daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 14th, 2007, 12:59 PM   #1
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

MISC | Comparison of Railway Services in Europe

Being the sad loser that I am, I decided to spend several hours comparing rail services in different regions of western europe a few days ago using the various national rail websites, here are the results.

I’ve chosen a few selected journeys on the regular rail routes around Western Europe and looked at the various national rail websites to see timings, ticket prices (and ticket availability) to make a comparison of rail services.

The figures for each trip are

1, Distance between cities (from viamichelin.com)
2, Average time of best services (doesn’t include much slower or indirect services if there is a regular fast service)
3, Average speed
4, Cost for return ticket leaving next day (returning day after)
5, Cost for return ticket leaving in 7 days (returning day after)
6, Cost for return ticket leaving in 1 month (returning day after)
7, Average cost per 100km
8, Frequency of services
9, Number of changes required

All costs have been converted to € for comparison
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 14th, 2007, 12:59 PM   #2
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Region 1 – Germany

Trip 1: Hamburg-Dortmund

333 Km
2H55
114 km/h
€112
€90
€90
€14.59 / 100 Km
2 trains per hour
Direct, no changes

Trip 2: Stuttgart-Hannover

505 Km
3H51
131 km/h
€206
€118
€98
€13.93 / 100 Km
Hourly service
Direct, no changes

Trip 3: Nuremburg-Leipzig

272 Km
3H05
88 Km/h
€114
€58
€58
€14.20 / 100 Km
1-2 trains per hour
Direct or 1 change
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 01:00 PM   #3
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Region 2: France

Trip 1: Nantes-Bordeaux

408 Km
04H00
102 Km/h
€83.20
€83.20
€51.00
€8.88 / 100 Km
1 every 2-3 hours, less at weekends
Direct, no changes

Trip 2: Lyon-Montpellier

298 Km
01H55
157 Km/h
€95.00
€63.00
€52.00
€11.74 / 100 Km
1 train per hour
Direct, No changes

Trip 3: Paris-Cherbourg

352 Km
03H00
117 Km/h
€82.40
€80.20
€42.00
€9.69 / 100 Km
1 train per hour
Direct or 1 change
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 01:00 PM   #4
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Region 3: United Kingdom

Trip 1: Bournemouth-London

172 Km
02H00
94 Km/h
€64.63
€26.94
€26.94
€11.48 / 100 Km
3 trains per hour
Direct or 1 change

Trip 2: Bristol-Leeds

335 Km
03H35
93 Km/h
€122.35
€122.35
€106.74
€17.48 / 100 Km
2 trains per hour
Direct or 1 change

Trip 3: Manchester-Glasgow

345 Km
03H25
101 Km/h
€84.22
€63.31
€79.50
€10.97 / 100 Km
1 or 2 trains per hour
Direct or 1 change
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 01:01 PM   #5
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Region 4: Italy

Trip 1: Milano-Trieste

407 Km
04H18
95 Km/h
€68.20
€68.20
€68.20
€8.38 / 100 Km
1 per hour
1 change

Trip 2: Roma-Genova

488 Km
05H22
91 Km/h
€59.20
€59.20
€57.20
€6.00 / 100 Km
1 train per hour
Direct, no changes

Trip 3: Napoli-Bari

265 Km
04H00
66 Km/h
€60.80
€60.80
€60.80
€11.47 / 100 Km
1 train per 2 hours
1 change
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 01:02 PM   #6
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Region 5: Benelux

Trip 1 Rotterdam-Liege

188 Km
03H06
61 Km/h
€38.40
€64.00
€42.60
€12.85 / 100 Km
2 trains per hour
1 or 2 changes

Trip 2: Maastrict-Groningen

331 Km
04H25
75 Km/h
€71.00
€71.00
€71.00
€10.73 / 100 Km
2 trains per hour
1 or 2 changes

Trip 3: Luxembourg-Antwerp

247 Km
03H46
66 Km/h
€41.00
€41.00
€41.00
€8.30 / 100 Km
1 train per hour
1 change
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 01:02 PM   #7
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Region 6 – Spain & Portugal

Trip 1: Valencia-Madrid

365 Km
03H25
107 Km/h
€66.88
€66.88
€66.88
€9.16 / 100 Km
1 train per 1-2 hours
Direct, no changes

Trip 2: Barcelona-Bilbao

608Km
09H12
66 Km/h
€60.96
€60.96
€60.96
€5.02 / 100 Km
1 train per day
Direct, no changes

