers: 119
* pedestrians: 69
* motorcyclists: 68
* bicyclists: 39
* others: 23
* bus driver/passenger: 1
* truck driver: 1

By road type

* main road: 167
* secondary road: 102
* motorway: 22
* expressway: 15
* terrain: 2
* other: 12
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old March 30th, 2012, 07:27 PM   #1715
rower2000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Zurich [CH], formerly Bregenz [A]
Posts: 341
Likes (Received): 91

After the accident on Austrian A13 last week where a failing support wall killed a truck driver, a similar accident happened last night in the Lower Engadin, Graubünden. A landslide buried a bus and killed the driver. Fortunately, the bus was empty beside the driver.

Source in German.
rower2000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 3rd, 2012, 11:22 AM   #1716
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

Planned opening dates for road passes:
27th April Oberalp
23rd May Gotthard
1st June Klausen
1st June Furka
22nd June Susten
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 3rd, 2012, 12:59 PM   #1717
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,534
Likes (Received): 21241

omg why is it going to take so long to open sustenpaß? too much snow this year?

another question: now they have cancelled the car shuttle under Abulapaß, are they planning to improve road connections to St. Moritz, as in more snow clearing etc?
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 3rd, 2012, 01:22 PM   #1718
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

I don't know about plans for the Julierpass road, except that it will be handed over to the federal government in a few years (together with others like the A20 Neuchâtel-La Chaux de Fonds-Le Locle or the N6 Lötschberg road).

What is sure is that the Albula shuttle has lost a lot of traffic since the opening of the Vereina shuttle.
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2012, 10:33 AM   #1719
Coccodrillo
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 7,200
Likes (Received): 767

The Furka railway is being cleared from snow: http://www.dfb.ch/index.php?id=474#c1855

(there are a few pictures of the road, too)
__________________
1.6.2016: Basistunnel!

für Güter die Bahn ~ pour vos marchandises le rail ~ chi dice merci dice ferrovia
Coccodrillo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 17th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #1720
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,236
Likes (Received): 18302

I will post some pictures from my recent trip in this beautiful country. I stayed 3 nights, and drove in 4 days through the wonderful landscapes. I didn't use any motorway, drove only Landstrassen, spared the 33€, but enjoyed beautiful views .

I will start with day 1, Zollamt Bietingen/Thayngen - Wil: http://g.co/maps/cf8hr

image hosted on flickr

P1080362 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - E41/E54 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - E41/E54 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - E41/E54 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - E41/E54 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - E41/E54 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - E41/E54 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - E41/E54 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - E41/E54 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - E41/E54 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - Schaffhausen by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - Schaffhausen by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - Schaffhausen by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - Schaffhausen by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

CH - Schaffhausen by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

P1080420 by cinxxx, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

P1080421 by cinxxx, on Flickr
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
schweiz

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium