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Old September 1st, 2012, 07:35 PM   #1961
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New snow on the mountains here as well, but I think it will all be gone again by next week.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 09:40 PM   #1962
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A2 Airolo-Bellinzona











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Old September 1st, 2012, 09:53 PM   #1963
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I drove there 5 weeks ago
Before I could drive to Lugano I was in a traffic jam near the Gotthardtunnel on a Thursday.
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Old September 1st, 2012, 09:56 PM   #1964
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I drive almost every year to Switzerland but never take the route thru the Gotthard tunnel.We drive over the Grimsel and Nufenenpass and get at Airolo on the motorway
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Old September 1st, 2012, 11:49 PM   #1965
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Is the CH government planned to do a second Gotthard tunnel to avoid traffic jams ?
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 12:08 AM   #1966
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a second Gotthard tunnel
Yes

Quote:
to avoid traffic jams ?
No
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 12:23 AM   #1967
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Dam,when you have the luck to drive thru Switzerland then take the national roads and forget the motorways
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 03:07 AM   #1968
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Yes
We'll see, there's a lot of opposition against that project and a lot people tired of spending so much money on a single corridor when other parts of the country they too suffer congestions.

Expect a referendum on the issue against the decision of the federal council, and it would likely fail (almost 80% opposition on latest poll)
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 03:19 AM   #1969
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How many holes they want to dig into the Gotthardmassiv?Maybe it would make more sense to build up the San Bernardino route or finaly build a road where the Lötschberg Verlade is.When you "modernise" the Gotthard over and over again you invite people to drive there
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 03:25 AM   #1970
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How many holes they want to dig into the Gotthardmassiv?Maybe it would make more sense to build up the San Bernardino route or finaly build a road where the Lötschberg Verlade is.When you "modernise" the Gotthard over and over again you invite people to drive there
This has been talked before in this same section.

The swiss people voted to ban all increases in transit-road capacity in the alps, it's a principle enshrined in the constitution.

The Gotthard needs to be refurbished, what the federal council has proposed is to build a second tube, but leave both tunnels with a single line so that capacity won't be increased, but many don't trust the service lane wouldn't be used in periods of high congestions.

Sorry only in french:

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Art. 84 Transit alpin

1 La Confédération protčge les régions alpines contre les effets négatifs du trafic de transit. Elle limite les nuisances causées par le trafic de transit afin qu’elles ne portent pas atteinte aux ętres humains, aux animaux, aux plantes, ni ŕ leurs espaces vitaux.

2 Le trafic de marchandises ŕ travers la Suisse sur les axes alpins s’effectue par rail. Le Conseil fédéral prend les mesures nécessaires. Les dérogations ne sont accordées que si elles sont inévitables. Elles doivent ętre précisées dans une loi.

3 La capacité des routes de transit des régions alpines ne peut ętre augmentée. Les routes de contournement qui déchargent les localités du trafic de transit ne sont pas soumises ŕ cette disposition.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 10:41 AM   #1971
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This has been talked before in this same section.

The swiss people voted to ban all increases in transit-road capacity in the alps, it's a principle enshrined in the constitution.
Looks like Amish Luddism to me.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 12:43 PM   #1972
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How many holes they want to dig into the Gotthardmassiv?Maybe it would make more sense to build up the San Bernardino route or finaly build a road where the Lötschberg Verlade is.When you "modernise" the Gotthard over and over again you invite people to drive there
The Gotthardroute ´only´ requires a second tube at the main tunnel. Upgrading the San Bernardinoroute is way more difficult, since the landscape is much steeper there. You´ll need a complete allignment, since the current route is very curvy. I doubt if it´s even possible to build a full motorway there, without very long tunnels.

With a second Gotthardtube the route will have enough capacity for the next decades. Sure it will attract some extra traffic that used to drive over the passes, but isn´t that why motorways are being built?

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Old September 2nd, 2012, 02:32 PM   #1973
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This "build but with no increase in capacity" makes zero sense to me. In my opinion folks need to decide - either build it and have 4 lanes going through resulting in less congestion or don't build it thus saving money and encouraging more people to use trains/other routes. What they are proposing now is wasting money with very little long term gain for anyone...
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 04:32 PM   #1974
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Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
This "build but with no increase in capacity" makes zero sense to me. In my opinion folks need to decide - either build it and have 4 lanes going through resulting in less congestion or don't build it thus saving money and encouraging more people to use trains/other routes. What they are proposing now is wasting money with very little long term gain for anyone...
The discussion about a second tube only came up in recent years because the roadtunnel has to be closed for a long period of time because of maintenance. One solution for this problem was to build a second tube before the maintenance to keep traffic flowing. If there was no maintenance upcoming for the current tube noone would be considering a second tube.
Other possible solutions are closing the tunnel only during summer when cars can go ove the pass or a trainshuttle through the Basetunnel which will open in 2017.
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 06:37 PM   #1975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
This "build but with no increase in capacity" makes zero sense to me. In my opinion folks need to decide - either build it and have 4 lanes going through resulting in less congestion or don't build it thus saving money and encouraging more people to use trains/other routes. What they are proposing now is wasting money with very little long term gain for anyone...
There would be a big increase in safety. Eleven people died a few years ago as a result of a head-on collision in the tunnel.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:11 AM   #1976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaud View Post
This has been talked before in this same section.

The swiss people voted to ban all increases in transit-road capacity in the alps, it's a principle enshrined in the constitution.
You know that the Alps are a wound/fracture right in the heart of Europe, you don't?

According to Google Maps there are only 4 possible roads to pass through the (Swiss) Alps:

• Great Saint Bernard Tunnel between Vallée D'Aoste (I) and Canton Valais (CH)
• Gotthard Tunnel between Ticino and Uri
• San Bernardino Tunnel within Graubünden
• Hauptstraße 27 within Graubünden

I think that those 4 alternatives should be improved instead of limiting them!
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:32 AM   #1977
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You forgot the Lötschberg-Simplon combination.Switzerland is a transit land and the real problem is that there is too much traffic at all,especialy far too many trucks transporting crap that easily colud be transportated by rail.the problem is not,or its just a part of the problem,to build new and better roads but to get the traffic of the road and use other ways of transport.many truck transport are completely usless anyway.how many trucks you have to send to transport 1.000 new cars,all that fits on one ship for example
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:33 AM   #1978
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,all that fits on one ship for example
Which is real useful in sea-surrounded Switzerland
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:43 AM   #1979
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According to Google Maps there are only 4 possible roads to pass through the (Swiss) Alps....
How about under the Alps? In the future, when tunnel boring will cost less than it does now, maybe the EU can bore a 250km tunnel under Austria and Switzerland to provide a rolling motorway connection between Milan and Munich. I'm thinking of something like the Eurotunnel Shuttle.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:47 AM   #1980
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Such connections already exist, and at the moment they are constructing another railroad tunnel through the Brenner. A RoRo train for trucks operates between Wörgl and Trento.
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