Trip 3: Lisboa-Oporto

320 Km
02H46
116 Km/h
€55.00
€55.00
€55.00
€8.59 / 100 Km
1 train per hour
Direct, no changes

Last edited by Jonesy55; August 14th, 2007 at 04:17 PM.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 01:03 PM   #8
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Region 7 – Scandinavia

Trip 1: Oslo-Malmo

570 Km
07H20
78 Km/h
€183.26
€174.25
€137.98
€14.49 / 100 Km
5 trains per day
1 change

Trip 2: Copenhagen-Aalborg

297 Km
04H40
64 Km/h
€90.58
€90.58
€90.58
€15.25 / 100 Km
1 train per hour
Direct, no changes

Trip 3: Stockholm-Gothenburg

469 Km
03H25
137 Km/h
€182.17
€125.11
€59.01
€13.02 / 100 Km
1 train per hour
Direct, no changes
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 01:27 PM   #9
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Of course these comparison don't tell you how comfortable the train is, how good the station facilities are or how reliable the services are but my general conclusions were:

Germany

+ Fast, frequent, comprehensive network
- More expensive than most

France

+ Fast, comprehensive network, good value
- trains not as frequent as some but overall probably the best network

UK

+ Comprehensive network, good frequency
- Speed reasonable but not great, expensive if not pre-booked

Italy

+ Cheap, good network especially in North, reasonably frequent services
- Speeds not great, Napoli-Bari especially slow

Benelux

+ Good frequency, very dense network, costs reasonable
- slow services

Spain & Portugal

+ Good value, fast services between some cities
- Not very frequent, poor or non-existent links between some major cities (eg Seville-Lisbon, Alicante-Malaga)

Scandinavia

+ Good fast service between Stockholm-Gothenburg, reasonable network in most populated areas of Denmark and Sweden.
- expensive, poor links to Norway, can be slow.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 03:30 PM   #10
DiggerD21
spaghetti polonaise
 
DiggerD21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hamburg, Wroclaw
Posts: 2,540
Likes (Received): 1355

Just a few days ago an italian from Milano complained that italian railways are expensive. I disagreed. And your comparison (while of course not representative) confirms my view of italian rail services being reasonably priced.

Have you taken the normal prices at the german railways or also special offers, if available (surf&rail, sparpreis 25, sparpreis 50, etc... Just too many tariffs!)
DiggerD21 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 04:15 PM   #11
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggerD21 View Post
Just a few days ago an italian from Milano complained that italian railways are expensive. I disagreed. And your comparison (while of course not representative) confirms my view of italian rail services being reasonably priced.

Have you taken the normal prices at the german railways or also special offers, if available (surf&rail, sparpreis 25, sparpreis 50, etc... Just too many tariffs!)
I took the best prices available for the particular day, for germany it was usually the full price for next day travel and sparpreis 25/50 for travel in one week or one month. Same goes for UK, France, Belgium and Sweden where advance tickets can be much cheaper. Interestingly the mediterranean countries, Denmark and the Netherlands seem to have far less variable pricing.

To me Italian railways seem quite good value.
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 04:18 PM   #12
eusebius
BANNED
 
eusebius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Trumpton-upon-Ravon
Posts: 7,710
Likes (Received): 12

From one sad loser to another: travelling from Rotterdam via Brussels to Liθges is quicker! 2:57

The busiest stations in NL:

Utrecht
Amsterdam
Rotterdam
The Hague
Arnhem
Den Bosch

perhaps not in that order but Utrecht is #1

The website for NL railways is reliable to the extent that in my case, I have a quicker connection than suggested on my way to Utrecht. That is because the station is under reconstruction and it's a wide margin used on the website.

I find regional rail in my country to be excellent. Like nighttrains in the weekend to my small town from Arnhem.

Just a week ago I saw a very critical report on Deutsche Bahn on German TV. Regional services in Germany are being cut in favour of high speed rail. A very nice little city like Hof in Bayern will lose its connection!
eusebius no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 04:25 PM   #13
eusebius
BANNED
 
eusebius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Trumpton-upon-Ravon
Posts: 7,710
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
I took the best prices available for the particular day, for germany it was usually the full price for next day travel and sparpreis 25/50 for travel in one week or one month. Same goes for UK, France, Belgium and Sweden where advance tickets can be much cheaper. Interestingly the mediterranean countries, Denmark and the Netherlands seem to have far less variable pricing.

To me Italian railways seem quite good value.
Pricing in NL is confusing because of the student cards for public transport. I used to have a year card which my boss paid for, 1. class but now I have a 40% discount after 9 in the morning.

Arnhem-Amsterdam is 102km, 1h00, €14, 40% discount > €8.40 + extra charge for the ICE (skips stations and goes faster) €2=€10.40
eusebius no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 04:37 PM   #14
eusebius
BANNED
 
eusebius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Trumpton-upon-Ravon
Posts: 7,710
Likes (Received): 12

And I forgot, it's even trickier in the NL: income tax over that year card! Tax benefits too. Too complicated to go into detail really. Good for employment at the tax offices
eusebius no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 04:47 PM   #15
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

How much do you have to pay for the discount card?

We have cards in the UK costing £20 for a year that give 33% off fares but you can only get them if you are under 26 or over 60.

There's also a family railcard for £20 that gives 33% off adult fares and 60% off (already half price) child fares but only when a child travels so you can't use it for commuting unless you take the kids to work and lock them in a cupboard!

I didn't include any reductions using cards like these because it would have been just too complicated!
Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 04:56 PM   #16
dennol
...
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Eindhoven
Posts: 2,557
Likes (Received): 141

Quote:
Originally Posted by eusebius View Post
The busiest stations in NL:

Utrecht
Amsterdam
Rotterdam
The Hague
Arnhem
Den Bosch
Leiden and Eindhoven are busier than Arnhem and Den Bosch.
dennol no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 04:59 PM   #17
Yardmaster
Registered Melbourne
 
Yardmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,152
Likes (Received): 198

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
Of course these comparison don't tell you how comfortable the train is, how good the station facilities are or how reliable the services are but my general conclusions were:

Germany

+ Fast, frequent, comprehensive network
- More expensive than most

France

+ Fast, comprehensive network, good value
- trains not as frequent as some but overall probably the best network

UK

+ Comprehensive network, good frequency
- Speed reasonable but not great, expensive if not pre-booked

Italy

+ Cheap, good network especially in North, reasonably frequent services
- Speeds not great, Napoli-Bari especially slow

Benelux

+ Good frequency, very dense network, costs reasonable
- slow services

Spain & Portugal

+ Good value, fast services between some cities
- Not very frequent, poor or non-existent links between some major cities (eg Seville-Lisbon, Alicante-Malaga)

Scandinavia

+ Good fast service between Stockholm-Gothenburg, reasonable network in most populated areas of Denmark and Sweden.
- expensive, poor links to Norway, can be slow.
Good job! Appreciated!
Yardmaster no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 05:03 PM   #18
Jonesy55
Mooderator
 
Jonesy55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Floreat Salopia
Posts: 14,205
Likes (Received): 20288

Tickets are very complicated, on my commuting route Shrewsbury-Birmingham (80Km, 50-70 mins) there are no advance booking discounts because the route isn't long enough but there are still multiple fares.

A single ticket is £9.80
An overnight return ticket is £12.20
A same day return ticket is £12.00 if you travel on peak trains
A same day return ticket is £9.90 if you travel off peak.

A weekly ticket is £38.50 (works out at £7.70 return based on 5 days)
A monthly ticket is £147.50 (about £7.38 return based on 20 days)
An annual ticket is £1,515 (about £6.31 return based on 240 days)

Jonesy55 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 06:53 PM   #19
eusebius
BANNED
 
eusebius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Trumpton-upon-Ravon
Posts: 7,710
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
How much do you have to pay for the discount card?

We have cards in the UK costing £20 for a year that give 33% off fares but you can only get them if you are under 26 or over 60.

There's also a family railcard for £20 that gives 33% off adult fares and 60% off (already half price) child fares but only when a child travels so you can't use it for commuting unless you take the kids to work and lock them in a cupboard!

I didn't include any reductions using cards like these because it would have been just too complicated!
Yes, it is complicated, and changes all of the time with railway companies offering new types of discounts. This after 9 in the morning year card is €49, no age limit. It's being integrated into one Public Transport chipcard which still has teething problems. I have that card already but can only use it in trains. No age limit. It used to be a museum year card as well but the crooks cancelled that! There's a fair offer on trips abroad for little money but not as cheap as the 'promotions' you'll find on he SNCF Voyages website.

It pays off to compare NS, NMBS, SNCF, DB etc websites for cross-border trips.

The seniors get a number of days of free travel in NL - always a warning to the others: grey haired masses ahead
eusebius no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2007, 06:55 PM   #20
eusebius
BANNED
 
eusebius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Trumpton-upon-Ravon
Posts: 7,710
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennol View Post
Leiden and Eindhoven are busier than Arnhem and Den Bosch.
I couldn't find your post on the NL forum so I was guessing. Thanks.
eusebius no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium